Tonight the Knicks took more of those open 3 pt shots. They went 12-27, 44.4%! They have this option every night. It's just a matter of being confident and taking the shots when they're open.
The normal motion in the Triangle should lead to perimeter players being open behind the 3 pt line all game. As long as players are keeping the proper spacing, which they did tonight.

nixluva wrote:I've been saying that it's really up to the players to decide to take more 3's or not. There's really nothing in the Triangle that prohibits 3 pt shooting.

A 3-pointer is just another kind of good opportunity.

You take what the defense gives you. The Triangle forces the defense to ALWAYS give you something.

Then you have to convert that . . .

nixluva wrote:It's been a running theme that the Triangle somehow holds the Knicks back from taking 3 point shots. I've been saying that it's really up to the players to decide to take more 3's or not. There's really nothing in the Triangle that prohibits 3 pt shooting. There is always the option to stay behind the 3 point line when running the Triangle and keeping that spacing.

Tonight the Knicks took more of those open 3 pt shots. They went 12-27, 44.4%! They have this option every night. It's just a matter of being confident and taking the shots when they're open.
The normal motion in the Triangle should lead to perimeter players being open behind the 3 pt line all game. As long as players are keeping the proper spacing, which they did tonight.

You would know this better than me, but the ability to hold position in the pinch post would probably be the most conducive to spreading the floor. When Kobe joked we didn't have a triangle, we had a square, rotations out of the pinch weren't quickly replaced -- creating a 4/1 offense. This is really a zinger/Melo/Afflalo issue as one of them ought to be on the block while creating that spacing. But, without a legitimate post threat (Melo is fine, Zinger is not yet and I haven't seen enough Afflalo in the post to tell whether it works), there is no need for help defense which would open up the floor.

When Melo and Zing really gel in that 2 man game this is gonna be more fun to watch. I like Afflalo, buy a dynamic 2 (Derozan?) would really solidify this core. Add a 3D PG and we are competitive.

EwingsGlass wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's been a running theme that the Triangle somehow holds the Knicks back from taking 3 point shots. I've been saying that it's really up to the players to decide to take more 3's or not. There's really nothing in the Triangle that prohibits 3 pt shooting. There is always the option to stay behind the 3 point line when running the Triangle and keeping that spacing.

Tonight the Knicks took more of those open 3 pt shots. They went 12-27, 44.4%! They have this option every night. It's just a matter of being confident and taking the shots when they're open.
The normal motion in the Triangle should lead to perimeter players being open behind the 3 pt line all game. As long as players are keeping the proper spacing, which they did tonight.

You would know this better than me, but the ability to hold position in the pinch post would probably be the most conducive to spreading the floor. When Kobe joked we didn't have a triangle, we had a square, rotations out of the pinch weren't quickly replaced -- creating a 4/1 offense. This is really a zinger/Melo/Afflalo issue as one of them ought to be on the block while creating that spacing. But, without a legitimate post threat (Melo is fine, Zinger is not yet and I haven't seen enough Afflalo in the post to tell whether it works), there is no need for help defense which would open up the floor.

When Melo and Zing really gel in that 2 man game this is gonna be more fun to watch. I like Afflalo, buy a dynamic 2 (Derozan?) would really solidify this core. Add a 3D PG and we are competitive.

Yeah this is just getting started. You can see the corrections being made to the poor spacing and lack of pushing the pace. It takes time to get a group of men to think as a group and execute properly in the Triangle or any system.

Before Phil makes any serious roster moves he has to be confident that he's seeing the best this group can play. Then you really know for sure what you need to try and improve roster wise. Jerian is starting to come around offensively. This needs more time. That isn't the way most fans think but it's the truth.

meloanyk wrote:Grant is starting to hit some J'S but he's still a work in progress. Takes time for system to be learned and young players to develop as you say. Im hazy on Grant, has that high dribble that is prone to reads and doesnt appear to have the advertised athleticism besides the questionable J. Gets to rim with body but I dont see the lift but some decent finishes . Think he will get better but dont think he develops into a above average pg. Hope Im wrong

I see more from Jerian. I think people forget how big Jerian is. He's a touch over 6-4! Most of the PG's he faces are shorter. He will have to adjust his high dribble. It's rare for a PG to come in with his jumper at a high level if he's got good the quickness and athletic ability to get to the rim. Jerian isn't elite in his handle, speed or athletic ability but he's got plus ability in that regard and that along with a high IQ says to me he's gonna be very good. Jerian has got enough quickness and hops along with his size to be a very good PG.

Jerian has a very good BB IQ already. Just go back and look at the last game and how many of his brilliant passes were wasted! Jerian is a sneaky good PG that is still developing. He still has a lot to learn about the game and how best to run his team and be an impact player. I've compared him to Mike Conley and I feel even more strongly that is where he's headed as a player.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

meloanyk wrote:Grant is starting to hit some J'S but he's still a work in progress. Takes time for system to be learned and young players to develop as you say. Im hazy on Grant, has that high dribble that is prone to reads and doesnt appear to have the advertised athleticism besides the questionable J. Gets to rim with body but I dont see the lift but some decent finishes . Think he will get better but dont think he develops into a above average pg. Hope Im wrong

I see more from Jerian. I think people forget how big Jerian is. He's a touch over 6-4! Most of the PG's he faces are shorter. He will have to adjust his high dribble. It's rare for a PG to come in with his jumper at a high level if he's got good the quickness and athletic ability to get to the rim. Jerian isn't elite in his handle, speed or athletic ability but he's got plus ability in that regard and that along with a high IQ says to me he's gonna be very good. Jerian has got enough quickness and hops along with his size to be a very good PG.

Jerian has a very good BB IQ already. Just go back and look at the last game and how many of his brilliant passes were wasted! Jerian is a sneaky good PG that is still developing. He still has a lot to learn about the game and how best to run his team and be an impact player. I've compared him to Mike Conley and I feel even more strongly that is where he's headed as a player.

his improvement starts with his dribble and his ability to stay in front of his man. i am not convinced of his defensive acuity just yet. he needs to be a positive on that side of the ball and i have not seen it.

still a bad defender but definitely giving more effort. Probably some of the lopez effect.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:Lets see how this trends. Seems like the triangle creates a lot mid range shots and Afflalo stated this pretty clearly as well. 27 shots from 3 is good.

You keep saying this and others keep parroting this idea, but in reality it's the players that decide what shots they get. There is no reason they can't get a decent amount of 3pt shots up every game. There are no rules against taking 3's and the general spacing actually puts guys in position for taking 3's if they move and move the ball.

The biggest issue is for this team to push and look for early offense before the defense gets set. Then only slowing down into the Triangle actions after they've probed the defense looking for early offense. The normal Triangle spacing has 3 players outside the 3pt line and that 4th player normally a Forward who is on the weak side and will be there for the 2 man game, but he has the option of stepping back behind the line as well. That is usually a forward like KP or DWill. That is how you can quickly end up with a 4 out 1 in alignment with no significant changes to the offense. They don't have to do it every single time down for it to be an effective option, which is what we've seen.

Afflalo said this. I have no idea, I just listen to what many smart guys have to say.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:Lets see how this trends. Seems like the triangle creates a lot mid range shots and Afflalo stated this pretty clearly as well. 27 shots from 3 is good.

You keep saying this and others keep parroting this idea, but in reality it's the players that decide what shots they get. There is no reason they can't get a decent amount of 3pt shots up every game. There are no rules against taking 3's and the general spacing actually puts guys in position for taking 3's if they move and move the ball.

The biggest issue is for this team to push and look for early offense before the defense gets set. Then only slowing down into the Triangle actions after they've probed the defense looking for early offense. The normal Triangle spacing has 3 players outside the 3pt line and that 4th player normally a Forward who is on the weak side and will be there for the 2 man game, but he has the option of stepping back behind the line as well. That is usually a forward like KP or DWill. That is how you can quickly end up with a 4 out 1 in alignment with no significant changes to the offense. They don't have to do it every single time down for it to be an effective option, which is what we've seen.

Afflalo said this. I have no idea, I just listen to what many smart guys have to say.

Look the offense is called the Triple Post Offense and was created decades before there was a 3pt line. Posting up is a huge part of the offense and those kinds of plays in the mid range areas of the floor are builtin into the offense but they are simply guidelines and not hard and fast rules about which shots the players can take. Stop overemphasizing comments and use your eyes. There are ample opportunities to take 3pt shots in this offense, but the PLAYERS have to want to take those shots.

I've said this over and over that if you want to take a mid range shot in this offense it will give you a great look so a lot of times our players have taken those looks, but they also have 3pt opportunities in this offense as well. As I said every single time down the spacing starts with players behind the 3pt line. The normal motion in the offense creates cuts to the basket or for players to flash or curl into the mid range for shots, but ALSO to cut to the corners for 3 or reverse the ball back up top for a 3.

the charts are cool and all but again, we need to see where this trends. I predict that we will continue to lead the league in the mid range shot attempts at an inefficient rate.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:Lets see how this trends. Seems like the triangle creates a lot mid range shots and Afflalo stated this pretty clearly as well. 27 shots from 3 is good.

You keep saying this and others keep parroting this idea, but in reality it's the players that decide what shots they get. There is no reason they can't get a decent amount of 3pt shots up every game. There are no rules against taking 3's and the general spacing actually puts guys in position for taking 3's if they move and move the ball.

The biggest issue is for this team to push and look for early offense before the defense gets set. Then only slowing down into the Triangle actions after they've probed the defense looking for early offense. The normal Triangle spacing has 3 players outside the 3pt line and that 4th player normally a Forward who is on the weak side and will be there for the 2 man game, but he has the option of stepping back behind the line as well. That is usually a forward like KP or DWill. That is how you can quickly end up with a 4 out 1 in alignment with no significant changes to the offense. They don't have to do it every single time down for it to be an effective option, which is what we've seen.

Afflalo said this. I have no idea, I just listen to what many smart guys have to say.

Look the offense is called the Triple Post Offense and was created decades before there was a 3pt line. Posting up is a huge part of the offense and those kinds of plays in the mid range areas of the floor are builtin into the offense but they are simply guidelines and not hard and fast rules about which shots the players can take. Stop overemphasizing comments and use your eyes. There are ample opportunities to take 3pt shots in this offense, but the PLAYERS have to want to take those shots.

I've said this over and over that if you want to take a mid range shot in this offense it will give you a great look so a lot of times our players have taken those looks, but they also have 3pt opportunities in this offense as well. As I said every single time down the spacing starts with players behind the 3pt line. The normal motion in the offense creates cuts to the basket or for players to flash or curl into the mid range for shots, but ALSO to cut to the corners for 3 or reverse the ball back up top for a 3.

the charts are cool and all but again, we need to see where this trends. I predict that we will continue to lead the league in the mid range shot attempts at an inefficient rate.

This isn't a team that is gonna lead the league in 3 pt attempts but they should increase the number of 3's they take. They took 27 last night and 25 tonight. They just didn't make many tonight.

the triangle seems to create fewer open 3's then the pnr / drive and kick game. It also seems to create fewer shots at the rim. Of course personnel makes a difference but still really don't like what we are getting. Again, I am no guru but the numbers need to trend differently then what it is now.