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expectations for DWill
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callmened
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10/15/2015  11:01 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/15/2015  11:04 AM
Guys am i being a hater?

most of my friends have joined the D williams hype train cuz he has looked good in preseason against 2nd stringers on washington and philadelphia. Yes i can admit he looked good and even better than i expected but i dont think we have found "the answer". folks think that he was on a bad team and bad structure and thats why he didnt excel. im like "its not like the knicks are a good team with a good structure". i think unless getting drafted at an early age, a player is what he is. therefore i think dwilliams will be a tease: fun dunking highlights sprinkled in with inconsistent shooting, bonehead turnovers, lazy defense and subpar rebounding. theres a reason only the kings then knicks wanted him after being in minnesota

what are your expectations?

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
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ChuckBuck
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10/15/2015  11:11 AM
DWill can thrive in the 2nd unit for sure. Be our "JR" to feast on opponents benches.

I think that's the role he maybe destined for in the NBA. 6th or 7th man. Either that, or he'll be out of the league soon.

holfresh
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10/15/2015  11:19 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/15/2015  11:22 AM
It's really hard to say at this point..I think you have to wait to see a rotation and how he fits in his roll...His game doesn't have structure at first glance..It's kind of like he is freelancing which has it's upside as well as it's downside...We have to see if he can execute assigned roles...It's too early for that..
Rookie
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10/15/2015  11:26 AM
2nd unit needs players who can score. D Will does that. Hard to draw conclusions after a few pre season games. He's on our team, why not just root for him and the rest of the team. They will all have good days and bad days. What we need is some consistency to be a contender. Hard to pick out just one player to hate, unless that's your homer Knick thing. For me, my homer hate thing goes to Calderon. He's washed up, done. D Will, he still has an opportunity to turn it around and he sure as hell has the skills
fishmike
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10/15/2015  11:27 AM
He can score, that has never been a problem.

Can he buy into the team concept? Can he do more than jack shots? He's a great slasher and athletic finisher and that is a great skill to have on the floor, but not if he's hurting you in other areas.

Its a good spot for this player. We are asking him to provide that what he's best at, and only asking that he does enough of the other things he's struggled with in the past to simply stay on the floor.

If he wants to stay in the league and get paid he's got a great shot here

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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10/15/2015  11:58 AM
I think the way the Knicks are looking to use him - keep him moving - will help his game a lot.

He's previously been parked in the corner a lot. I think he's one of those guys who needs to be engaged on every play, or his attention drifts.

I don't know what my expectations for him are - but I think he could be something of a Tim Thomas on the low end and an Al Harrington on the high end, production-wise.

He's more skilled than either of those two knuckleheads, but I don't know how much of a knucklehead DWill is. I suspect he's a little bit of a knucklehead, as evidenced by some of his turnovers so far.

I think you'll have to take the good with the bad with DWill. But the good will give us an explosive scorer who can light it up for 25pts easy some nights.

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GustavBahler
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10/15/2015  11:58 AM
As long as he plays D, I can handle watching Williams jacking up a shot now and then.
nixluva
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10/15/2015  12:28 PM
crzymdups wrote:I think the way the Knicks are looking to use him - keep him moving - will help his game a lot.

He's previously been parked in the corner a lot. I think he's one of those guys who needs to be engaged on every play, or his attention drifts.

I don't know what my expectations for him are - but I think he could be something of a Tim Thomas on the low end and an Al Harrington on the high end, production-wise.

He's more skilled than either of those two knuckleheads, but I don't know how much of a knucklehead DWill is. I suspect he's a little bit of a knucklehead, as evidenced by some of his turnovers so far.

I think you'll have to take the good with the bad with DWill. But the good will give us an explosive scorer who can light it up for 25pts easy some nights.


BINGO!!!

This guy has been misused most of his career. As you pointed out I've shown evidence of how the Kings had him hanging out on the perimeter and out of most plays. Dude is meant to be on the move and attacking. You can't watch him and not notice his explosive abilities. This team needs that and I think Phil was looking for an X Factor to add to the mix of otherwise pretty sedate players. DWill will more often than not pump up his teammates and the crowd with his high energy plays. He's constantly running and beating his man down the floor and those easy buckets will add up.

People need to stop looking for DWIll to be perfect. That's not what his strength is. You want him to be a wild man for the most part. Put the fear of God in the other team's bench. Most of those players won't have anything they can do to stop him. We need that off the bench and it's obvious when you watch the games so far that he's that 6th man teams are always trying to find.

His difference from JR is that he's a pretty good guy. He's not looking to cause trouble. He just wants to be wanted and he likes it here. His other teams didn't really have much use for him and it clearly impacted his confidence. Now he's SUPER confident and it's to our benefit that he feels that way.

herkyJerky
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10/15/2015  1:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/15/2015  1:12 PM
I like DWill. At this point I'm not convinced that he's 'the answer', but I do like what he's bringing to the table. I think he will serve the team's needs better in some ways than JR did. He's more willing to attack the basket (not just for oops like JR) and he has a lot more energy and is stronger. I think I've seen him take only one stupid shot so far (whereas JR would have taken 6 or 7 by now), and he likes to draw fouls. Those are big pluses in my book. My only question about DWill is: will he still be willing to attack the basket, the way he has so far, down the stretch as the season drags along? If he slows down with that attack, down the stretch, things could get dicey. But I'm not worried about that at this point. What this team has to worry about right now is starting off the season competing really hard for the first bunch of games, and try to snatch some wins along the way.
If it ain't broke, don't break it. - Charles 'The REAL Sir Charles' Oakley.
mase14
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10/15/2015  1:19 PM
His turnovers bother me and like someone holfresh said he's pretty much freelancing out there
That being said he looks good so far with Grant finding him
fishmike
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10/15/2015  1:43 PM
nixluva wrote:
This guy has been misused most of his career.

The stuff you say never fails to entertain....

Hey DWill... why have you struggled to rebound, defend and pass since you have joined the NBA?

DWill: Coach's been misusing me man.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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10/15/2015  2:09 PM
We have seen very little than works in progress for the team. Melo looks quick and shaking the rust.
From what I have read Dwil is lost trying to get the triangle down. Lots of new players and the chemistry will take time.

If you make assumptions based on what ones sees preseason and extrapolate it over 82 games its a foolish assumption.

crzymdups
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10/15/2015  2:12 PM
This is interesting from Chris Herring - DWill is notably worse from the right hand side of the court. And for the first three years of his career, he played with lefty PGs like Rubio and Isaiah Thomas who set up the action from the left side of the court - so maybe that contributed to him being on his weaker side - the right side more often?

Anyhow, I agree with Fish that DWill being misused on offense doesn't explain his bad defense, bad passing and poor rebounding. But it could be a factor that made him feel uncomfortable and out of place. Combine that with the pressure of being a no.2 overall pick and expected to put up numbers on a team he didn't like... it's possible he could have struggled for those reasons. Of course, the best guys play through it and put up numbers wherever. But DWill is maybe not a "best guy"... he may have been misused. Plenty of guys around the league take a few stops to figure it out, from Chauncey Billups to Jermaine O'Neal, etc. Not saying DWill is one of those guys, but I'm saying I'm willing to give him a chance.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/knicks-forward-derrick-williams-doesnt-have-right-of-way-1444865644

Five years into his NBA career, it remains unclear what sort of player Derrick Williams will become.

On some nights, the enigmatic 6-foot-8-inch forward, who has posted a team-high 44 points in the Knicks’ last two preseason games, flashes the kind of highflying scoring ability that made him the No. 2 overall pick in the 2011 NBA Draft. On others, he doesn’t score at all, and struggles to find his way defensively. Last season, for example, he scored 15 points or more 12 times, but scored two points or fewer 14 times.

Williams, now with his third NBA team in five seasons, spent 2014-15 in Sacramento, where he averaged a respectable 8.3 points in 19.8 minutes a game. But a look at his shot chart with the Kings highlights some serious inconsistencies. The most baffling: He was one of the NBA’s best players at finishing near the rim with his left hand, yet one of the worst at finishing near the rim from the right—despite being right-handed.

From inside of 5 feet, Williams shot a blistering 71% from the left side of the rim last season. On the right, though, he shot just over 40%, according to Stats, LLC. Of the 185 NBA guards and forwards who took at least 70 close-range shots from each side of the basket, no player had a greater disparity in accuracy from left to right than Williams.

Asked about the statistical oddity, Williams laughed, noting that he surprised himself earlier that night when he managed to sink a right-handed floater against the Washington Wizards. That’s how much more confident he is about shooting with his left hand than with his right.

He said that an injury to his right hand suffered during his sophomore season at Arizona—when he won Pac-10 Player of the Year honors—helps explain why he’s more comfortable with his off-hand. “I used my left hand a lot that year, and it’s gotten to a point where I might be better with that hand now.”

“I do pretty much everything with my left now—push the ball with that hand, finish better at the rim with that hand,” he said.

If that’s not strange enough, though, last season was the first in which Williams had a notable statistical difference in accuracy from one side of the rim to the other. So what explains the change?

One possibility: In his first three NBA seasons, spent with the Minnesota Timberwolves and Sacramento, Williams never played with a point guard who operated primarily from the right side of the floor. Before playing alongside the Kings’ Darren Collison in 2014, Williams played with point guards Isaiah Thomas, a lefty, and Ricky Rubio, who writes with his left hand, is left-eye dominant and generally prefers to start the Timberwolves’ offense from the left side of the court.

With that in mind, it’s possible that Williams struggled from the right side last season because he found Sacramento’s spacing to be relatively cramped there on the strong side of the court, as opposed to the left, where there was more space to work.

‘I do pretty much everything with my left now—push the ball with that hand, finish better at the rim with that hand.’
—Derrick Williams
Asked to explain the strange discrepancy that emerged last season, he drew a blank. Whatever the case, the Knicks have high hopes for Williams this season—the first of a two-year, $10-million contract, with a player option in year two. Williams, who has averaged 16.7 points in the team’s first three preseason games (second only to Carmelo Anthony’s 18.7), brings a level of athleticism and scoring punch off the bench that New York has lacked in recent years.

Coach Derek Fisher has suggested several times that Williams, who is 24, will benefit from having a more stable situation, with more veterans around him than he’s had with past teams. So far, Fisher has been impressed with the forward’s ability to score in bunches even without fully grasping the team’s triangle offense. (Williams himself acknowledged he only understands about 50% of it so far.)

“He’s just trusting his game and not thinking too much about what he’s doing,” said Fisher, Williams’s fifth coach in five seasons. “He was in the wrong places a lot of times, but it’s a results business, and he put the ball in the basket. He’ll figure it out in time.”

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crzymdups
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10/15/2015  2:13 PM
Nalod wrote:We have seen very little than works in progress for the team. Melo looks quick and shaking the rust.
From what I have read Dwil is lost trying to get the triangle down. Lots of new players and the chemistry will take time.

If you make assumptions based on what ones sees preseason and extrapolate it over 82 games its a foolish assumption.

I agree with this too.

It's pre-season.

Bobcats blew out the Clippers by 40 points the other night - all the regular Clippers started. It's the pre-season.

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fishmike
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10/15/2015  2:25 PM
crzymdups wrote:Anyhow, I agree with Fish that DWill being misused on offense doesn't explain his bad defense, bad passing and poor rebounding. But it could be a factor that made him feel uncomfortable and out of place. Combine that with the pressure of being a no.2 overall pick and expected to put up numbers on a team he didn't like... it's possible he could have struggled for those reasons. Of course, the best guys play through it and put up numbers wherever. But DWill is maybe not a "best guy"... he may have been misused. Plenty of guys around the league take a few stops to figure it out, from Chauncey Billups to Jermaine O'Neal, etc. Not saying DWill is one of those guys, but I'm saying I'm willing to give him a chance.
no disrespect to Nix, but he's about as objective with the Knicks as DK is with Melo. You can pretty much predict what angle he's taking before types a single word.

What many people forget is simply that these guys are human. He hasnt turned 25 yet, and hasnt been in a good situation yet. I have had good jobs and not so good jobs. I have had jobs Ive liked and jobs I hated going to. The best paying job I ever had I hated. I was making really good money and was totally miserable. If you arent happy it very difficult to excel and give a 100% effort. It may *feel* like your giving a 100% and you might be, but that 100% goes up a lot more when your in a position to suceed.

Does he have that here? On the surface it seems so, but time will tell... the rest is just fluff.

The point is can simply being in a happier place that you chose have a huge impact? It most certainly can. That being said DWill has several years of bad habits and poor play to revert to, so seeing is believing. He's got talent. Lets hope he's found his mojo and his ready to blossom here into a great player. 25 years old isnt too late for that.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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10/15/2015  2:41 PM
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Anyhow, I agree with Fish that DWill being misused on offense doesn't explain his bad defense, bad passing and poor rebounding. But it could be a factor that made him feel uncomfortable and out of place. Combine that with the pressure of being a no.2 overall pick and expected to put up numbers on a team he didn't like... it's possible he could have struggled for those reasons. Of course, the best guys play through it and put up numbers wherever. But DWill is maybe not a "best guy"... he may have been misused. Plenty of guys around the league take a few stops to figure it out, from Chauncey Billups to Jermaine O'Neal, etc. Not saying DWill is one of those guys, but I'm saying I'm willing to give him a chance.
no disrespect to Nix, but he's about as objective with the Knicks as DK is with Melo. You can pretty much predict what angle he's taking before types a single word.

What many people forget is simply that these guys are human. He hasnt turned 25 yet, and hasnt been in a good situation yet. I have had good jobs and not so good jobs. I have had jobs Ive liked and jobs I hated going to. The best paying job I ever had I hated. I was making really good money and was totally miserable. If you arent happy it very difficult to excel and give a 100% effort. It may *feel* like your giving a 100% and you might be, but that 100% goes up a lot more when your in a position to suceed.

Does he have that here? On the surface it seems so, but time will tell... the rest is just fluff.

The point is can simply being in a happier place that you chose have a huge impact? It most certainly can. That being said DWill has several years of bad habits and poor play to revert to, so seeing is believing. He's got talent. Lets hope he's found his mojo and his ready to blossom here into a great player. 25 years old isnt too late for that.

Yeah, agree. I think it might be a bad sign that he couldn't play through whatever adversity... but he might be the type of guy who needs a better spot.

Also, let's not forget he was drafted to a team that had Kevin Love and Michael Beasley (Beasley being the worst possible influence on a young player imaginable and basically plays a very similar, though far less explosive version of DWill's game) ahead of him at the forward spots. It was another example of Kahn drafting like a complete idiot. That team also had Anthony Randolph on it. It was a team of completely mismatched and overlapping parts. His development was severely set back being in Minnie if you asked me. Then traded to Sacramento behind Cousins and Rudy Gay in the lineup and played through crazy ownership struggles and three coaches last year. Coach Karl was the first time he had a good coach, but Karl is hardly the type to install a supportive environment - he was instantly at odds with Cousins and started that whole circus.

Look at his career this way - the Knicks are somehow the most stable and normal team DWill has ever played for. That won't solve all his issues - but he wanted to be here, knows the coaching staff and front office wanted him... it may help him get the right frame of mind. He's playing with professionals like Robin Lopez and Afflalo and Calderon and Melo and even Sasha Vujacic (who has been a pleasant surprise, culture-wise) and other younger guys like Kyle O'Quinn, Porzingis, Grant, Galloway who seem like good dudes aka not headcases. I think it's a good environment for him to succeed.

I don't think DWill is a headcase - I think he's a follower though. I think he's the type who needs a good culture and some leaders around him. Knicks finally seemingly have at least a good culture. Not sure where the leadership on the court will come from, but I think they have the types of guys who create a good culture.

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Rookie
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10/15/2015  2:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/15/2015  2:45 PM
I think what concerns me the most is this years players saying that they are lost in the triangle. Very reminiscent of last year. Is it the system or is it that our coach really isn't a good teacher...a little of both.

The in game clips of Fish coaching players are pretty scary. "so you go here, then unh, then he goes bap and then you get pow"

I can't understand a word he is saying, but I just figured maybe pro players know what he means.

BRIGGS
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10/15/2015  2:45 PM
Listen--I think having D Will will be a god send compared to what w e had last year as a back up. I can also see D will start at 3 if we keep having big man injuries with Melo the 4. Whatever it is D will is a whole lot better than what we had for a fairly good $ price.
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crzymdups
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10/15/2015  2:53 PM
Rookie wrote:I think what concerns me the most is this years players saying that they are lost in the triangle. Very reminiscent of last year. Is it the system or is it that our coach really isn't a good teacher...a little of both.

The in game clips of Fish coaching players are pretty scary. "so you go here, then unh, then he goes bap and then you get pow"

I can't understand a word he is saying, but I just figured maybe pro players know what he means.

I think the system is sort of outmoded (de-emphasizing the three) and complicated and Fish may not be the guy to teach it. I think maybe only Phil can teach it.

One positive sign is that he's letting guys go away from it more, Fish telling guys to push the ball in transition. But yeah, it's something to watch.

Conversely, if guys like Porzingis and DWill GET the Triangle - it's sort of an ideal system for their talents.

Another guy I thought of who took a long time to figure out is Lamar Odom. Really not til he got to the Lakers at age 25 or so did he figure it out. He had one great season before he joined the Lakers with Wade in Miami before being included in the Shaq trade, I guess.

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crzymdups
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10/15/2015  2:54 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Listen--I think having D Will will be a god send compared to what w e had last year as a back up. I can also see D will start at 3 if we keep having big man injuries with Melo the 4. Whatever it is D will is a whole lot better than what we had for a fairly good $ price.

Have we seen DWill and Melo on the floor together in pre-season yet? That'd be interesting. Defense could be very very rough, but it'd be a tough team to cover on offense with those two.

I'm hoping Porzingis can stay healthy enough to start alongside Melo because I think DWill is best off the bench with this team.

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expectations for DWill

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