arkrud wrote:Probably he is in top 50 in NBA the way he plays now.
There are 2-3 players on every other NBA team who are playing better that him.
But still he is our best player.
The good question is are we better off with him or without as far as development of the team play and individual players goes?
The main goal Knicks have now is to develop the team of the future.
Is Melo helping the process?

Start with answering your own questions.

Ar you a sink or swim guy? Do you think Porzingis and Grant and Galloway will benefit from having a shoulder a heavier load right now?

Do you think perhaps being in position to win a few more games will pay off in those players growing up in a more positive environment/culture?

Will MAYBE playing a few postseason games this year be of any benefit?

arkrud wrote:I cannot see any problem with the young players to get more touches and shots as well as more responsibility.
If Melo will be a player who letting other play instead of pudding his numbers and his brand I would be OK with this kind of veteran/star.
But Melo needs to win and win soon. This makes it a bad match for him and Knicks.
Completely different goals.
Both sides lose so we fans lose too.

Melo knew all this when he signed with the Knicks a year ago and asked for a no-trade clause.

Are we pretending something has changed since then?

By all means let's indulge in the fantasy that if fans make enough threads on message boards, Melo is going to be motivated to ask for a trade.

That'll work.

Really, really wanting Stoudemire to go away and talking about it all the proved so effective, I can see why this is such a popular premise.

arkrud wrote:Probably he is in top 50 in NBA the way he plays now.
There are 2-3 players on every other NBA team who are playing better that him.
But still he is our best player.
The good question is are we better off with him or without as far as development of the team play and individual players goes?
The main goal Knicks have now is to develop the team of the future.
Is Melo helping the process?

We are in position financially to add another big time player tobthisbcore group. Giving us KP, Melo, FA and a good group of young role players.

We can't trade Melo unless he wants it. And if we do trade him I want a proven commodity back. So we can maintain our ability to have a 3 headed monster. Rather then depending on KP to have to carry a team on his back.

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:Probably he is in top 50 in NBA the way he plays now.
There are 2-3 players on every other NBA team who are playing better that him.
But still he is our best player.
The good question is are we better off with him or without as far as development of the team play and individual players goes?
The main goal Knicks have now is to develop the team of the future.
Is Melo helping the process?

How long have you been watching the sport of basketball?..Or have you ever played the game yourself?

Do you understand what happens when a player doesn't play for three days to a week?

LeBron is shooting 11% from the three..James Harden is shooting 16% from the three and under 30% overall..Anthony Davis looks atrocious..I can go on....U think it will remain that way?

Do you notice KP is only on the floor when Melo is out there and why is that?..Do you notice KP is usually wide open when he gets the ball and do you know why that is?

No doubt it takes time for players to get back to their top shape and game level.
My issue is what the point of this in general.
Lets assume Melo is back to his usual self 25 points on 46% and 8 rebounds playing 40+ min...
We will win 30-35 to everyone frustration.
A lot of people are talking about Melo buying in... What ithis actually means?

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:Probably he is in top 50 in NBA the way he plays now.
There are 2-3 players on every other NBA team who are playing better that him.
But still he is our best player.
The good question is are we better off with him or without as far as development of the team play and individual players goes?
The main goal Knicks have now is to develop the team of the future.
Is Melo helping the process?

How long have you been watching the sport of basketball?..Or have you ever played the game yourself?

Do you understand what happens when a player doesn't play for three days to a week?

My issue with Melo at this point in a very young season is that he has seemingly not made adjustments or concessions to address the fact that he is not the old Melo at this stage of his recovery.

He has to recognize what he is able to do on a particular night and compensate accordingly.

As opposed to your issues with Melo in the off season and your issues with Melo last season?

Here is where you might appear foolish...because, as I've also said, he is not at 100% this season because of decisions made last season...so there is no "opposed" in this respect.

He was not playing/practicing for a long time because he was not medically cleared...Decisions made last year influenced his readiness this year...or is the time frame too large for you to comprehend. Do YOU understand what happens when a player doesn't play for months?

Completely avoided my comment, by the way, or are you just in trolling mode?

Perhaps you're the one who doesn't understand injuries, recovery time, and making adjustments due to physical limitations.

I'm optimistic that he will recover to some extent, but at this juncture in the season Anthony is not able to do the things he has done in the past. Should he take this into consideration in his decision making on the court?

A man has to know his limitations...good advice for you too.

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:Probably he is in top 50 in NBA the way he plays now.
There are 2-3 players on every other NBA team who are playing better that him.
But still he is our best player.
The good question is are we better off with him or without as far as development of the team play and individual players goes?
The main goal Knicks have now is to develop the team of the future.
Is Melo helping the process?

How long have you been watching the sport of basketball?..Or have you ever played the game yourself?

Do you understand what happens when a player doesn't play for three days to a week?

LeBron is shooting 11% from the three..James Harden is shooting 16% from the three and under 30% overall..Anthony Davis looks atrocious..I can go on....U think it will remain that way?

Do you notice KP is only on the floor when Melo is out there and why is that?..Do you notice KP is usually wide open when he gets the ball and do you know why that is?

No doubt it takes time for players to get back to their top shape and game level.
My issue is what the point of this in general.
Lets assume Melo is back to his usual self 25 points on 46% and 8 rebounds playing 40+ min...
We will win 30-35 to everyone frustration.
A lot of people are talking about Melo buying in... What ithis actually means?

I think the Knicks should trade Melo...I love the NBA game..I want to see good players on good teams compete in the playoffs and ultimately the Finals...But you aren't looking at it this way, you are some how making it about Melo..Trying to imply he hurts the team which isn't true...As a Knick fan, I really didn't like watching a 17 win team..I don't want to see another 20 win team...This team without Melo is garbage...We have one legit NBA starter..ONE..What future??

Now you are talking.
For Melo sake not Knicks sake he should find himself better chance to win.
If you a fan of him you should not want him to waste the last productive years of his carrier on rebuilding team.
Taking 2 max contracts in a row and depleting the team of talent in the process wan't a smart decision on his part.
he was simply used by Dolan to make a bunch of money on his brand and rob him form greatness and championship aspirations.
Sometimes it is better to part ways for the sake of both sides.
Unfortunately Melo choose money over greatness. It was and still is his choice.

Their was and continues to be a failure of management around him to bring in players to compete...So it is better for both sides to part ways...My reluctance lie in not wanting to see bad basketball like last year...We currently don't have good players...We don't have a draft pick, so what's the point really..If anything Melo is protecting KP..U think KP is ready to have two guys running at him??..It could destroy his confidence..It's why he basically is on the court only when Melo is there...

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:Probably he is in top 50 in NBA the way he plays now.
There are 2-3 players on every other NBA team who are playing better that him.
But still he is our best player.
The good question is are we better off with him or without as far as development of the team play and individual players goes?
The main goal Knicks have now is to develop the team of the future.
Is Melo helping the process?

How long have you been watching the sport of basketball?..Or have you ever played the game yourself?

Do you understand what happens when a player doesn't play for three days to a week?

LeBron is shooting 11% from the three..James Harden is shooting 16% from the three and under 30% overall..Anthony Davis looks atrocious..I can go on....U think it will remain that way?

Do you notice KP is only on the floor when Melo is out there and why is that?..Do you notice KP is usually wide open when he gets the ball and do you know why that is?

No doubt it takes time for players to get back to their top shape and game level.
My issue is what the point of this in general.
Lets assume Melo is back to his usual self 25 points on 46% and 8 rebounds playing 40+ min...
We will win 30-35 to everyone frustration.
A lot of people are talking about Melo buying in... What ithis actually means?

I think the Knicks should trade Melo...I love the NBA game..I want to see good players on good teams compete in the playoffs and ultimately the Finals...But you aren't looking at it this way, you are some how making it about Melo..Trying to imply he hurts the team which isn't true...As a Knick fan, I really didn't like watching a 17 win team..I don't want to see another 20 win team...This team without Melo is garbage...We have one legit NBA starter..ONE..What future??

Now you are talking.
For Melo sake not Knicks sake he should find himself better chance to win.
If you a fan of him you should not want him to waste the last productive years of his carrier on rebuilding team.
Taking 2 max contracts in a row and depleting the team of talent in the process wan't a smart decision on his part.
he was simply used by Dolan to make a bunch of money on his brand and rob him form greatness and championship aspirations.
Sometimes it is better to part ways for the sake of both sides.
Unfortunately Melo choose money over greatness. It was and still is his choice.

Their was and continues to be a failure of management around him to bring in players to compete...So it is better for both sides to part ways...My reluctance lie in not wanting to see bad basketball like last year...We currently don't have good players...We don't have a draft pick, so what's the point really..If anything Melo is protecting KP..U think KP is ready to have two guys running at him??..It could destroy his confidence..It's why he basically is on the court only when Melo is there...

KP is a strong character player. So are most players we have on this roster.
They play hard and leave it all there.
The losing will not affect them - it will make them even stronger and better.
They are not against the wall to win now.
I don't mind Melo to be a mentor and lead by example. But I cannot see this in him.
It is not for everyone. Not everyone can be Jason Kidd or Tim Dunkin, or even Fisher.

Strong character doesn't win basketball games, talent does...We are currently on pace to win 33 games...Subtract Melo, it becomes 23 games...We have one player with real upside...So you think Melo is some how in his way??

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:Probably he is in top 50 in NBA the way he plays now.
There are 2-3 players on every other NBA team who are playing better that him.
But still he is our best player.
The good question is are we better off with him or without as far as development of the team play and individual players goes?
The main goal Knicks have now is to develop the team of the future.
Is Melo helping the process?

How long have you been watching the sport of basketball?..Or have you ever played the game yourself?

Do you understand what happens when a player doesn't play for three days to a week?

LeBron is shooting 11% from the three..James Harden is shooting 16% from the three and under 30% overall..Anthony Davis looks atrocious..I can go on....U think it will remain that way?

Do you notice KP is only on the floor when Melo is out there and why is that?..Do you notice KP is usually wide open when he gets the ball and do you know why that is?

No doubt it takes time for players to get back to their top shape and game level.
My issue is what the point of this in general.
Lets assume Melo is back to his usual self 25 points on 46% and 8 rebounds playing 40+ min...
We will win 30-35 to everyone frustration.
A lot of people are talking about Melo buying in... What ithis actually means?

I think the Knicks should trade Melo...I love the NBA game..I want to see good players on good teams compete in the playoffs and ultimately the Finals...But you aren't looking at it this way, you are some how making it about Melo..Trying to imply he hurts the team which isn't true...As a Knick fan, I really didn't like watching a 17 win team..I don't want to see another 20 win team...This team without Melo is garbage...We have one legit NBA starter..ONE..What future??

Now you are talking.
For Melo sake not Knicks sake he should find himself better chance to win.
If you a fan of him you should not want him to waste the last productive years of his carrier on rebuilding team.
Taking 2 max contracts in a row and depleting the team of talent in the process wan't a smart decision on his part.
he was simply used by Dolan to make a bunch of money on his brand and rob him form greatness and championship aspirations.
Sometimes it is better to part ways for the sake of both sides.
Unfortunately Melo choose money over greatness. It was and still is his choice.

Their was and continues to be a failure of management around him to bring in players to compete...So it is better for both sides to part ways...My reluctance lie in not wanting to see bad basketball like last year...We currently don't have good players...We don't have a draft pick, so what's the point really..If anything Melo is protecting KP..U think KP is ready to have two guys running at him??..It could destroy his confidence..It's why he basically is on the court only when Melo is there...

Very well said. This is my point as well. KP needs to come along slowly and Melo helps with that. He is not ready to be "the guy" yet, and Melo keeps his development process moving at the right rate. In addition, we all know the draft pick situation, so trading him doesn't help a damn thing. We can argue it would hurt chemistry, short term success, and long term success as well if KP is put in a tough situation too soon. For better or for worse, Melo is this team's leader and ambassador for our young guys.

Playing with a guy that continues to chuck up shots, while you are wide open, doesn't help your confidence. KP is better off playing without Melo. He's better off playing with Grant and others who plays team ball. Thats when you will see KP rise even faster than what he's doing now.

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:Probably he is in top 50 in NBA the way he plays now.
There are 2-3 players on every other NBA team who are playing better that him.
But still he is our best player.
The good question is are we better off with him or without as far as development of the team play and individual players goes?
The main goal Knicks have now is to develop the team of the future.
Is Melo helping the process?

How long have you been watching the sport of basketball?..Or have you ever played the game yourself?

Do you understand what happens when a player doesn't play for three days to a week?

LeBron is shooting 11% from the three..James Harden is shooting 16% from the three and under 30% overall..Anthony Davis looks atrocious..I can go on....U think it will remain that way?

Do you notice KP is only on the floor when Melo is out there and why is that?..Do you notice KP is usually wide open when he gets the ball and do you know why that is?

No doubt it takes time for players to get back to their top shape and game level.
My issue is what the point of this in general.
Lets assume Melo is back to his usual self 25 points on 46% and 8 rebounds playing 40+ min...
We will win 30-35 to everyone frustration.
A lot of people are talking about Melo buying in... What ithis actually means?

I think the Knicks should trade Melo...I love the NBA game..I want to see good players on good teams compete in the playoffs and ultimately the Finals...But you aren't looking at it this way, you are some how making it about Melo..Trying to imply he hurts the team which isn't true...As a Knick fan, I really didn't like watching a 17 win team..I don't want to see another 20 win team...This team without Melo is garbage...We have one legit NBA starter..ONE..What future??

Now you are talking.
For Melo sake not Knicks sake he should find himself better chance to win.
If you a fan of him you should not want him to waste the last productive years of his carrier on rebuilding team.
Taking 2 max contracts in a row and depleting the team of talent in the process wan't a smart decision on his part.
he was simply used by Dolan to make a bunch of money on his brand and rob him form greatness and championship aspirations.
Sometimes it is better to part ways for the sake of both sides.
Unfortunately Melo choose money over greatness. It was and still is his choice.

Their was and continues to be a failure of management around him to bring in players to compete...So it is better for both sides to part ways...My reluctance lie in not wanting to see bad basketball like last year...We currently don't have good players...We don't have a draft pick, so what's the point really..If anything Melo is protecting KP..U think KP is ready to have two guys running at him??..It could destroy his confidence..It's why he basically is on the court only when Melo is there...

Very well said. This is my point as well. KP needs to come along slowly and Melo helps with that. He is not ready to be "the guy" yet, and Melo keeps his development process moving at the right rate. In addition, we all know the draft pick situation, so trading him doesn't help a damn thing. We can argue it would hurt chemistry, short term success, and long term success as well if KP is put in a tough situation too soon. For better or for worse, Melo is this team's leader and ambassador for our young guys.

Playing with a guy that continues to chuck up shots, while you are wide open, doesn't help your confidence. KP is better off playing without Melo. He's better off playing with Grant and others who plays team ball. Thats when you will see KP rise even faster than what he's doing now.

You ever thought the reason he is wide open is because there a two guys constantly worried about what Melo is doing??...

What Melo needs to do is use it better, but when Chuck finishes his lunch Im sure he will start a new thread or two on the subject