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Mac
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7/22/2004  8:28 PM
That Indiana will eventually offer Bender for Dampier? They've been week at the position for years, and Bird might just do it to A. Put his team over the top and over Detroit, or B. Do it for Isiah...

... and I saw a cbs article that says Atlanta is offering more than NY, which the NY papers contradict.
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Bonn1997
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7/22/2004  8:32 PM
I've heard two contradictory reports: One that the Warriors want Bender and his contract which has 3 years 21 mil remaining and another that they want to have as much cap room as possible in 2 years when Yao becomes a free agent. Bender would make it harder to have enough cap room to get Yao.
s3231
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7/22/2004  8:44 PM
I have a feeling Dallas is going to end up with Dampier. I think they will put together a deal consisting of Antoine Walker and Pavel Podkolzine for Dampier and a bad contract like Eschmeyer. I hope that doesn't happen because that would knock off two of our offseason targets, but I have a feeling Cuban is up to something.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
TMS
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7/22/2004  8:57 PM
that's an interesting thought...i never thought about that...Walker does have an expiring contract & he would be good value for Dampier in a sign & trade, & they both make comparable dollars considering what Dampier & his agent are asking for...

but i had thought Dampier wanted to stay in the East? maybe he changed his mind after Shaq went to MIA?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyballer
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7/23/2004  10:48 AM
Posted by TMS:

that's an interesting thought...i never thought about that...Walker does have an expiring contract & he would be good value for Dampier in a sign & trade, & they both make comparable dollars considering what Dampier & his agent are asking for...

but i had thought Dampier wanted to stay in the East? maybe he changed his mind after Shaq went to MIA?
Why would golden state do a sign and trade for an expiring contract? Dampier is already an expired contract - i've read that they would want short-term veteran leadership, and i dont think antoine can bring that. but you might be right, maybe they want to stay competitive next year and just keep cap room for Yao.
speaking of which, in two years don't TT and Penny come off the books? i wonder if maybe Isiah is going to TRY to get under the cap to sign him - maybe thats why he is balking on taking back a lot of long term deals
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
fishmike
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7/23/2004  11:04 AM
here's why I say no to Bender... I have read (and it makes sense) that there is no way Artest is a Pacer come October, so that means Bender is staying put.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
CTKnicksfan
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7/23/2004  11:07 AM
This is the last year of Yao's rookie deal, he'll be a restricted FA & elegible for a max extension next summer, which Houston will undoubtebly offer. If his agent even wants to take him to unrestriced free agency, he would be elegible in '06. Even if TT and Penny expire, Knicks will be nowhere near under the cap with Houston and Marbs. We are not players in that game. I think Yao will stay in Houston and win a a few rings with T-Mac and JVG.

As for Dampier, I suggested in another thread a trade of TT or Penny for Damp and Eschemayer, but I doubt they would increase payroll for either of those guys. Our olny shot at Damps looks to be the MLE. We shall see what happens

[Edited by - ctknicksfan on 07/23/2004 11:08:31]
Andrew
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7/23/2004  11:10 AM
Posted by CTKnicksfan:

This is the last year of Yao's rookie deal, he'll be a restricted FA & elegible for a max extension next summer, which Houston will undoubtebly offer.

Actually, Houston has a team option for the 2005-2006 season which they will most likely exercise.
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CTKnicksfan
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7/23/2004  11:15 AM
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by CTKnicksfan:

This is the last year of Yao's rookie deal, he'll be a restricted FA & elegible for a max extension next summer, which Houston will undoubtebly offer.

Actually, Houston has a team option for the 2005-2006 season which they will most likely exercise.

Didn't know that. Thanks for the info.
s3231
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7/23/2004  11:26 AM
"Why would golden state do a sign and trade for an expiring contract? Dampier is already an expired contract - i've read that they would want short-term veteran leadership, and i dont think antoine can bring that. but you might be right, maybe they want to stay competitive next year and just keep cap room for Yao.
speaking of which, in two years don't TT and Penny come off the books? i wonder if maybe Isiah is going to TRY to get under the cap to sign him - maybe thats why he is balking on taking back a lot of long term deals"





Why wouldn't they do that? Walker is an all-star PF with an expiring contract, if they do not want to keep him they can just trade him to a contender for young players or draft picks. If GS really wants to get back to the playoffs then Antoine can definitely help them with that. Plus, Pavel is a nice young Center who has enough potential to develop into a beast. Its all up to Dallas basically, if they offer that deal Golden State would definitely accept it if Dampier is willing to play for the Mavericks. I don't see how anyone could turn that deal down, its definitely a lot better than the Harrington and Mohammed deal.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
TMS
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7/23/2004  11:54 AM
Posted by fishmike:

here's why I say no to Bender... I have read (and it makes sense) that there is no way Artest is a Pacer come October, so that means Bender is staying put.

we'll take him off their hands, no prob.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyballer
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7/23/2004  12:05 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by fishmike:

here's why I say no to Bender... I have read (and it makes sense) that there is no way Artest is a Pacer come October, so that means Bender is staying put.

we'll take him off their hands, no prob.
I would love to have artest on the knicks, hes just the type of player we need. hes tough, can play defense - if marbury tries hard enough him and artest could be a solid pair defending the perimeter (if artest plays the 2). if we can get dampier then wed have a strong anchor in the middle, and then i think we could really develop into contenders. how about a 3-way deal where indiana gets crawford and we get artest? i like that a lot better, but i dont know if indiana would do it
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
fishmike
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7/23/2004  12:07 PM
Austin Croshere and Artest for Tim Thomas, Frank Williams. You do it?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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7/23/2004  12:11 PM
I would in a heartbeat, but I doubt Indy does something like that. I doubt they even want anything to do with Isiah Thomas. But I doubt they even want Tim Thomas for Artest. If that happens though, I'd freaking be the happiest Knick fan on the planet.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
CTKnicksfan
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7/23/2004  12:11 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Austin Croshere and Artest for Tim Thomas, Frank Williams. You do it?

Absolutley. Bird, unfortunatley, won't.
TMS
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7/23/2004  12:13 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Austin Croshere and Artest for Tim Thomas, Frank Williams. You do it?
hell yes i do it...i doubt the Pacers would though...that whole thing between Larry Bird & Isiah can't help matters either...i think it would take at least another team or 2 to be involved to make any trade between the Pacers & Knicks possible.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
s3231
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7/23/2004  12:38 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by fishmike:

Austin Croshere and Artest for Tim Thomas, Frank Williams. You do it?
hell yes i do it...i doubt the Pacers would though...that whole thing between Larry Bird & Isiah can't help matters either...i think it would take at least another team or 2 to be involved to make any trade between the Pacers & Knicks possible.






Talent-wise that is a good trade for both teams. If it wasn't for the whole thing between Isiah and Larry, then I honestly think the Pacers would accept that deal. The Pacers could really use a PG like Frank and Tim is a worthy replacement for Artest.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
TMS
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7/23/2004  12:42 PM
i think Artest has more value than TT & Frank combined...it would take a 3rd team to get involved to offer the Pacers something they want to make them agree to trading Artest.

maybe a 3 way where the Pacers get Dampier, the Warriors get TT & a pick from NY & the Knicks get Artest & a filler contract from GS? of course, you'd have to fill in contracts to make the dollars match up...but straight up, i just don't see the Pacers making that deal, even if there were no issues between Isiah & Bird.

[Edited by - TMS on 07/23/2004 12:44:22]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
s3231
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7/23/2004  12:54 PM
Posted by TMS:

i think Artest has more value than TT & Frank combined...it would take a 3rd team to get involved to offer the Pacers something they want to make them agree to trading Artest.

maybe a 3 way where the Pacers get Dampier, the Warriors get TT & a pick from NY & the Knicks get Artest & a filler contract from GS? of course, you'd have to fill in contracts to make the dollars match up...but straight up, i just don't see the Pacers making that deal, even if there were no issues between Isiah & Bird.

[Edited by - TMS on 07/23/2004 12:44:22]







If there were no issues between Isiah and Bird I think Larry would strongly consider that deal. I know that Ron has more value than Frank and TT combined but Ron has cost the Pacers at times with his stupid fouls (like in the ECF). It all depends on how much the Pacers want Artest gone. Tim isn't as good as Artest but he can definitely put up around 19 ppg on the right team. Plus, the Pacers really need a backup PG especially if Tinsley gets injured again. Obviously, there are teams that can offer more than us, but Frank and TT is not that bad of a deal.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Bonn1997
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7/23/2004  2:04 PM
Posted by s3231:
Posted by TMS:

i think Artest has more value than TT & Frank combined...it would take a 3rd team to get involved to offer the Pacers something they want to make them agree to trading Artest.

maybe a 3 way where the Pacers get Dampier, the Warriors get TT & a pick from NY & the Knicks get Artest & a filler contract from GS? of course, you'd have to fill in contracts to make the dollars match up...but straight up, i just don't see the Pacers making that deal, even if there were no issues between Isiah & Bird.

[Edited by - TMS on 07/23/2004 12:44:22]
Artest is young and gradually maturing. No way would anyone consider trading him for TT and Frank though. You don't trade the defensive player of the year (who also gives you 20 PPG) for an average starting SF and a backup guard. I can't imagine the Knicks getting Artest without giving up Marbury






If there were no issues between Isiah and Bird I think Larry would strongly consider that deal. I know that Ron has more value than Frank and TT combined but Ron has cost the Pacers at times with his stupid fouls (like in the ECF). It all depends on how much the Pacers want Artest gone. Tim isn't as good as Artest but he can definitely put up around 19 ppg on the right team. Plus, the Pacers really need a backup PG especially if Tinsley gets injured again. Obviously, there are teams that can offer more than us, but Frank and TT is not that bad of a deal.
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