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good quote from isiah...
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raven
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7/19/2004  9:03 AM
...that sums everything up :


"People never come to see the salary cap play, so we don't talk about it that much."
AUTOADVERT
islesfan
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7/19/2004  11:20 AM
How many GM's, other than Isiah, do you know of that don't talk much about the salary cap? That's like a lawyer that doesn't talk much about the law.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
eViL
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7/19/2004  11:33 AM
Posted by islesfan:

How many GM's, other than Isiah, do you know of that don't talk much about the salary cap? That's like a lawyer that doesn't talk much about the law.

This board just got wack. Let the incessant Isiah bashing begin.
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raven
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7/19/2004  12:09 PM
that quote was never intended to bash IT. I respect all the efforts he makes and hopes he'll succeed as we'll do at the same time.

eViL
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7/19/2004  12:26 PM
Raven, I know you weren't bashing IT.

Islesfan is an Isiah hater. Things are gonna get worse around here.
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islesfan
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7/19/2004  12:50 PM
Geez, hello to you too Evil. Have a little faith why don't you.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
raven
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7/19/2004  3:13 PM
how could someone hate IT since all he did untill now was to make us improve ?

Allanfan20
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7/19/2004  3:35 PM
Ask Islesfan, but he does.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Nalod
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7/19/2004  3:43 PM
It easier to become a much better team is you release the purse strings and DOUBLE your cap! Dolan obviously changed his mind over the last year to Spend.

Quite frankly, I don't care how much they spend as long as we are developing young players and bring it to a level we can do more going forward.

We will never be under the cap, but we must make sure we have good contracts and personal to do the sign and trades. Indy wanted stephan Jax and was able to live without harrington, so they added a piece.

If Kobe really wanted to come here, and we had pieces, who knows. There will be other kobes and Shaqs that want to play here, but will we be ready then? Keep talented youth and turn them over for more can bring fruit.

[Edited by - nalod on 07/19/2004 15:48:19]
diderotn
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7/19/2004  8:23 PM
We will have our Kobe and Shaq if not even better. You watch, N.Y is on a comeback.


Posted by Nalod:

It easier to become a much better team is you release the purse strings and DOUBLE your cap! Dolan obviously changed his mind over the last year to Spend.

Quite frankly, I don't care how much they spend as long as we are developing young players and bring it to a level we can do more going forward.

We will never be under the cap, but we must make sure we have good contracts and personal to do the sign and trades. Indy wanted stephan Jax and was able to live without harrington, so they added a piece.

If Kobe really wanted to come here, and we had pieces, who knows. There will be other kobes and Shaqs that want to play here, but will we be ready then? Keep talented youth and turn them over for more can bring fruit.

[Edited by - nalod on 07/19/2004 15:48:19]
The true Knickabocker..........
fishmike
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7/19/2004  10:35 PM
Quite frankly, I don't care how much they spend as long as we are developing young players and bring it to a level we can do more going forward.

man you said it... at one point we had Spree making close to max, Houston about $8mm a year, Childs about $4mm, Ward about $4mm, CHRIS DUDLEY was making $7mm, Ewing was making $16mm, LJ was making well over $12mm, Camby was the only bargain on that team yet I dont remember any fans mentioning that while the winning was nice the salary cap really bothered them.

Its totally premature to evaluate what Isiah has done. I do like that the minute he came in he immediatly put the players fully responsible for the team's "losing atmosphere" and they responded.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
toodarkmark
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7/19/2004  11:26 PM
It took Layden 6 years to run this franchise into the ground. Do you remember what it was like last summer? Do you remember Clarence Weatherspoon getting the 6 years? Do you remember P Ewing for Glen Rice, Luc Longely and Travis Knight? Do you remember Howard Eisley and Shandon Anderson for G Rice? And then the contracts Laydog gave them?

Isiah Thomas has had less than half a year and he has already, in my eyes, started us down a competetive road. Watch out next year when we have Penny, Tim, and Nazzy expiring. We are very close to having one, maybe two bad contracts on the team. And if Alan comes back it will be down to just Moochie. When was the last time you can say that about the Knicks?
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
Bonn1997
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7/20/2004  12:36 AM
Posted by raven:

how could someone hate IT since all he did untill now was to make us improve ?
That's a great question
raven
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7/20/2004  2:21 AM
Posted by Nalod:

It easier to become a much better team is you release the purse strings and DOUBLE your cap! Dolan obviously changed his mind over the last year to Spend.

I have to disagree with you. He's got free hands, I have to admit it. Yet, his choices are, until now and until the contrary is proven, what made us make the playoffs last yr, bring some youth in the team, made us competitive again.

We have a chance to take another step forward this yr. Not so long ago, my only question was not about where we could go up, but if we already had hit the rock bottom.

PLaying for winning is in my mind much different from playing for not losing. That's what IT did, and that don't has a lot to do with free spending.

Maybe you don't like the results, but as for our non s talented old knicks (starks, mason...), you have to like the efforts.



[Edited by - raven on 07/20/2004 11:02:39]
eViL
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7/20/2004  10:35 AM
Check it out: I know I called Islesfan an Isiah-hater earlier. I don't want people to confuse what I say. I don't care if you love him or hate him, but I think people oughta respect him.

Isiah took one of the toughest jobs in the league. He put himself in the spotlight. And he knows that if he fails, he fails on the largest stage to fail on. There's not too many sports execs that would put themselves out there like that. Some might think it's purely self-promotion and while that might be part of it, there's more to it than that.

Isiah understands accountability. He knows that by putting himself in the spotlight and making moves that he is going to be scrutinized. He doesn't shy away from it, he steps up to it; I respect that. And trust me, his players do too. I don't think any of his players forget that he's putting his ass on the line for them. If Isiah wants you and he comes and gets you - you better be ready to play.

Call me a fool, but I believe that psychology is a major factor in sports performance. I believe that when a well-respected and revered legend like Isiah puts his reputation on the line to sign or trade for you - you become better. Granted, I don't think Isiah can make an un-talented player talented - I think he can help a player play up to his talents.

Look at the players he's bringing together: Stephon, TT. Look at the players he's going after: Dampier, Crawford. These guys are all highly criticized (and for good reason). None of these players has met their famed "potential". I think Isiah is trying to light a fire under these guys; to inspire them. I think by way of him putting his ass on the line to acquire these guys, he's making each one of them think to themselves: "If Isiah is willing to risk his reputation for me, I'm going to do everything I can do to prove him right."

There is a confidence about Isiah that distinguishes him from his predecessor. There is league-wide respect for his achievements in the game. When Isiah has his squad put together, each player is going to have the confidence in knowing that someone (and not just anyone, but a legend) believes enough in them to risk his own ass by acquiring them.

So maybe I think we're going to end up over-paying for Dampier and possibly Crawford. I'm not blind, I can see that. I don't love Isiah blindly, but I believe in his approach. If he can't be a cap-crunching rebuilder like Kiki, he's going to be an inspirational leader like he's always been.

He's a man players respect. And I think fans that hate him blindly are just a wrong as fans that love him unconditionally. I'll criticize him if he fails, but he hasn't. I'll congratulate him if he succeeds, when he does. Until then, I'm going to respect the man that took the hardest job in the NBA without fear and brought confidence back to the Knicks.

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
raven
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7/20/2004  11:06 AM
Posted by eViL:

And I think fans that hate him blindly are just a wrong as fans that love him unconditionally. I'll criticize him if he fails, but he hasn't. I'll congratulate him if he succeeds, when he does. Until then, I'm going to respect the man that took the hardest job in the NBA without fear and brought confidence back to the Knicks.

Great post Evil.
I wish my english skills allowed me to say things that way.
Knicksfan
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7/20/2004  11:33 AM
Posted by eViL:

Check it out: I know I called Islesfan an Isiah-hater earlier. I don't want people to confuse what I say. I don't care if you love him or hate him, but I think people oughta respect him.

Isiah took one of the toughest jobs in the league. He put himself in the spotlight. And he knows that if he fails, he fails on the largest stage to fail on. There's not too many sports execs that would put themselves out there like that. Some might think it's purely self-promotion and while that might be part of it, there's more to it than that.

Isiah understands accountability. He knows that by putting himself in the spotlight and making moves that he is going to be scrutinized. He doesn't shy away from it, he steps up to it; I respect that. And trust me, his players do too. I don't think any of his players forget that he's putting his ass on the line for them. If Isiah wants you and he comes and gets you - you better be ready to play.

Call me a fool, but I believe that psychology is a major factor in sports performance. I believe that when a well-respected and revered legend like Isiah puts his reputation on the line to sign or trade for you - you become better. Granted, I don't think Isiah can make an un-talented player talented - I think he can help a player play up to his talents.

Look at the players he's bringing together: Stephon, TT. Look at the players he's going after: Dampier, Crawford. These guys are all highly criticized (and for good reason). None of these players has met their famed "potential". I think Isiah is trying to light a fire under these guys; to inspire them. I think by way of him putting his ass on the line to acquire these guys, he's making each one of them think to themselves: "If Isiah is willing to risk his reputation for me, I'm going to do everything I can do to prove him right."

There is a confidence about Isiah that distinguishes him from his predecessor. There is league-wide respect for his achievements in the game. When Isiah has his squad put together, each player is going to have the confidence in knowing that someone (and not just anyone, but a legend) believes enough in them to risk his own ass by acquiring them.

So maybe I think we're going to end up over-paying for Dampier and possibly Crawford. I'm not blind, I can see that. I don't love Isiah blindly, but I believe in his approach. If he can't be a cap-crunching rebuilder like Kiki, he's going to be an inspirational leader like he's always been.

He's a man players respect. And I think fans that hate him blindly are just a wrong as fans that love him unconditionally. I'll criticize him if he fails, but he hasn't. I'll congratulate him if he succeeds, when he does. Until then, I'm going to respect the man that took the hardest job in the NBA without fear and brought confidence back to the Knicks.

I agree. Great post eViL.
Knicks_Fan
fahkyu911
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7/20/2004  11:46 AM
where is the improvement? all the hype with marbury and they had the same record they had the year earlier. Where are all the stars that isiah promised this off season. he's done the same crappy job that layden has. the team is way over the cap and that is why they have to beg other teams to trade with them but no other team wants the knicks garbage.
Knicksfan
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7/20/2004  12:02 PM
Posted by fahkyu911:

where is the improvement? all the hype with marbury and they had the same record they had the year earlier. Where are all the stars that isiah promised this off season. he's done the same crappy job that layden has. the team is way over the cap and that is why they have to beg other teams to trade with them but no other team wants the knicks garbage.

First, they had a better record post-Marbury than pre-Marbury. It could have even be a better one but we traded for potential in TT and Nazr and still made the playoffs. The record could have been very similar to the one of last season, but we were a winning team after Marbury came, and that was without a healthy Houston. That also was with a new coach and without training camp, which IMO is very important for the team's chemestry and play. Even without changes we could be a better team with a better record than last season.

About Isiah, you are very tough with him. His job is very difficult and he is trying his hardest to make the team better. We have had a lot of real chances of making deals, something very different than with Layden. Where are the all-stars Isiah promised this offseason? I don't know what you are talking about because even Isiah said that it was going to be very difficult to change the team. Isiah isn't almighty. He can't change what happened before and suddenly have the team under the cap because we are the product of years of bad decisions. Isiah is trying to improve the team accepting the actual state of the team. Its easy to critizise Isiah when you are not in his shoes.
Knicks_Fan
Nalod
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7/20/2004  12:34 PM
Well put!
good quote from isiah...

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