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Calderon
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Knicks1969
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10/20/2015  12:04 PM
Has he done enough to deserve a starting spot? From the game I've seen, he was badly outplayed by Grant, Galloway, and even Trice. I do t know why Phil and Fisher are adamant about giving this dude minutes. When he is on the court, the rhythm is slower then It needs to be; furthermore, our perimeter defense is as bad as it was last year.
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
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WaltLongmire
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10/20/2015  12:28 PM
By starting him they will give him the rope to either hang himself or allow him to pull himself out of the hole he created last year and resurrect his career.

For me the best case situation is one where he, Gallo, and Grant all play well, and we trade Calderon at the trade deadline, BUT if he plays well and the team is better with him on the court, while the Killer Gs provide second unit brilliance, I'll be happy.

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fishmike
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10/20/2015  12:50 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:By starting him they will give him the rope to either hang himself or allow him to pull himself out of the hole he created last year and resurrect his career.

For me the best case situation is one where he, Gallo, and Grant all play well, and we trade Calderon at the trade deadline, BUT if he plays well and the team is better with him on the court, while the Killer Gs provide second unit brilliance, I'll be happy.

yea this is not hard to figure out.. Calderon is a vet, doesnt make mistakes and is probably our best shooter. When the kids start to outplay him the changing of the guard will happen.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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10/20/2015  12:50 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:By starting him they will give him the rope to either hang himself or allow him to pull himself out of the hole he created last year and resurrect his career.

For me the best case situation is one where he, Gallo, and Grant all play well, and we trade Calderon at the trade deadline, BUT if he plays well and the team is better with him on the court, while the Killer Gs provide second unit brilliance, I'll be happy.

Yes, and the important part is how many minutes each of those guys get. Got no problem Caleron starting at first, he's gonna get some minutes at some point in game, but how many minutes Grant/Gallo get, especially if they really getting into it defensively.

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GustavBahler
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10/20/2015  1:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2015  1:07 PM
Ive heard that it usually takes older vets until January to really get into game shape. That still leaves about 6 months before the playoffs for Calderon to get hurt or just wear out. If Grant shows that he is up to it, I would start cutting back on Calderon's PT at that point, and give Grant the bulk of the minutes at PG. Games get more intense in the playoffs, makes no sense to wear a 34 year old PG out before then.
Finestrg
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10/20/2015  1:08 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:By starting him they will give him the rope to either hang himself or allow him to pull himself out of the hole he created last year and resurrect his career.

For me the best case situation is one where he, Gallo, and Grant all play well, and we trade Calderon at the trade deadline, BUT if he plays well and the team is better with him on the court, while the Killer Gs provide second unit brilliance, I'll be happy.

Nothing personal--I think Jose's an upbeat guy, I've even commented that he might make a good coach some day--but I just don't care for his game, esp. at his advanced game. I pretty much agree though--he's probably best served as the starting point right now. Either he plays well or Grant's in right away. I like that we can sub in a more talented/quicker/more dynamic point guard should he falter. Also like to ease Grant into it with less pressure (I don't like Porzingis starting for several reasons--this is one of them) and I like Grant with the reserves on that 2nd unit.

herkyJerky
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10/20/2015  1:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2015  1:22 PM
Calderon is less likely to turn the ball over than Grant, much less likely. I really like Grant, but I've already seen him turn the ball over a bunch. In time Grant will clean that up. But until then, for the start of the season we have to go with the vet who's far less likely to turn it over. I'd rather deal with his defense and let guys like Afflalo, KP and RoLo pick up the slack than turn the ball over a bunch of times at the start of games and give the opponent all the tempo and pace right from the get-go. Plus he's a pretty damn good shooter.

Galloway, on the other hand, doesn't turn the ball over as much. But I really like the way he and Grant play together, so for now they should both run the 2nd Unit. That's just my opinion. Basically what it comes down to is that for right now I do not want to split up the Grant Gallo combo. And I want to minimize the chances of sloppy play at the start of games. Calderon starting at the point gives us the best chances of that, at least for now.

If it ain't broke, don't break it. - Charles 'The REAL Sir Charles' Oakley.
FireWoodson
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10/20/2015  1:25 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
he was badly outplayed by Grant, Galloway, and even Trice.

He was also badly outplayed by Roger Federer in his later years. He knew when to quit in that sport, why the hell is he hanging on in basketball?

GustavBahler
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10/20/2015  1:33 PM
FireWoodson wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:
he was badly outplayed by Grant, Galloway, and even Trice.

He was also badly outplayed by Roger Federer in his later years. He knew when to quit in that sport, why the hell is he hanging on in basketball?

Got to see Sampras beat Lendl in 90' at the US open which was his breakout performance. Never seen anyone serve like that.

FireWoodson
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10/20/2015  1:38 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Got to see Sampras beat Lendl in 90' at the US open which was his breakout performance.

Damn, wish I were there to see that. All I get to see is Pete Sampras putting up brick after brick or throwing passes to Melo that end up in the third row.
crzymdups
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10/20/2015  1:45 PM
fishmike wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:By starting him they will give him the rope to either hang himself or allow him to pull himself out of the hole he created last year and resurrect his career.

For me the best case situation is one where he, Gallo, and Grant all play well, and we trade Calderon at the trade deadline, BUT if he plays well and the team is better with him on the court, while the Killer Gs provide second unit brilliance, I'll be happy.

yea this is not hard to figure out.. Calderon is a vet, doesnt make mistakes and is probably our best shooter. When the kids start to outplay him the changing of the guard will happen.

Agreed.

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GustavBahler
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10/20/2015  1:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2015  1:50 PM
FireWoodson wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Got to see Sampras beat Lendl in 90' at the US open which was his breakout performance.

Damn, wish I were there to see that. All I get to see is Pete Sampras putting up brick after brick or throwing passes to Melo that end up in the third row.

I do see an improvement from last season. Its still early, so Im not concerned at this point. When Calderon is healthy, he is one of the better shooters in the league as far as efficiency is concerned. That would be a real bonus if we made the playoffs, but it wont matter if Jose runs out of gas before then.

Finestrg
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10/20/2015  2:09 PM
herkyJerky wrote:Calderon is less likely to turn the ball over than Grant, much less likely. I really like Grant, but I've already seen him turn the ball over a bunch. In time Grant will clean that up. But until then, for the start of the season we have to go with the vet who's far less likely to turn it over. I'd rather deal with his defense and let guys like Afflalo, KP and RoLo pick up the slack than turn the ball over a bunch of times at the start of games and give the opponent all the tempo and pace right from the get-go. Plus he's a pretty damn good shooter.

Galloway, on the other hand, doesn't turn the ball over as much. But I really like the way he and Grant play together, so for now they should both run the 2nd Unit. That's just my opinion. Basically what it comes down to is that for right now I do not want to split up the Grant Gallo combo. And I want to minimize the chances of sloppy play at the start of games. Calderon starting at the point gives us the best chances of that, at least for now.

Really? Disagree here--a main reason I don't care for him. I think he's very sloppy with the ball for a vet PG, esp. his passing.

FireWoodson
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10/20/2015  2:42 PM
GustavBahler wrote:I do see an improvement from last season.

No, no improvement. His passing and command of the ball has only gotten sloppier.

The only improvement I see is that he, being healthy this year, is now more a part of the team. I see him talking with a lot of the younger players. I see those younger players taking it in. This is a good thing. His play may have declined, but his wisdom is still there to help out. I'm for having players like that on a team. Wish the NY Giants had someone like that.

newyorker4ever
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10/20/2015  4:47 PM
I have no problem with Calderon starting and think he does a good job of setting guys up for open shots. Gallo and Grant will also get plenty of minutes so i'm not concerned about our PG position much.
clyderules
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10/20/2015  4:52 PM
Calderon can start, serve a purpose with the triangle offense, and still sit for most of the game. To me this would preserve him and allow the team to thrive.
ChuckBuck
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10/20/2015  5:02 PM
15 to 18 minutes a game tops starting for Calderon would be ideal. Just enough for him to hit like 2 or 3 meaningless buckets, while feeding Melo in the post during the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters of games.

Any more than that, and you run the risk of getting Curried, Westbrooked, Pauled, Kyried, Walled, or Lilliard into oblivion.

Let him run his old ass 34 year old legs until they fall off by January. By then, Grant would be closing games at point anyways, and his transition to starter would be a natural progression as a rookie.

Finestrg
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10/20/2015  5:09 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:15 to 18 minutes a game tops starting for Calderon would be ideal. Just enough for him to hit like 2 or 3 meaningless buckets, while feeding Melo in the post during the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters of games.

Any more than that, and you run the risk of getting Curried, Westbrooked, Pauled, Kyried, Walled, or Lilliard into oblivion.

Let him run his old ass 34 year old legs until they fall off by January. By then, Grant would be closing games at point anyways, and his transition to starter would be a natural progression as a rookie.

Good post. I think that's a very accurate assessment of the situation.

clyderules
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10/20/2015  5:21 PM
And I think that Trice will be a factor soon. I like him!
ChuckBuck
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10/20/2015  5:24 PM
Finestrg wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:15 to 18 minutes a game tops starting for Calderon would be ideal. Just enough for him to hit like 2 or 3 meaningless buckets, while feeding Melo in the post during the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters of games.

Any more than that, and you run the risk of getting Curried, Westbrooked, Pauled, Kyried, Walled, or Lilliard into oblivion.

Let him run his old ass 34 year old legs until they fall off by January. By then, Grant would be closing games at point anyways, and his transition to starter would be a natural progression as a rookie.

Good post. I think that's a very accurate assessment of the situation.

Common sense my bro. It's a point guard driven league. If you don't have adequate play at the 1, you're doomed from the get go.

Even without mentioning the upper echelon, you still got the Tony Parker's, the Kemba Walker's, the Mike Conley's, the Jeff Teague's. If you can't come close to matching their scoring/assist output and/or can't defend the point....you're in for a long ass season.

Calderon

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