nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:KP has changed my entire mood regarding the Knicks. All I want is for him to stay healthy and continue to grow as a player. He's been such a revelation that even these tough losses are somewhat mitigated by his promise as a future franchise player. It's all about KP's development as well as our other young players. Phil will have many more upgrades to make to the roster. Soon enough we'll see what Phil can get done. Hopefully he surprises us with s great move.

I agree and i think everyone should agree that KP is a gigantic plus for us but i gotta say, i'm a little nervous about how long it could take to be a team ready to contend for deep playoff runs or championship runs cause we don't have the assets to make a big enough trade to get that next significant player in here unless we want that player bad enough to give up a future 1st round pick which most of us don't and we don't have any draft picks in this next draft and i don't really see us getting that big PG in the off season cause we're not getting Rondo or Conley and if we stay with this team we have now we'll only have like 18/19 million to spend in the off season which won't be enough to get us a big name like we need to put with Melo and KP.

This for me is bad news and i don't think this is any fault of Phil cause he really came into a tough situation and he's making the best moves he's been able to with what he has but it's definitely somewhat concerning for me.

Quite a of negativity in an overall positive building thread, but anyway...

Championship caliber teams take a while, with few exceptions. It's gonna take awhile unless a dominant player bucks the trend like LeBron did, or if Phil has some connections out there to swing hook-up deals like Ainge and Mitch did.

Your'e gonna have to sit and chill.

But I'm not exactly sure what tough situation Phil entered into. Every player on the team was set to expire after his very first year. He could have had 100% cap space minus holds AND a top pick to work with...he chose otherwise, most notably Calderon and a maxed out Melo.

Phil wont have enough cap space because of decisions he made himself. I cant think of too many teams in the league that has a maxed out player in their prime and sitting 7 games under .500. Phil likely wont be here when the team reaches contender status, but hopefully he keeps the groundwork of a solid foundation. He's lacking in that overall. KP is the only true piece at the moment.

The Calderon trade wasn't all about just getting rid of Tyson who needed to go cause he didn't want to be here but it also got rid of Felton and his bad contract which this year is the last year of the deal so we would of had to deal with having him all this time. Now did Calderon bring us what we hoped he'd bring?? No he didn't but he was injured most of his first year with us.

The bad situation Phil was given was Amare' and his bad contract, Tyson Chandler and his big contract and he didn't want to be here, R.Felton and his horrible play and contract, A.Bargnani and his horrible contract, JR.Smith and his horrible everything bad he brought to this team (you do remember all the crap we had to deal with with him right?) Shump was always hurt and angry. You don't think that's a lot of bad to be given?? This is the team Phil had to deal with.
Melo--He was an ISO only player and was getting ready to hit free agency and we neede him.
Amare"--He had to go
T.Chandler--disgruntled and didn't want to be here
JR.Smith--brought nothing but bad to this team on and off the court
A.Bargnani--do i need to say anything about him??
Shump--Always angry and hurt
R.Felton--brought nothing to this team and had a bad contract that we all wanted gone
T.Hardaway--never gave us what we hoped and was very inconsistent with his shot and played no defense
K.Martin--i actually like K-Mart but he was old
P.Prigioni--another guy i liked but again old
And then just a bunch of bench players that weren't worth a damn and you don't think he was given a bad team full of bad salaries?? OK

I disagree because every single one of these players were coming off the books....except Felton who could have been stretched for basically vet min salary. Phil didn't inherit the Brooklyn Nets, but that's how you're basically trying to portray things.

Phil could have opted for and here it is. 100% free cap space and a top pick. He chose something else.

No GM is perfect and overall Phil has changed the direction of the franchise for the better. Some of his moves worked and others haven't but this team isn't as far off as the recent losses make it seem. We all see the games and there's clearly a path to improving this team for Phil. Just how successful he'll be is the question.

Everyone can see we need improvement at the guard spots and perhaps another quality SF and just better depth overall. Phil doesn't want to kill his cap situation for this summer either, unless he can get what he wants in a trade right now, which seems unlikely. Either way we'll learn soon enough.

You don't have to be perfect to be effective. The primary fault I have towards Phil is his deliberate avoidance of adding quality pg depth, and it ties directly into the system that he's forcing, and I can use that word because every component of his staff is triangle based with no variation at all. We have a ton of forwards, not sure what you mean there.

He's made a few nice moves, I fully admit so, now whether those moves have WORKED...debatable. At the end of the day results matter, not hopes and dreams, and so far the results aren't there. The team is very behind the scope of being progress.

You're mistaken if you think Phil doesn't want a quality PG on the roster. Perhaps we need to adjust the point a bit. There's room for a Combo guard in this mix with MELO and KP. Meaning we don't really need a traditional Pure PG that can only thrive as a ball dominant player. So what Phil prefers is Combo guards that can be successful with and without the ball. IMO this is what Phil wants most to add to the mix.

Phil drafted Jerian as a mature young PG. I think that Phil hoped Jerian would adjust to the NBA and his role in this system much faster. Most assumed Jerian would acclimate in his rookie year faster than KP, but it didn't happen. Phil clearly wanted Jerian to be a key PG in this rotation.

He doesn't have a Jordan or Kobe! He has MELO who gives us a different dynamic but he's adapted well this year. Once Phil gets this guard thing upgraded then we'll be in much better shape.

Not sure who thought Grant would be the better player initially over KP. Nobody said that on here I hope.

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:KP has changed my entire mood regarding the Knicks. All I want is for him to stay healthy and continue to grow as a player. He's been such a revelation that even these tough losses are somewhat mitigated by his promise as a future franchise player. It's all about KP's development as well as our other young players. Phil will have many more upgrades to make to the roster. Soon enough we'll see what Phil can get done. Hopefully he surprises us with s great move.

I agree and i think everyone should agree that KP is a gigantic plus for us but i gotta say, i'm a little nervous about how long it could take to be a team ready to contend for deep playoff runs or championship runs cause we don't have the assets to make a big enough trade to get that next significant player in here unless we want that player bad enough to give up a future 1st round pick which most of us don't and we don't have any draft picks in this next draft and i don't really see us getting that big PG in the off season cause we're not getting Rondo or Conley and if we stay with this team we have now we'll only have like 18/19 million to spend in the off season which won't be enough to get us a big name like we need to put with Melo and KP.

This for me is bad news and i don't think this is any fault of Phil cause he really came into a tough situation and he's making the best moves he's been able to with what he has but it's definitely somewhat concerning for me.

Quite a of negativity in an overall positive building thread, but anyway...

Championship caliber teams take a while, with few exceptions. It's gonna take awhile unless a dominant player bucks the trend like LeBron did, or if Phil has some connections out there to swing hook-up deals like Ainge and Mitch did.

Your'e gonna have to sit and chill.

But I'm not exactly sure what tough situation Phil entered into. Every player on the team was set to expire after his very first year. He could have had 100% cap space minus holds AND a top pick to work with...he chose otherwise, most notably Calderon and a maxed out Melo.

Phil wont have enough cap space because of decisions he made himself. I cant think of too many teams in the league that has a maxed out player in their prime and sitting 7 games under .500. Phil likely wont be here when the team reaches contender status, but hopefully he keeps the groundwork of a solid foundation. He's lacking in that overall. KP is the only true piece at the moment.

The Calderon trade wasn't all about just getting rid of Tyson who needed to go cause he didn't want to be here but it also got rid of Felton and his bad contract which this year is the last year of the deal so we would of had to deal with having him all this time. Now did Calderon bring us what we hoped he'd bring?? No he didn't but he was injured most of his first year with us.

The bad situation Phil was given was Amare' and his bad contract, Tyson Chandler and his big contract and he didn't want to be here, R.Felton and his horrible play and contract, A.Bargnani and his horrible contract, JR.Smith and his horrible everything bad he brought to this team (you do remember all the crap we had to deal with with him right?) Shump was always hurt and angry. You don't think that's a lot of bad to be given?? This is the team Phil had to deal with.
Melo--He was an ISO only player and was getting ready to hit free agency and we neede him.
Amare"--He had to go
T.Chandler--disgruntled and didn't want to be here
JR.Smith--brought nothing but bad to this team on and off the court
A.Bargnani--do i need to say anything about him??
Shump--Always angry and hurt
R.Felton--brought nothing to this team and had a bad contract that we all wanted gone
T.Hardaway--never gave us what we hoped and was very inconsistent with his shot and played no defense
K.Martin--i actually like K-Mart but he was old
P.Prigioni--another guy i liked but again old
And then just a bunch of bench players that weren't worth a damn and you don't think he was given a bad team full of bad salaries?? OK

I disagree because every single one of these players were coming off the books....except Felton who could have been stretched for basically vet min salary. Phil didn't inherit the Brooklyn Nets, but that's how you're basically trying to portray things.

Phil could have opted for and here it is. 100% free cap space and a top pick. He chose something else.

No GM is perfect and overall Phil has changed the direction of the franchise for the better. Some of his moves worked and others haven't but this team isn't as far off as the recent losses make it seem. We all see the games and there's clearly a path to improving this team for Phil. Just how successful he'll be is the question.

Everyone can see we need improvement at the guard spots and perhaps another quality SF and just better depth overall. Phil doesn't want to kill his cap situation for this summer either, unless he can get what he wants in a trade right now, which seems unlikely. Either way we'll learn soon enough.

You don't have to be perfect to be effective. The primary fault I have towards Phil is his deliberate avoidance of adding quality pg depth, and it ties directly into the system that he's forcing, and I can use that word because every component of his staff is triangle based with no variation at all. We have a ton of forwards, not sure what you mean there.

He's made a few nice moves, I fully admit so, now whether those moves have WORKED...debatable. At the end of the day results matter, not hopes and dreams, and so far the results aren't there. The team is very behind the scope of being progress.

i do wonder how delicate the balance will be between running the triangle versus folding in pick and roll stuff. the way i see things is that if the president believes in system basketball then that dictates who you sign. but the working towards "working as a unit" that fisher has kept hammering home all season would seem to indicate that he values passing and defending-- two hallmarks of working as a unit. i honestly don't foresee the knicks picking up anyone that needs the ball in his hands to be effective, especially pick and roll ball-dominant point guards.

besides, as nixluva has stated many times, and i have seen-- the triangle can only be effective for the first 10-13 seconds of a possessions before the offense "descends" to the two-man game, and then isolation only as a last resort. if we had players with better court vision and passing skills the triangle would be more effective. if we had players who were better at making simple entry passes that would help too.

that said, i like conley as a passer and defender, but i fear he is breaking down. again, the swingmen out there-- paul pierce is the paradigm and a player like evan turner is a reasonable version-- are likely to be more desirable pickups.

not sure why evan turner is now the new flavor of the week. He is another crappy guard.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:KP has changed my entire mood regarding the Knicks. All I want is for him to stay healthy and continue to grow as a player. He's been such a revelation that even these tough losses are somewhat mitigated by his promise as a future franchise player. It's all about KP's development as well as our other young players. Phil will have many more upgrades to make to the roster. Soon enough we'll see what Phil can get done. Hopefully he surprises us with s great move.

I agree and i think everyone should agree that KP is a gigantic plus for us but i gotta say, i'm a little nervous about how long it could take to be a team ready to contend for deep playoff runs or championship runs cause we don't have the assets to make a big enough trade to get that next significant player in here unless we want that player bad enough to give up a future 1st round pick which most of us don't and we don't have any draft picks in this next draft and i don't really see us getting that big PG in the off season cause we're not getting Rondo or Conley and if we stay with this team we have now we'll only have like 18/19 million to spend in the off season which won't be enough to get us a big name like we need to put with Melo and KP.

This for me is bad news and i don't think this is any fault of Phil cause he really came into a tough situation and he's making the best moves he's been able to with what he has but it's definitely somewhat concerning for me.

Quite a of negativity in an overall positive building thread, but anyway...

Championship caliber teams take a while, with few exceptions. It's gonna take awhile unless a dominant player bucks the trend like LeBron did, or if Phil has some connections out there to swing hook-up deals like Ainge and Mitch did.

Your'e gonna have to sit and chill.

But I'm not exactly sure what tough situation Phil entered into. Every player on the team was set to expire after his very first year. He could have had 100% cap space minus holds AND a top pick to work with...he chose otherwise, most notably Calderon and a maxed out Melo.

Phil wont have enough cap space because of decisions he made himself. I cant think of too many teams in the league that has a maxed out player in their prime and sitting 7 games under .500. Phil likely wont be here when the team reaches contender status, but hopefully he keeps the groundwork of a solid foundation. He's lacking in that overall. KP is the only true piece at the moment.

The Calderon trade wasn't all about just getting rid of Tyson who needed to go cause he didn't want to be here but it also got rid of Felton and his bad contract which this year is the last year of the deal so we would of had to deal with having him all this time. Now did Calderon bring us what we hoped he'd bring?? No he didn't but he was injured most of his first year with us.

The bad situation Phil was given was Amare' and his bad contract, Tyson Chandler and his big contract and he didn't want to be here, R.Felton and his horrible play and contract, A.Bargnani and his horrible contract, JR.Smith and his horrible everything bad he brought to this team (you do remember all the crap we had to deal with with him right?) Shump was always hurt and angry. You don't think that's a lot of bad to be given?? This is the team Phil had to deal with.
Melo--He was an ISO only player and was getting ready to hit free agency and we neede him.
Amare"--He had to go
T.Chandler--disgruntled and didn't want to be here
JR.Smith--brought nothing but bad to this team on and off the court
A.Bargnani--do i need to say anything about him??
Shump--Always angry and hurt
R.Felton--brought nothing to this team and had a bad contract that we all wanted gone
T.Hardaway--never gave us what we hoped and was very inconsistent with his shot and played no defense
K.Martin--i actually like K-Mart but he was old
P.Prigioni--another guy i liked but again old
And then just a bunch of bench players that weren't worth a damn and you don't think he was given a bad team full of bad salaries?? OK

I disagree because every single one of these players were coming off the books....except Felton who could have been stretched for basically vet min salary. Phil didn't inherit the Brooklyn Nets, but that's how you're basically trying to portray things.

Phil could have opted for and here it is. 100% free cap space and a top pick. He chose something else.

No GM is perfect and overall Phil has changed the direction of the franchise for the better. Some of his moves worked and others haven't but this team isn't as far off as the recent losses make it seem. We all see the games and there's clearly a path to improving this team for Phil. Just how successful he'll be is the question.

Everyone can see we need improvement at the guard spots and perhaps another quality SF and just better depth overall. Phil doesn't want to kill his cap situation for this summer either, unless he can get what he wants in a trade right now, which seems unlikely. Either way we'll learn soon enough.

You don't have to be perfect to be effective. The primary fault I have towards Phil is his deliberate avoidance of adding quality pg depth, and it ties directly into the system that he's forcing, and I can use that word because every component of his staff is triangle based with no variation at all. We have a ton of forwards, not sure what you mean there.

He's made a few nice moves, I fully admit so, now whether those moves have WORKED...debatable. At the end of the day results matter, not hopes and dreams, and so far the results aren't there. The team is very behind the scope of being progress.

i do wonder how delicate the balance will be between running the triangle versus folding in pick and roll stuff. the way i see things is that if the president believes in system basketball then that dictates who you sign. but the working towards "working as a unit" that fisher has kept hammering home all season would seem to indicate that he values passing and defending-- two hallmarks of working as a unit. i honestly don't foresee the knicks picking up anyone that needs the ball in his hands to be effective, especially pick and roll ball-dominant point guards.

besides, as nixluva has stated many times, and i have seen-- the triangle can only be effective for the first 10-13 seconds of a possessions before the offense "descends" to the two-man game, and then isolation only as a last resort. if we had players with better court vision and passing skills the triangle would be more effective. if we had players who were better at making simple entry passes that would help too.

that said, i like conley as a passer and defender, but i fear he is breaking down. again, the swingmen out there-- paul pierce is the paradigm and a player like evan turner is a reasonable version-- are likely to be more desirable pickups.

not sure why evan turner is now the new flavor of the week. He is another crappy guard.

you are not imagining him in the triangle offense. he'd be a great fit. true he doesn't have a three-point shot but in all other respects he is a good fit, plus he's a far better defender than afflalo.

we need a better passer and defender at the shooting guard position. turner is both.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:KP has changed my entire mood regarding the Knicks. All I want is for him to stay healthy and continue to grow as a player. He's been such a revelation that even these tough losses are somewhat mitigated by his promise as a future franchise player. It's all about KP's development as well as our other young players. Phil will have many more upgrades to make to the roster. Soon enough we'll see what Phil can get done. Hopefully he surprises us with s great move.

I agree and i think everyone should agree that KP is a gigantic plus for us but i gotta say, i'm a little nervous about how long it could take to be a team ready to contend for deep playoff runs or championship runs cause we don't have the assets to make a big enough trade to get that next significant player in here unless we want that player bad enough to give up a future 1st round pick which most of us don't and we don't have any draft picks in this next draft and i don't really see us getting that big PG in the off season cause we're not getting Rondo or Conley and if we stay with this team we have now we'll only have like 18/19 million to spend in the off season which won't be enough to get us a big name like we need to put with Melo and KP.

This for me is bad news and i don't think this is any fault of Phil cause he really came into a tough situation and he's making the best moves he's been able to with what he has but it's definitely somewhat concerning for me.

Quite a of negativity in an overall positive building thread, but anyway...

Championship caliber teams take a while, with few exceptions. It's gonna take awhile unless a dominant player bucks the trend like LeBron did, or if Phil has some connections out there to swing hook-up deals like Ainge and Mitch did.

Your'e gonna have to sit and chill.

But I'm not exactly sure what tough situation Phil entered into. Every player on the team was set to expire after his very first year. He could have had 100% cap space minus holds AND a top pick to work with...he chose otherwise, most notably Calderon and a maxed out Melo.

Phil wont have enough cap space because of decisions he made himself. I cant think of too many teams in the league that has a maxed out player in their prime and sitting 7 games under .500. Phil likely wont be here when the team reaches contender status, but hopefully he keeps the groundwork of a solid foundation. He's lacking in that overall. KP is the only true piece at the moment.

The Calderon trade wasn't all about just getting rid of Tyson who needed to go cause he didn't want to be here but it also got rid of Felton and his bad contract which this year is the last year of the deal so we would of had to deal with having him all this time. Now did Calderon bring us what we hoped he'd bring?? No he didn't but he was injured most of his first year with us.

The bad situation Phil was given was Amare' and his bad contract, Tyson Chandler and his big contract and he didn't want to be here, R.Felton and his horrible play and contract, A.Bargnani and his horrible contract, JR.Smith and his horrible everything bad he brought to this team (you do remember all the crap we had to deal with with him right?) Shump was always hurt and angry. You don't think that's a lot of bad to be given?? This is the team Phil had to deal with.
Melo--He was an ISO only player and was getting ready to hit free agency and we neede him.
Amare"--He had to go
T.Chandler--disgruntled and didn't want to be here
JR.Smith--brought nothing but bad to this team on and off the court
A.Bargnani--do i need to say anything about him??
Shump--Always angry and hurt
R.Felton--brought nothing to this team and had a bad contract that we all wanted gone
T.Hardaway--never gave us what we hoped and was very inconsistent with his shot and played no defense
K.Martin--i actually like K-Mart but he was old
P.Prigioni--another guy i liked but again old
And then just a bunch of bench players that weren't worth a damn and you don't think he was given a bad team full of bad salaries?? OK

I disagree because every single one of these players were coming off the books....except Felton who could have been stretched for basically vet min salary. Phil didn't inherit the Brooklyn Nets, but that's how you're basically trying to portray things.

Phil could have opted for and here it is. 100% free cap space and a top pick. He chose something else.

No GM is perfect and overall Phil has changed the direction of the franchise for the better. Some of his moves worked and others haven't but this team isn't as far off as the recent losses make it seem. We all see the games and there's clearly a path to improving this team for Phil. Just how successful he'll be is the question.

Everyone can see we need improvement at the guard spots and perhaps another quality SF and just better depth overall. Phil doesn't want to kill his cap situation for this summer either, unless he can get what he wants in a trade right now, which seems unlikely. Either way we'll learn soon enough.

You don't have to be perfect to be effective. The primary fault I have towards Phil is his deliberate avoidance of adding quality pg depth, and it ties directly into the system that he's forcing, and I can use that word because every component of his staff is triangle based with no variation at all. We have a ton of forwards, not sure what you mean there.

He's made a few nice moves, I fully admit so, now whether those moves have WORKED...debatable. At the end of the day results matter, not hopes and dreams, and so far the results aren't there. The team is very behind the scope of being progress.

i do wonder how delicate the balance will be between running the triangle versus folding in pick and roll stuff. the way i see things is that if the president believes in system basketball then that dictates who you sign. but the working towards "working as a unit" that fisher has kept hammering home all season would seem to indicate that he values passing and defending-- two hallmarks of working as a unit. i honestly don't foresee the knicks picking up anyone that needs the ball in his hands to be effective, especially pick and roll ball-dominant point guards.

besides, as nixluva has stated many times, and i have seen-- the triangle can only be effective for the first 10-13 seconds of a possessions before the offense "descends" to the two-man game, and then isolation only as a last resort. if we had players with better court vision and passing skills the triangle would be more effective. if we had players who were better at making simple entry passes that would help too.

that said, i like conley as a passer and defender, but i fear he is breaking down. again, the swingmen out there-- paul pierce is the paradigm and a player like evan turner is a reasonable version-- are likely to be more desirable pickups.

not sure why evan turner is now the new flavor of the week. He is another crappy guard.

you are not imagining him in the triangle offense. he'd be a great fit. true he doesn't have a three-point shot but in all other respects he is a good fit, plus he's a far better defender than afflalo.

we need a better passer and defender at the shooting guard position. turner is both.

so we should get an inefficient player because he fits perfect into our inefficient offense? How awful is that?

this is not a dialogue, mreinman.