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Isiah talking many directions.....If I only had a heart.
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Nalod
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7/22/2004  9:44 AM


Isiah: ""I'm still trying to make a deal," Thomas told the Chicago Sun-Times. "I'm not trying to be emotional, not trying to make a name for myself and show somebody up. I've made a lot of deals already in my previous jobs in building the Toronto Raptors expansion team, in running that club and coaching the Indiana Pacers."

At the draft he said he was cool witht the roster and don't expect much. Now he is running around the country putting his hand in everything. Now I agree we got tough contracts to move and is facing similar roadblocks that Laydog did, except he has a little more carte blance to spend.

I don't think we have a championship caliber base and I don't think Craw and damp are championship caliber players either. I think the Craw idea is a good one if we open roster spots for youth. He is only 24 also.

I am against the Damp deal. Damp is only looking at MLE, and 3 years from ATL. I don't think we can even do that unless we unload roster. We want Azira, ALes?? Vin??and Damp? I thought we only have two roster spots. Vins and Demarrs.

Paying damp 23million more than anyone is willing seems a little out there.
Damp is not that significantly better than a sober Vin who the wizard of OZ gave him a new heart (off season heart surgery). Vin could very well return close to form that made him an allstar. In fact, a healty Vin might actually exceed Damp!
AUTOADVERT
CTKnicksfan
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7/22/2004  10:21 AM
Considering that Isiah was gonna give Damp 70 mil over 6 yrs, if we can get him for the full MLE 38 mil over 6 years I'd do it. But it seems Damp was only interested in NY for the cash and if a sign-and-trade is out,he'd sooner take MLE from Memphis (better team, closer to home) or Indiana (ditto) than NY. Atlanta is lowballing now and it seems his big payday has evaporated.

There are a couple of big men left who could help us like Mihm, Gadzuric, or Clark, but they won't put us over the top. I woudn't mind giving Vin the MLE for 2 years with a team option after year 1 That way, we can hang onto him if he's effective, but if not, cut him loose or trade him at the deadline. If nothing else, it's an additional $5 million expiring contract for Zeke to play with in February

[Edited by - ctknicksfan on 07/22/2004 10:26:05]
tkf
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7/22/2004  10:44 AM
nalod, you are on point, I think a healthy vin can outplay dampier on any given night, and he will come a lot cheaper and he is just what 3 years older than damp? I definately want to make room for Ariza, that is a given and Dermarr also, I like barrett but maybe we can sign him to a small deal and let him play in europe for a year, until we open up some more spots, but the dampier thing I am over, let him go, please IT.... What the knicks need most is health, a healthy Houston for sure and some time to gel as a unit....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
franco12
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7/22/2004  10:45 AM
Vin Baker was very effective early in the season last year- he could regain that form and would probably come cheap.
trevor
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7/22/2004  11:00 AM
Hello All
Im new to this site (posting wise that is) but, I've been reading the posts here for some time now and I think its a good forum. Also recognize a bunch of names for an other forum.

As for the topic at hand, I think Dampier will be a bust as well. I can't but help to think Candi-man when I hear about him. Plus, I think 6 years is to long of a signing for him UNLESS, we have a team option after the 4th. Then I'd do it but, at then only for the midlevel. As far as Isaiah building a championship team, that will take more than 2 seasons. But, if you look at what he's done with what he had and, it seems like a good start.
We went from being one of the oldest, shortest and least athletic teams in the nba to becoming a fairly young and athletic team.
Championships teams are built 1 peace at a time
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nyballer
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7/22/2004  11:16 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Damp is only looking at MLE, and 3 years from ATL.

I can't see Damp only getting the MLE - fegan did the warriors a favor by having damp opt out from his 8 mil contract, i doubt fegan will be happy if his client signs for the MLE, and mullin needs to be on fegan's good side since he represents Jrich and someone else ( i think troy murphy? i forget ). and i doubt damp wants to play for atlanta - why would he opt out of his contract to play for a losing team on the other side of the country, it makes no sense. so im pretty sure mullin will work out some sort of a sign and trade. there are a lot of teams with nice, extra pieces that need a center. i would very surprised, in this market, if you see damp sign for less than 9 mil a year
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TMS
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7/22/2004  11:20 AM
since ATL doesn't want to give in to Dampier's ridiculous demands, i say Isiah should offer the exact same contract that the Pistons are signing Rasheed to (5 years at $57 million) & see if Dampier takes it...his only other option will be to go to a team for the MLE...then they will have to convince the Warriors to take back a package of KT & an expiring contract (Deke?) in return, which is another obstacle...but at least they won't be overpaying for him.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Nalod
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7/22/2004  11:28 AM
Posted by nyballer:
Posted by Nalod:

Damp is only looking at MLE, and 3 years from ATL.

I can't see Damp only getting the MLE - fegan did the warriors a favor by having damp opt out from his 8 mil contract, i doubt fegan will be happy if his client signs for the MLE, and mullin needs to be on fegan's good side since he represents Jrich and someone else ( i think troy murphy? i forget ). and i doubt damp wants to play for atlanta - why would he opt out of his contract to play for a losing team on the other side of the country, it makes no sense. so im pretty sure mullin will work out some sort of a sign and trade. there are a lot of teams with nice, extra pieces that need a center. i would very surprised, in this market, if you see damp sign for less than 9 mil a year

Mullin offered Damp a 2 year extension. That may be a good faith offering. Damp wanted to find his market value, and he did. Damp can be mad at agent if he is wrong. A contractis a contract. Troy is restricted, As is Jrich too. The warriors have the power. If the Warriors want to keep the players, they will have lots more to spend on them by not taking in unwanted salary to "help" Damp.
Nalod
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7/22/2004  11:29 AM
Seems every GM we have had in the last 30 years finds a new found sense of urgency and panic. These lead to compromise moves. Even during the 1990's, with the execption of Cartwright-Oakley trade, we always have the next year in mind only rather than build up a talent base, and a talent base that is flexible for trades also.

I am convinced we could have provided Ewing with the right players with a little more patience. Looking at this roster, we don't have that kind of caliber, nor a valid shot of being a SERIOUS contender.

I hope Isiah does not feel like he has to do it all in one year! Then its about him, not us: the fans!
Knicksfan
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7/22/2004  11:30 AM
Posted by trevor:

Hello All
Im new to this site (posting wise that is) but, I've been reading the posts here for some time now and I think its a good forum. Also recognize a bunch of names for an other forum.

As for the topic at hand, I think Dampier will be a bust as well. I can't but help to think Candi-man when I hear about him. Plus, I think 6 years is to long of a signing for him UNLESS, we have a team option after the 4th. Then I'd do it but, at then only for the midlevel. As far as Isaiah building a championship team, that will take more than 2 seasons. But, if you look at what he's done with what he had and, it seems like a good start.
We went from being one of the oldest, shortest and least athletic teams in the nba to becoming a fairly young and athletic team.
Championships teams are built 1 peace at a time

Hello trevor, and welcome.

The Candy comparison may be a fitting one, as I remember people being so hyped about the possibility of landing him. He was said to be the best avaliable center and one that could match up with Shaq. He is nothing but a bust; not really a factor in the T-Wolves. If he can be had with the MLE then do it because he would be an upgrade at C, but I too think that if he has to accept the MLE he will prefer Memphis. Whatever. If the Crawford deal can happen it would be better for us than overpaying Dampier.
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trevor
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7/22/2004  12:09 PM
I agree. Crawford IS the guy we need to go after. It is a must that we havea backup for Steph and more importantly Houston. Take Moochie out of the deal, Give them Deke. Moochie comes off the books in 06, Mutombo cant get off the bench anyway. We no longer need in to get Dampier because We no longer have ANYTHING to offer golden state (they now want a young talented sf sf or big guard). At this point we have nothing to lose.
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Nalod
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7/22/2004  1:56 PM
Moochie with 3mil is the same as deke. ANd I think Deke is a good pawn in a KT deal.

ANNNNNNNNNd, Deke is not bad for a few minute in some situations during the season. we can throw him at shaq, get his fouls, and let whom ever finsish. You can't stop shaq, but you can win the finals aganst him! Detroit threw a lot of guys at him. Nazr, Vin and Deke is not the worst thing. Until an opportunity presents itself.

Isiah, be patient!
djsunyc
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7/22/2004  2:01 PM
Vin could very well return close to form that made him an allstar. In fact, a healty Vin might actually exceed Damp!

chances are pretty good that vin's allstar form is gone. he can still be a solid veteran backup (15-20 mins/night) but vin will not be better for this team than damp. we need damp for 3 reasons, rebounding, defense, and block shots. vin sorely lacks 2 of the 3 (defense and block shots) so therefore dampier is a better fit for the knicks.
tkf
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7/22/2004  2:07 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Moochie with 3mil is the same as deke. ANd I think Deke is a good pawn in a KT deal.

ANNNNNNNNNd, Deke is not bad for a few minute in some situations during the season. we can throw him at shaq, get his fouls, and let whom ever finsish. You can't stop shaq, but you can win the finals aganst him! Detroit threw a lot of guys at him. Nazr, Vin and Deke is not the worst thing. Until an opportunity presents itself.

Isiah, be patient!

exactly, I mean there is no counter for shaq, especially not dampier, that is not the answer, you have to find other ways to counter, even thinking of dampier as a counter is just ridiculous...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Knicksfan
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7/22/2004  2:20 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Moochie with 3mil is the same as deke. ANd I think Deke is a good pawn in a KT deal.

ANNNNNNNNNd, Deke is not bad for a few minute in some situations during the season. we can throw him at shaq, get his fouls, and let whom ever finsish. You can't stop shaq, but you can win the finals aganst him! Detroit threw a lot of guys at him. Nazr, Vin and Deke is not the worst thing. Until an opportunity presents itself.

Isiah, be patient!

Yeah, I would like the Crawford deal to get done, but Isiah is doing the right thing not giving up on the requests from the Bulls. Isiah himself explained how Moochie + 3mill works the same as Moochie because his last year isn't guaranteed. They are just waiting for Isiah to blink but he shouldn't. The Bulls have nothing to lose? Crawford and his agentb are already angry at the Bulls for not having something done when most of the free agents have signed with their teams. They just want a deal done, but a good deal for the player. They aren't going to accept MLE-type money when this market has been crazy with big deals. They aren't going to be happy returning to Chicago for less money, even for a year. It doesn't work nice for them. They haven't showed Crawford that they really want him back, and he can't be happy about that. And if they lose him for nothing they lose a chance to get some expiring contracts to get more space next season. We may really need a combo guard capable of playing in Houston's place if he isn't healthy, but they have some issues to deal too.
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trevor
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7/22/2004  2:39 PM
Actually, Detroit for the most part played Shaq single coverage. Despite the size and weight difference, Big Ben & even Sheed did a great job on Shaq. But, like I said it would mostly single coverage. The got beat by good team ball and it was mainly a guard orientated attack that killed LA. The couldn't guard Rip, Chauncy or Prince. Look At Sheed and Ben's averages for the series.

As such, Deke (and his 10-15min a game which is all he can do)has shown himself to be such a defensive liability now that he cant move his feet. I say once again, give him to chi-town. If all we need is his fould, we can pick up someone from the nbdl for that. Shoot, find adn re-sign dudley or night if that all we want
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Knicksfan
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7/22/2004  2:54 PM
Posted by trevor:

Actually, Detroit for the most part played Shaq single coverage. Despite the size and weight difference, Big Ben & even Sheed did a great job on Shaq. But, like I said it would mostly single coverage. The got beat by good team ball and it was mainly a guard orientated attack that killed LA. The couldn't guard Rip, Chauncy or Prince. Look At Sheed and Ben's averages for the series.

As such, Deke (and his 10-15min a game which is all he can do)has shown himself to be such a defensive liability now that he cant move his feet. I say once again, give him to chi-town. If all we need is his fould, we can pick up someone from the nbdl for that. Shoot, find adn re-sign dudley or night if that all we want

About Detroit, they just played such a great defense that even though they single covered Shaq, he really didn't have much space to opperate because Detroit's defenders were all aover the court. Thats why they had so many steals. It was an incredible defensive effort from everyone of the players.

About Deke, don't forget another important fact about him, he is an expiring contract. Thats gold when making deals. If you throw all of the expiring contracts you have it gives you practically no more chances at making more deals. Who knows who will be avaliable come the trading deadline. If Isiah wanted Crawford so much he would have already given him Deke, but he knows that as a bussiness you need some room to make other movements later on. It will be good if we can get Crawford, but we must be careful not to lose all our chances of making future deals.
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simrud
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7/22/2004  3:04 PM
Some things everybody needs to realize. Indy and Grizs already spent all or lots of there MLE on Anthony Johnson and Cardinal. We have the best MLE out of them. Unless Dampier can get a sign and trade from some other team, or take the Hawks offer, we are his best option still.

Expecting anything out of Baker is not a very smart move. The guy is over 30, has battled alcoholism, and just had a heart surgery, which last time I checked made somebody less physically well then before. The dude has heart problems and a recovering alcohloic. If you want to count on him, then I can't agree with you.

Right now I would not pay Dampier more then 7 mil a year for at most 4 years. That's about what he is worse if he keeps up the level of play he displayed last season. Ishe worth 10 mil a year? Only if its a 2 year deal. As long as the contracts expire by 07 we can him 100 mil a yar for all I care, arent my dough. Just don't make it a deadweight down the road with a 10 mil a year guy at 37 years old because at this pont we can get him for chipper unless he just picks some other team over us.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Knicksfan
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7/22/2004  3:12 PM
http://www.hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

Well, in hoopshype tere is a quote from an article that I can't access where Dampier is strongly considering Atlanta because its close to his home but that if things can't be worked out he would then probably sign for the MLE for 2 years and see what happens.

If we can be the ones where he signs that 2 year MLE, that would be great.
Knicks_Fan
Isiah talking many directions.....If I only had a heart.

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