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Herring: Knicks Effort To Balance Win Now and Development
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nixluva
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12/22/2015  5:47 PM
The Growing Pains of Kristaps Porzingis
The Knicks’ star rookie is slumping but playing him in tough spots may be part of the NBA’s learning curve

By CHRIS HERRING
Dec. 22, 2015 4:41 p.m. ET

One question seemingly hovered over the Knicks franchise before the season: How would this team toe the difficult line between development and dedication to winning now, while star Carmelo Anthony, at the age of 31, enjoys the last year or two of his prime?

For a while, with the unexpectedly strong play of 20-year-old rookie Kristaps Porzingis, the issue became moot. But lately, with Porzingis shooting 29% in the last seven games, and the team fighting to stay afloat in a strengthened Eastern Conference with a 14-15 record, the line has become blurred again in terms of which path the Knicks are taking.

That dilemma—between letting Porzingis ride out what could be a tough learning curve, or taking a more conservative approach with him and leaning more heavily on veterans—was on display Monday, when the Knicks lost to Orlando, 107-99.

Coach Derek Fisher subbed out Porzingis, who had been impactful on defense, with four blocks, to bring veteran Robin Lopez off the bench as Magic center Nik Vucevic prepared to re-enter the game with Orlando ahead, 85-83, and seven minutes left. The second-year coach made the switch despite Vucevic having dominated Lopez (he shot 70%, or 12-of-17 with Lopez serving as his primary defender) in the post during the game.

Fisher made the change because he had more faith in Lopez (7 feet, and 256 pounds) to stop Vucevic (7 feet, 260 pounds), even though he hadn’t been able to earlier in the game.


“Physically, Robin can match size with Vucevic and Lance [Thomas, who shot 9-for-9] was playing well at [power forward]. So who do you take out?” Fisher asked, adding that there was no guarantee Porzingis would’ve better contained Vucevic, who finished with 26 points.

On some level, it might have served the Knicks well to see if Porzingis—who stands 7-foot-3 with a 7-foot-6 wingspan, but a thin 240 pounds—could have held his own in that spot, given that there was nothing to lose by at least testing an alternative strategy.

But even Porzingis himself, who’s spent 26% of his minutes so far at center, according to Basketball-Reference, sounded unsure of whether he would’ve been able to stop Vucevic.

“Strength-wise, I still need to get stronger to be able to [do that],” said Porzingis, who generally sounds a more confident tone. “I use my activity and aggressiveness on defense to make plays in the post when [an opposing big man] is trying to receive the ball. Robin’s more of a guy who can hold him, and I’m more of a guy who can dance around him and get a steal. That’s more my game now, because I’m not able to hold those guys yet. But I’m putting in a lot of work now, and I’ll put in a lot of work in the off-season so that next year I can be more prepared to play [center].”

Porzingis has only played 10% of his minutes when Carmelo Anthony is on the bench. ENLARGE
Porzingis has only played 10% of his minutes when Carmelo Anthony is on the bench. PHOTO: NBAE/GETTY IMAGES
While he’s shown he can do the job as a primary defender on stretch power forwards (limiting Anthony Davis to 6-of-14, Kevin Love to 4-of-13 and Chris Bosh to 3-of-12, according to NBA Savant), he’s struggled to stop a handful of centers who are most comfortable playing with their backs to the basket, like DeMarcus Cousins (4-of-8), Karl-Anthony Towns (6-of-8), John Henson (4-of-5) and Tiago Splitter (4-of-4). So there’s a decent chance Vucevic would’ve continued that trend, given that Porzingis “is not a finished product” at center yet, as Fisher said recently.

Still, the coach should know that challenging his rookie, and seeing what Porzingis is capable of, carries more benefit than repeatedly using a veteran who isn’t getting the job done on a given night—especially since, with a solid start to the season, Fisher will likely get the benefit of the doubt this year from team president Phil Jackson, who hired him into the job and with whom he shares personal and professional ties.

Above all else, the scenario, both on Monday and going forward, is a litmus test for a franchise that is in the process of becoming more patient with its young players after decades of having skipped that step. (The Knicks have seen an NBA-high 99 different players suit up and play since 2009—nine more than any other team, according to Stats LLC—and haven’t re-signed a first-round pick to a multiyear deal since Charlie Ward in 1999.)

Striking a balance is what the Knicks have to learn to do, both with Porzingis and fellow first-rounder Jerian Grant, who recently had a pair of eyebrow-raising DNPs where 31-year-old Sasha Vujacic, who owns the NBA’s second-lowest field-goal percentage, played over him.

Fisher should feel a bit more comfortable letting Porzingis play without Carmelo Anthony having to be on the court simultaneously, to stagger the team’s scoring options better and to gradually let the Latvian rookie experience what it’s like to have a handful of possessions run through him, as the offense’s main option. (Just 10% of his minutes, less than three minutes a night, have come with Anthony on the bench.)

Either way, Fisher and the Knicks would be wise not to get too caught up in the standings and the fact that they remain in contention for a playoff spot. More than anything, they need to do all they can to help Porzingis mature as a player, and some of that stems from giving him opportunities in scenarios like Monday’s game.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-growing-pains-of-kristaps-porzingis-1450820509?mod=rss_newyork_sports

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TPercy
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12/22/2015  6:20 PM
Very nice article.
I strongly agree with the notion of KP featuring more minutes with Melo on the bench so that he can get accustomed to being a main scorer. That way he can learn to see what works and what dosen't work otherwise he will get used to being a secondary option. This is a main consensus that has been on this board for sometime.
The Future is Bright!
BRIGGS
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12/22/2015  6:38 PM
KP makes himself 6-3 instead of 7-3 when he stands out 30 feet from the basket. He cant get O rebounds hes taking bad shots--I think he needs some stern college like coaching right now. You take bad shots you sit. Do you think Jim Calhoun would sit there and let the kid take 32 footers or long fade-away 2's? No.
RIP Crushalot😞
Malcolm
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12/22/2015  7:07 PM
nixluva wrote:
But even Porzingis himself, who’s spent 26% of his minutes so far at center, according to Basketball-Reference, sounded unsure of whether he would’ve been able to stop Vucevic.

This is an excellent perspective to consider -- thanks for the post (!)

But I was surprised . . . that KP has been at center 26% of the time.

Anyone else surprised (?)

I wouldn't have thought it was that much.

In fact . . . for his first season . . . that's maybe not too off of what makes sense.

mreinman
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12/22/2015  7:14 PM
BRIGGS wrote:KP makes himself 6-3 instead of 7-3 when he stands out 30 feet from the basket. He cant get O rebounds hes taking bad shots--I think he needs some stern college like coaching right now. You take bad shots you sit. Do you think Jim Calhoun would sit there and let the kid take 32 footers or long fade-away 2's? No.

now we are up to 32 footers. Nice.

where do you want him? 15 feet from the basket? Doing what? Clogging the lane for everyone else?

You sound like you don't have a clue. This is still a kid!

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nyknickzingis
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12/22/2015  8:10 PM
Irony is that to me, Porzingis's defense and ability/impact on that end has been the biggest change in this team from last year and this year. The Triangle and players are better, but the fact that they have a great shotblocker who can come out and defend smaller perimeter players has been a big boost to their D.

You have to at the very least try a few possessions with Porzingis on him in a row, to see if that length works. The worst thing was the timing. He had just made a great pass for an assist. Then a blocked shot. You don't take a guy out at that time - you give him a few possessions to show you what he can do on defense. It wasn't long after that the Magic lead went to 10.

dk7th
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12/22/2015  8:40 PM
nixluva wrote:
The Growing Pains of Kristaps Porzingis
The Knicks’ star rookie is slumping but playing him in tough spots may be part of the NBA’s learning curve

By CHRIS HERRING
Dec. 22, 2015 4:41 p.m. ET

One question seemingly hovered over the Knicks franchise before the season: How would this team toe the difficult line between development and dedication to winning now, while star Carmelo Anthony, at the age of 31, enjoys the last year or two of his prime?

For a while, with the unexpectedly strong play of 20-year-old rookie Kristaps Porzingis, the issue became moot. But lately, with Porzingis shooting 29% in the last seven games, and the team fighting to stay afloat in a strengthened Eastern Conference with a 14-15 record, the line has become blurred again in terms of which path the Knicks are taking.

That dilemma—between letting Porzingis ride out what could be a tough learning curve, or taking a more conservative approach with him and leaning more heavily on veterans—was on display Monday, when the Knicks lost to Orlando, 107-99.

Coach Derek Fisher subbed out Porzingis, who had been impactful on defense, with four blocks, to bring veteran Robin Lopez off the bench as Magic center Nik Vucevic prepared to re-enter the game with Orlando ahead, 85-83, and seven minutes left. The second-year coach made the switch despite Vucevic having dominated Lopez (he shot 70%, or 12-of-17 with Lopez serving as his primary defender) in the post during the game.

Fisher made the change because he had more faith in Lopez (7 feet, and 256 pounds) to stop Vucevic (7 feet, 260 pounds), even though he hadn’t been able to earlier in the game.


“Physically, Robin can match size with Vucevic and Lance [Thomas, who shot 9-for-9] was playing well at [power forward]. So who do you take out?” Fisher asked, adding that there was no guarantee Porzingis would’ve better contained Vucevic, who finished with 26 points.

On some level, it might have served the Knicks well to see if Porzingis—who stands 7-foot-3 with a 7-foot-6 wingspan, but a thin 240 pounds—could have held his own in that spot, given that there was nothing to lose by at least testing an alternative strategy.

But even Porzingis himself, who’s spent 26% of his minutes so far at center, according to Basketball-Reference, sounded unsure of whether he would’ve been able to stop Vucevic.

“Strength-wise, I still need to get stronger to be able to [do that],” said Porzingis, who generally sounds a more confident tone. “I use my activity and aggressiveness on defense to make plays in the post when [an opposing big man] is trying to receive the ball. Robin’s more of a guy who can hold him, and I’m more of a guy who can dance around him and get a steal. That’s more my game now, because I’m not able to hold those guys yet. But I’m putting in a lot of work now, and I’ll put in a lot of work in the off-season so that next year I can be more prepared to play [center].”

Porzingis has only played 10% of his minutes when Carmelo Anthony is on the bench. ENLARGE
Porzingis has only played 10% of his minutes when Carmelo Anthony is on the bench. PHOTO: NBAE/GETTY IMAGES
While he’s shown he can do the job as a primary defender on stretch power forwards (limiting Anthony Davis to 6-of-14, Kevin Love to 4-of-13 and Chris Bosh to 3-of-12, according to NBA Savant), he’s struggled to stop a handful of centers who are most comfortable playing with their backs to the basket, like DeMarcus Cousins (4-of-8), Karl-Anthony Towns (6-of-8), John Henson (4-of-5) and Tiago Splitter (4-of-4). So there’s a decent chance Vucevic would’ve continued that trend, given that Porzingis “is not a finished product” at center yet, as Fisher said recently.

Still, the coach should know that challenging his rookie, and seeing what Porzingis is capable of, carries more benefit than repeatedly using a veteran who isn’t getting the job done on a given night—especially since, with a solid start to the season, Fisher will likely get the benefit of the doubt this year from team president Phil Jackson, who hired him into the job and with whom he shares personal and professional ties.

Above all else, the scenario, both on Monday and going forward, is a litmus test for a franchise that is in the process of becoming more patient with its young players after decades of having skipped that step. (The Knicks have seen an NBA-high 99 different players suit up and play since 2009—nine more than any other team, according to Stats LLC—and haven’t re-signed a first-round pick to a multiyear deal since Charlie Ward in 1999.)

Striking a balance is what the Knicks have to learn to do, both with Porzingis and fellow first-rounder Jerian Grant, who recently had a pair of eyebrow-raising DNPs where 31-year-old Sasha Vujacic, who owns the NBA’s second-lowest field-goal percentage, played over him.

Fisher should feel a bit more comfortable letting Porzingis play without Carmelo Anthony having to be on the court simultaneously, to stagger the team’s scoring options better and to gradually let the Latvian rookie experience what it’s like to have a handful of possessions run through him, as the offense’s main option. (Just 10% of his minutes, less than three minutes a night, have come with Anthony on the bench.)

Either way, Fisher and the Knicks would be wise not to get too caught up in the standings and the fact that they remain in contention for a playoff spot. More than anything, they need to do all they can to help Porzingis mature as a player, and some of that stems from giving him opportunities in scenarios like Monday’s game.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-growing-pains-of-kristaps-porzingis-1450820509?mod=rss_newyork_sports

<yawn>

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
WaltLongmire
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12/22/2015  8:50 PM
mreinman wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:KP makes himself 6-3 instead of 7-3 when he stands out 30 feet from the basket. He cant get O rebounds hes taking bad shots--I think he needs some stern college like coaching right now. You take bad shots you sit. Do you think Jim Calhoun would sit there and let the kid take 32 footers or long fade-away 2's? No.

now we are up to 32 footers. Nice.

where do you want him? 15 feet from the basket? Doing what? Clogging the lane for everyone else?

You sound like you don't have a clue. This is still a kid!


So why not compromise and set him up for some open midrange shots.

He is clearly hesitant to shoot from behind the arc...and he is frequently shooting from too far beyond it. He will take the shot, but I always sense that he does not really want to be shooting them.

I don't see him moving around as much, and if they don't get him the ball in the post he sometimes moves out of the way and stands to the side while others do their thing.

His game in the post in underdeveloped...and perhaps his leg fatigue might bother him from deep...no reason why they can't get him involved in pick and pops or some of the curls he's scored on.

Do it early in the game to get his confidence going.

Have to hit a certain percentage of 3s to justify taking them...he is not shooting well enough- whatever the reason- for him to be justified in taking them, especially when many seem to be outside of the offensive flow, and more of the "heck I'm free from real deep- guess I'll shoot it" type shots.

If he's not hitting them- they are going to let him continue shooting and missing, and it won't open up the middle of the floor. You have to understand that at some point KP is not going to continue shooting them if he's not confident about making them and his misses are hurting the team.

This is why you see him pass up many of them.

Don't mind him taking them within the flow of the offense where he does not have too much time to think about shooting them. Of note is the fact that the only one he hit vs Orlando was a rushed shot where he had little time to think about it.

Right now the problem is in his head, as much as anything else...same is true for Grant. Both will come around at some point...just a matter of when, and whether you can speed up the process while not hurting the team's chances for winning games.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
mreinman
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12/22/2015  9:07 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
mreinman wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:KP makes himself 6-3 instead of 7-3 when he stands out 30 feet from the basket. He cant get O rebounds hes taking bad shots--I think he needs some stern college like coaching right now. You take bad shots you sit. Do you think Jim Calhoun would sit there and let the kid take 32 footers or long fade-away 2's? No.

now we are up to 32 footers. Nice.

where do you want him? 15 feet from the basket? Doing what? Clogging the lane for everyone else?

You sound like you don't have a clue. This is still a kid!


So why not compromise and set him up for some open midrange shots.

He is clearly hesitant to shoot from behind the arc...and he is frequently shooting from too far beyond it. He will take the shot, but I always sense that he does not really want to be shooting them.

I don't see him moving around as much, and if they don't get him the ball in the post he sometimes moves out of the way and stands to the side while others do their thing.

His game in the post in underdeveloped...and perhaps his leg fatigue might bother him from deep...no reason why they can't get him involved in pick and pops or some of the curls he's scored on.

Do it early in the game to get his confidence going.

Have to hit a certain percentage of 3s to justify taking them...he is not shooting well enough- whatever the reason- for him to be justified in taking them, especially when many seem to be outside of the offensive flow, and more of the "heck I'm free from real deep- guess I'll shoot it" type shots.

If he's not hitting them- they are going to let him continue shooting and missing, and it won't open up the middle of the floor. You have to understand that at some point KP is not going to continue shooting them if he's not confident about making them and his misses are hurting the team.

This is why you see him pass up many of them.

Don't mind him taking them within the flow of the offense where he does not have too much time to think about shooting them. Of note is the fact that the only one he hit vs Orlando was a rushed shot where he had little time to think about it.

Right now the problem is in his head, as much as anything else...same is true for Grant. Both will come around at some point...just a matter of when, and whether you can speed up the process while not hurting the team's chances for winning games.

He can't post anyone up because he is too weak. Saw him try that a few times recently and it was quite ugly. The announcers even commented on this when he tried to get position on Frye. The only time he can get post position is if he gets a smaller defender on him that wants to contain his deep game.

He has been in a slump the last 3 games from deep and his % went down from 35.5 (good) to 30.5 (not good but good enough for a rookie especially a big) in this short time. He does not really take too many from further back and the couple that he does are no more than heat checks.

I would love more pick and pops but the problem with that is that he sets TERRIBLE picks (most of the time).

I like the new alley oop set plays.

I like any offensive set that will get him highly efficient shots. Him posting up right not is not gonna get him a good shot.

Also, defenders have figured him out a bit and now it will be his turn to adjust.

The other thing that he is sorely missing is a penetrating guard that is also willing to pass the ball to him on the perimeter. We really have nothing close to that.

KP's 3's are here to stay and no non-idiot GM would change that (obviously). He certainly needs to get better at them and get more comfortable in the game flow so that he shoots them in rhythm.

Dirks first year he shot it at 20% and the next year 37%. Nice that the dallas gm was not a clueless tool and left in the 3 point shots.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
martin
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12/22/2015  9:28 PM
mreinman wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
mreinman wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:KP makes himself 6-3 instead of 7-3 when he stands out 30 feet from the basket. He cant get O rebounds hes taking bad shots--I think he needs some stern college like coaching right now. You take bad shots you sit. Do you think Jim Calhoun would sit there and let the kid take 32 footers or long fade-away 2's? No.

now we are up to 32 footers. Nice.

where do you want him? 15 feet from the basket? Doing what? Clogging the lane for everyone else?

You sound like you don't have a clue. This is still a kid!


So why not compromise and set him up for some open midrange shots.

He is clearly hesitant to shoot from behind the arc...and he is frequently shooting from too far beyond it. He will take the shot, but I always sense that he does not really want to be shooting them.

I don't see him moving around as much, and if they don't get him the ball in the post he sometimes moves out of the way and stands to the side while others do their thing.

His game in the post in underdeveloped...and perhaps his leg fatigue might bother him from deep...no reason why they can't get him involved in pick and pops or some of the curls he's scored on.

Do it early in the game to get his confidence going.

Have to hit a certain percentage of 3s to justify taking them...he is not shooting well enough- whatever the reason- for him to be justified in taking them, especially when many seem to be outside of the offensive flow, and more of the "heck I'm free from real deep- guess I'll shoot it" type shots.

If he's not hitting them- they are going to let him continue shooting and missing, and it won't open up the middle of the floor. You have to understand that at some point KP is not going to continue shooting them if he's not confident about making them and his misses are hurting the team.

This is why you see him pass up many of them.

Don't mind him taking them within the flow of the offense where he does not have too much time to think about shooting them. Of note is the fact that the only one he hit vs Orlando was a rushed shot where he had little time to think about it.

Right now the problem is in his head, as much as anything else...same is true for Grant. Both will come around at some point...just a matter of when, and whether you can speed up the process while not hurting the team's chances for winning games.

He can't post anyone up because he is too weak. Saw him try that a few times recently and it was quite ugly. The announcers even commented on this when he tried to get position on Frye. The only time he can get post position is if he gets a smaller defender on him that wants to contain his deep game.

He has been in a slump the last 3 games from deep and his % went down from 35.5 (good) to 30.5 (not good but good enough for a rookie especially a big) in this short time. He does not really take too many from further back and the couple that he does are no more than heat checks.

I would love more pick and pops but the problem with that is that he sets TERRIBLE picks (most of the time).

I like the new alley oop set plays.

I like any offensive set that will get him highly efficient shots. Him posting up right not is not gonna get him a good shot.

Also, defenders have figured him out a bit and now it will be his turn to adjust.

The other thing that he is sorely missing is a penetrating guard that is also willing to pass the ball to him on the perimeter. We really have nothing close to that.

KP's 3's are here to stay and no non-idiot GM would change that (obviously). He certainly needs to get better at them and get more comfortable in the game flow so that he shoots them in rhythm.

Dirks first year he shot it at 20% and the next year 37%. Nice that the dallas gm was not a clueless tool and left in the 3 point shots.

Agreed. Good stuff

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CrushAlot
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12/22/2015  10:29 PM
Any chance Herring's stuff (WSJ) could be added to the Knicks newsfeed on the home page?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
martin
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12/23/2015  12:48 AM
CrushAlot wrote:Any chance Herring's stuff (WSJ) could be added to the Knicks newsfeed on the home page?

I've tried to find a way and can't come up with anything, even emailed them, their tech stuff is not set up right.

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CrushAlot
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12/23/2015  1:21 AM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Any chance Herring's stuff (WSJ) could be added to the Knicks newsfeed on the home page?

I've tried to find a way and can't come up with anything, even emailed them, their tech stuff is not set up right.

You guys are very thorough. Too bad he doesn't publish his knick specific articles in a blog because sometimes writers get around their employers restrictions that way.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Herring: Knicks Effort To Balance Win Now and Development

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