Basically the difference between what I thought would happen this season and what has played out is how good Porzingis is. He's been a true revelation.

Him being so good speeds up the rebuild and makes us more attractive to FA all at once. I think you can build from within, but still add guys through free agency.

I think the Knicks are building, rather than rebuilding. We've got some very good building blocks in place, we need to keep adding and developing and improving from within.

I'd like to win 40-ish games this season and stay close to the playoffs - it'd be a tremendous bonus if they make the playoffs. Schedule gets a lot easier for a while now. Maybe they can make a push.

But this season is already ahead of what I expected in terms of KP. He was a gift that will allow us to get much better much faster than anyone thought heading into draft night.

I thought the last 20 games of the season would tell us about our rookies. Thus far KP has been the obvious surprise while a rookie PG we call grant has struggled, but he is in the rotation and shows signs of being an NBA player. Imagine, knicks playing a rookie PG and let him play thru the growing pains!! Very different. Obvious has been the play of Melo. Melo has missed 6 games out of 50 thus far.

Expectations is one thing. As a fan I'm not "content to settle" but reality is the less a team panics the stronger its culture becomes. The less a team trades from panic the more it can trade from positions of strength in the future. We are still very early laying the ground work of a long term run.

Some fans don't see it. Understandable.

regardless, it looks like my prediction-- based solely on the win shares of players going out and players coming in, the addition of a #4 pick, the hedge of melo playing the right way, and factoring in injuries-- is just about right.

i had no expectations of nor any interest in making the playoffs, but some premature expectations when the knicks looked like they were rolling earlier. i also have been thrilled with melo's play 90% of the time. kp and lance have exceeded my expectations, although to be fair i thought the lance i saw last season was supplanted by a doppleganger lance in summer league where he looked atrocious. happily, the lance i thought i saw potential in has returned. lopez has played up to my expectations, and i even see some merit in calderon. afflalo has been the only real problem player this season.

all this can be summed up in a simple assertion, namely that i saw a two-year narrative arc for this team, meaning that this season was merely the first of two acts. hence the crapping on fisher is ridiculous, just as ridiculous as the playoffs or bust line of thinking.

newyorker4ever wrote:We are absolutely in a rebuild which is why he signed players like D.Williams, K.Seraphin and A.Afflalo to one and two year deals with opt outs after the 1st year. What i would do if i was Phil is i would put every player on this team on the trade block except Melo/KP6 and L.Thomas and trade them only for draft picks or young players on cheap deals. It doesn't have to be draft picks in this next draft but i'd rather if they were or at least get a couple in this draft. If we traded A.Afflalo, Calderon and D.Williams we would have another $20 million for free agency putting us around $40 million and if we traded R.Lopez who i think would be the easiest of the four names mentioned to trade but i wouldn't mind keeping him, we'd have another $13 million which puts us around $53 million for the off season. Now of course these projections aren't including if we brought back any players in the trades.

If things fall in place for Phil he could have this team ready to compete for deep playoffs runs or championship runs in two years so Melo would have a team to make a run with for the last couple of years of his contract. With $40-$53 million and hopefully some players wanting to come play with Melo and KP6 we could have this team respectable in one year and ready to compete in two years with the right players coming here. With KP6 getting a great amount of respect around the league this year from all the big name players and with Melo playing some of his best basketball which is also been out there in the media and is known throughout the league, i think big name players will want to come here. Lets not forget that this is still New York City (THE MECCA) and this is still Madison Square garden and we still have Phil Jackson.

For this all to happen we'd need a ton of luck and for things to just finally fall our way but you never know.

i agree with your sentiment but ill take it even further...

yes always look to get YOUNGER and invest/scout in cheap young diamond in the roughs. but in general we should be PATIENT. even if it means taking a few lumps the next couple of years. yes we will have cap space...but the WHOLE NBA will have cap space. that means NYC wont be as competitive (taxes, weather, media, pressure and most of all talent). That is what the summer of 2010 taught me - its cool to have money, BUT not if everyone else does. the cap is expected to go up this summer and next summer. by 2018, (After a brief NBA strike by the owners), the cap SHOULD settle down. by that time, not every team will have cap space. my hope is that the knicks stay patient and save their money until 2018. THAT is when KP shouldve developed more, THAT is when the warriors/lebron dynasty should be fading, THAT is when melo should be fading into the sunset of his career and THAT is when knicks should have money that other teams dont.

nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks are re-building.

Lopez
Porzingis
Thomas
Galloway
Grant

Now these guys may not all become the players they want them to be (Grant comes to mind) but the re-build is on for sure. Melo is our franchise player for the next 2-3 years. The concern is whether they can get good enough to the point where Melo is still an all-star at that point when Porzingis is in his prime. Right now we're competitive - a team that can get 35-40 wins and while that's significant improvement vs last season, the team is still not good enough to be a lock for the playoffs with an all-star Melo on the roster. If we somehow get in it'll be quite unbelievable at this point but there's no reason to expect it.

The positive is free agency allows us to add players to the above mentioned 5 players (Lopez/Porzingis/Thomas/Galloway/Grant) to give Melo maybe some more help in the short term.

They've got to get some internal and external help though. Internal is that guys like Porzingis at the very least (if not Grant as well) have to get much better over the coming years. Lots of hype on KP, but he's still got a ways to go. If he can become the player he is capable of, then they've now got another all-star. When you go from having a good player (which he is today) to having a very good all-star level player (which he could be at some point) it'll be the same as what we hope to do in free agency which is sign a superstar to pair with Melo. We wouldn't even need to sign that star, we'd have him in KP. Lots of hype around KP and he deserves most of it, but he's not a superstar on offense right now. He's got a ways to go, and he may be the biggest difference maker in the re-build. If he becomes a 22 points a night guy instead of the 15 points a night guy he is now, it will go a long, long way. If this happens then all Phil really has to do is put some quality role player starter types around he, Melo and Lopez - in the backcourt. We're not that far away if Porzingis can become this sort of player. You'd have Melo giving you 20 a night, KP 20-22, and if you surround them with some defensive minded players that can shoot the ball from outside, you're in business.

On the other hand if KP isn't that sort of player in the making, if he's more in line with being a 3rd option who is comfortable being in the 15-17 points a night range, then the Knicks will be competitive but not really close to the top for a long time unless a star free agent signs with them. The importance of an all-star free agent signing with the Knicks in 2016 or 2017 becomes that much more if KP isn't able to reach that elite level himself. I know it's plenty to put on KP's shoulders but he seems he's willing to take that pressure and burden on.

The positive is that in this season so far, the re-build has shown some promise. KP has shown he can be a star on certain nights if he gets stronger and works on some of his post moves. Melo has shown he'll be a great teammate and pass the ball if teammates are making shots. If we can get some younger free agent guards in to replace Afflalo/Calderon as starters, we're looking solid. I do believe that it is a pretty simple thing in terms of contending for the Finals. Either Porzingis has to become that all-star level player or we have to sign one in free agency. If somehow we are fortunate enough to get both of those things - by 2017 onward we would be where Cleveland is right now - a team that would be the best in the East every year.

This can go many ways. Internal growth and what happens with free agency will play a big part.

Wow this post surprises me a little. I absolutely have no questions about if KP will be a star player if not next year then the following year for sure. With what he brings on the defensive side i think he could be a 20-22 point guy and will be a star because he brings an all around game.

callmened wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

callmened wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:We are absolutely in a rebuild which is why he signed players like D.Williams, K.Seraphin and A.Afflalo to one and two year deals with opt outs after the 1st year. What i would do if i was Phil is i would put every player on this team on the trade block except Melo/KP6 and L.Thomas and trade them only for draft picks or young players on cheap deals. It doesn't have to be draft picks in this next draft but i'd rather if they were or at least get a couple in this draft. If we traded A.Afflalo, Calderon and D.Williams we would have another $20 million for free agency putting us around $40 million and if we traded R.Lopez who i think would be the easiest of the four names mentioned to trade but i wouldn't mind keeping him, we'd have another $13 million which puts us around $53 million for the off season. Now of course these projections aren't including if we brought back any players in the trades.

If things fall in place for Phil he could have this team ready to compete for deep playoffs runs or championship runs in two years so Melo would have a team to make a run with for the last couple of years of his contract. With $40-$53 million and hopefully some players wanting to come play with Melo and KP6 we could have this team respectable in one year and ready to compete in two years with the right players coming here. With KP6 getting a great amount of respect around the league this year from all the big name players and with Melo playing some of his best basketball which is also been out there in the media and is known throughout the league, i think big name players will want to come here. Lets not forget that this is still New York City (THE MECCA) and this is still Madison Square garden and we still have Phil Jackson.

For this all to happen we'd need a ton of luck and for things to just finally fall our way but you never know.

i agree with your sentiment but ill take it even further...

yes always look to get YOUNGER and invest/scout in cheap young diamond in the roughs. but in general we should be PATIENT. even if it means taking a few lumps the next couple of years. yes we will have cap space...but the WHOLE NBA will have cap space. that means NYC wont be as competitive (taxes, weather, media, pressure and most of all talent). That is what the summer of 2010 taught me - its cool to have money, BUT not if everyone else does. the cap is expected to go up this summer and next summer. by 2018, (After a brief NBA strike by the owners), the cap SHOULD settle down. by that time, not every team will have cap space. my hope is that the knicks stay patient and save their money until 2018. THAT is when KP shouldve developed more, THAT is when the warriors/lebron dynasty should be fading, THAT is when melo should be fading into the sunset of his career and THAT is when knicks should have money that other teams dont.

The biggest reason that i don't agree with you in waiting until 2018 is because with my scenario we could be a good team sooner (2017) and i think Melo absolutely deserves to be a part of a good/great team as soon as we can put one together which in my opinion is 2 years. That extra year that you wanna wait isn't needed if things go right for us.

i hear you! my main point with 2018 is that the cap will finally settle down. therefore, teams will no longer equally have a LARGE amount of money to spend. if the knicks relax the next few yrs with free agency and SAVE their money -then they could be at the financial advantage of having $$ while others do not.

in terms of the actual team, we COULD be a contender sooner than 2018. that would be great! if so, then GO for it!. in regards to melo, um...i have no regards to melo. lol. his player arc doesnt match KP's arc so hes not a priority to me.

The Knicks have shown that they are an improved team but I think its important that they make the playoffs THIS YEAR, not just because we gave up a draft pick, but to show possible free agents that this team is much closer to contend than expected.
IMO, KP quick adjustment to the NBA and Melo all around play moved the timeline up. Everything Phil said BEFORE the season about the teams development should be nulled and he should try to capitalize on any opportunities that come up that will improve the teams success this year.

Regardless of what fans think, players don't want to play in NY because of its fickle fan base and media. So, if a trade comes up for a quality player that can move this process along quicker, I am all for it...even if that means giving up a future a pick.

That said, I still have the same reservations as I did in the summer. I am not going to nit pick the players Phil signed in the offseason. I was pretty exited about the additions as they represented an upgrade in talent. I see a few core players emerging to build on and applaud the change in Melo this season.

I am still not convinced the triangle is the right offense in todays modern NBA. I am not against a motion offense that incorporates elements of the triangle however if they refuse to totally abandon the triangle. I would like to see the offense adapt to where it is not so predictable and stagnant. Maybe that's on the players or coach, dunno. Just know it isn't working effectively.

and briefly, I am still not convinced on Fisher and disappointed in our guard play but don't see any quick fixes there this season. Just feeling really negative right now that our season is pretty much over and it's the beginning of Feb.