[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

What are your observations on what needs to improve with the team?
Author Thread
TheGame
Posts: 26638
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/15/2006
Member: #1154
USA
10/11/2015  12:29 PM
I think we are all happy with the direction of the team. However, from the last two games, I think the one area that this team still needs to improve on in a big way is that guys still don't know how to run the offense. Far too often guys are just standing around on the perimeter. There is not a lot of movement, and often the triangle the players form is poorly spaced. Fisher needs to continue to pound the offense and good spacing into these guys. The players need to fully accept that the offense creates the scoring, not individual players creating their own offense. It looks better than it did last year because we have better individual players, but the team is still a long way away from really being fluid in the offense. Once the spacing and movement improves, I think we have the players to make this offense work.
Trust the Process
AUTOADVERT
tj23
Posts: 21851
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/20/2010
Member: #3119

10/11/2015  3:45 PM
Their offense was incredibly sloppy and most of the time really bad streetball in the first game but against Washinton they ran some good actions out of the triangle. They were a tad slow to form the triangle and a bit confused what to run at times but the shot selection was good overall and they really moved the ball. I really want them to focus on pinch post because that's where Melo can play a great 2 man game and they can get easy buckets. I'm curious how good Aaron will look because I'd like to see less Sasha, Lance, and Early and more Lou. I liked what I saw from basically everybody so I just want them to keep playing like that.

There was a good mix of PNR actions, DHO's, Double down screens, less post ups. Melo could've played within the offense a little more but i can't complain. Jerian tried to get his shot going a bit too much and Kris struggled inside. Early had a bad jab step pull up at the elbow but I mean the positives from the game far outweighed the negatives. They just have to keep learning and improving.

I do worry about playing big how it might affect our rotation/close out ability but we were icing WAS PNR pretty well and had decent weakside help. Galloway is really getting over screens and hounding opposing guards. I loved what I saw from that game.

nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/11/2015  9:24 PM
Fish has tweaked the offense in that he isn't asking them to get right into the Triangle early in the possession. This is to give the D some different looks and the team can be more aggressive early on. I'm not worried about it looking sloppy early on as long as they still play basketball which they didn't do at the start of last season. Even if you are lost out there you have to play and make smart basketball plays. Eventually they'll get better.
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
10/11/2015  9:39 PM
nixluva wrote:Fish has tweaked the offense in that he isn't asking them to get right into the Triangle early in the possession. This is to give the D some different looks and the team can be more aggressive early on. I'm not worried about it looking sloppy early on as long as they still play basketball which they didn't do at the start of last season. Even if you are lost out there you have to play and make smart basketball plays. Eventually they'll get better.

now you're just flinging shyt up there to see if it get's to be called art.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Cartman718
Posts: 29069
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/12/2007
Member: #1694

10/11/2015  9:47 PM
turovers have to go down. i expect that they will as the season goes along.
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
martin
Posts: 76527
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
10/11/2015  10:05 PM
dk7th wrote:
nixluva wrote:Fish has tweaked the offense in that he isn't asking them to get right into the Triangle early in the possession. This is to give the D some different looks and the team can be more aggressive early on. I'm not worried about it looking sloppy early on as long as they still play basketball which they didn't do at the start of last season. Even if you are lost out there you have to play and make smart basketball plays. Eventually they'll get better.


now you're just flinging shyt up there to see if it get's to be called art.

I feel like this is something you are very familiar with

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
10/11/2015  10:53 PM
martin wrote:
dk7th wrote:
nixluva wrote:Fish has tweaked the offense in that he isn't asking them to get right into the Triangle early in the possession. This is to give the D some different looks and the team can be more aggressive early on. I'm not worried about it looking sloppy early on as long as they still play basketball which they didn't do at the start of last season. Even if you are lost out there you have to play and make smart basketball plays. Eventually they'll get better.


now you're just flinging shyt up there to see if it get's to be called art.

I feel like this is something you are very familiar with

my shyt not only smells like roses it bears fruit. thank goodness you pay me so well.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
10/11/2015  11:56 PM
how much can you take away from 2 preseason game, especially when one opponent took 48 3pointers
ES
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
10/12/2015  12:29 AM
knicks1248 wrote:how much can you take away from 2 preseason game, especially when one opponent took 48 3pointers
Not much. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the guys that are supposed to be competing for the last roster spot playing. Saunders hasn't gotten off the bench. Atkins, Summers, and Thanasis have gotten only a couple of minutes.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

10/12/2015  7:35 AM
You guys are incredibly hard in this team. I think all things considered (2 games info preseason) they have looked great!

Everything isn't clean every time, but you can see everyone is playing well and ate in great shape. You can see whatever mistakes they make can easily be cleaned up. When it does the Knicks are going to have themselves a wonderful basketball team.

The biggest problem is how fisher coaches. He's going to have to go 10 deepin his rotation. He's got to play everyone. Our strength is in our depth. We can't have guys averaging 30+ mins. Who is he going to bench? It's not as obvious as some of you make it out to be.

Anyway I love our entire team right now. I haven't said that in 15 years.

Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/28/2012
Member: #4451

10/12/2015  8:29 AM
EnySpree wrote:You guys are incredibly hard in this team. I think all things considered (2 games info preseason) they have looked great!

Everything isn't clean every time, but you can see everyone is playing well and ate in great shape. You can see whatever mistakes they make can easily be cleaned up. When it does the Knicks are going to have themselves a wonderful basketball team.

The biggest problem is how fisher coaches. He's going to have to go 10 deepin his rotation. He's got to play everyone. Our strength is in our depth. We can't have guys averaging 30+ mins. Who is he going to bench? It's not as obvious as some of you make it out to be.

Anyway I love our entire team right now. I haven't said that in 15 years.

Not being hard at all. Just being truthful. See the problem is some people feel any sort of criticism about this team is negativity which is nonsense. Personally i like the direction the team is going and i think we have some good pieces BUT there is a long way to go before i feel everything is TERRIFIC. Defense is still a concern although i do think we have more defenders than we had in the past. I really like the rookies especially grant. I like the frontcourt depth too. Obviously we are thin at guard especially with the afflalo injury and the fact that i dont expect much of calderon. So far Melo looks real sharp coming off the injury so thats a good sign obviously. So i dont think anybody is being hard on this team at all
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

10/12/2015  8:48 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:You guys are incredibly hard in this team. I think all things considered (2 games info preseason) they have looked great!

Everything isn't clean every time, but you can see everyone is playing well and ate in great shape. You can see whatever mistakes they make can easily be cleaned up. When it does the Knicks are going to have themselves a wonderful basketball team.

The biggest problem is how fisher coaches. He's going to have to go 10 deepin his rotation. He's got to play everyone. Our strength is in our depth. We can't have guys averaging 30+ mins. Who is he going to bench? It's not as obvious as some of you make it out to be.

Anyway I love our entire team right now. I haven't said that in 15 years.

Not being hard at all. Just being truthful. See the problem is some people feel any sort of criticism about this team is negativity which is nonsense. Personally i like the direction the team is going and i think we have some good pieces BUT there is a long way to go before i feel everything is TERRIFIC. Defense is still a concern although i do think we have more defenders than we had in the past. I really like the rookies especially grant. I like the frontcourt depth too. Obviously we are thin at guard especially with the afflalo injury and the fact that i dont expect much of calderon. So far Melo looks real sharp coming off the injury so thats a good sign obviously. So i dont think anybody is being hard on this team at all

I can be critical but I'm not going to comment on anything other than what is happening now. As a unit, everything looks great. I don't notice a lapse in guard play without Afflalo. Sasha, Gallo, Grant have been holding it down.

It's too early to be critical. If this were mid season it would be an entirely different story. After game 2 in pre season, we look really good. I Expect The team to tighten up during pre season. By opening day we could be on to something. Anything less and you will see me going ape **** in here. It's not that time yet.

Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
KingQuis
Posts: 20029
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/18/2008
Member: #2379
USA
10/12/2015  9:01 AM
Honestly guys... it's just to soon to confirm "what needs to improve with the team" At best we need a bigger sample size and good health (Afflalo's return) to see whats really lacking.
The Legacy is on my back!
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
10/12/2015  10:46 AM
It is already clear that the main areas for improvement are team defense and offensive execution.
For now as expected in preseason players are concerned in showcasing their personal skills to crack the rotation.
The defense while being OK individually for the players who are expected to be a good defenders is a mess collectively.
This is also expected as team just get together.
Same true about offensive system. For now it more of freelancing to see what we get with this group.
I expect some more organized bbal somewhere mid-season.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
blkexec
Posts: 28347
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/3/2004
Member: #748
10/12/2015  11:31 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:You guys are incredibly hard in this team. I think all things considered (2 games info preseason) they have looked great!

Everything isn't clean every time, but you can see everyone is playing well and ate in great shape. You can see whatever mistakes they make can easily be cleaned up. When it does the Knicks are going to have themselves a wonderful basketball team.

The biggest problem is how fisher coaches. He's going to have to go 10 deepin his rotation. He's got to play everyone. Our strength is in our depth. We can't have guys averaging 30+ mins. Who is he going to bench? It's not as obvious as some of you make it out to be.

Anyway I love our entire team right now. I haven't said that in 15 years.

Not being hard at all. Just being truthful. See the problem is some people feel any sort of criticism about this team is negativity which is nonsense. Personally i like the direction the team is going and i think we have some good pieces BUT there is a long way to go before i feel everything is TERRIFIC. Defense is still a concern although i do think we have more defenders than we had in the past. I really like the rookies especially grant. I like the frontcourt depth too. Obviously we are thin at guard especially with the afflalo injury and the fact that i dont expect much of calderon. So far Melo looks real sharp coming off the injury so thats a good sign obviously. So i dont think anybody is being hard on this team at all

I agree with Spree......It's not any criticism, it's the negative criticism after 1.5 preseason games, after Phil did a major rehaul. On top of that, Knick fans have a history of being hard on their own players, team and management. I've said this for years, and maybe I see it more because I've lived in so many different cities and states. Knick players can't blink wrong with out fans and the media blowing it up. I'm just as guilty, but I have finally seen the light. Expectations for this team and players have been extremely high, and it needs to come down.

Just because we have an owner that wants to over pay players, coaches and GM's, doesn't mean expectations should match. The fact is Fisher and Phil are rookies. KP and Grant are rookies. The rest of players that other teams didn't want. Melo is the only superstar. There is no way any negative crticism can be taken seriously right now, when you have an 82 game season ahead of you and haven't played 1 regular season game. Yes, it's fun to play GM or coach.....But some fans were negative during the off season and carry that over to preseason. It's time that we become optimistic for once. Give these guys time to grow into themselves and into the system. In the past, we would've lost both games, and probably got blown out. The fact that we actually won and competed is a great improvement. It's all about baby steps at this point. Most of the issues I'm hearing will be corrected over time.

As far as sloppy offense, I think Fisher realizes (just like during summer league play) he has a future pg in Grant that specializes in pick and rolls. KP and Melo are the best pick and pop bigs in the game. So trying to integrate pick and roll with Phills triangle offense, its like mixing peanut butter and jelly together, before making a sandwich. It's going to look messy, but it will still taste good!

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/12/2015  12:03 PM
blkexec wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:You guys are incredibly hard in this team. I think all things considered (2 games info preseason) they have looked great!

Everything isn't clean every time, but you can see everyone is playing well and ate in great shape. You can see whatever mistakes they make can easily be cleaned up. When it does the Knicks are going to have themselves a wonderful basketball team.

The biggest problem is how fisher coaches. He's going to have to go 10 deepin his rotation. He's got to play everyone. Our strength is in our depth. We can't have guys averaging 30+ mins. Who is he going to bench? It's not as obvious as some of you make it out to be.

Anyway I love our entire team right now. I haven't said that in 15 years.

Not being hard at all. Just being truthful. See the problem is some people feel any sort of criticism about this team is negativity which is nonsense. Personally i like the direction the team is going and i think we have some good pieces BUT there is a long way to go before i feel everything is TERRIFIC. Defense is still a concern although i do think we have more defenders than we had in the past. I really like the rookies especially grant. I like the frontcourt depth too. Obviously we are thin at guard especially with the afflalo injury and the fact that i dont expect much of calderon. So far Melo looks real sharp coming off the injury so thats a good sign obviously. So i dont think anybody is being hard on this team at all

I agree with Spree......It's not any criticism, it's the negative criticism after 1.5 preseason games, after Phil did a major rehaul. On top of that, Knick fans have a history of being hard on their own players, team and management. I've said this for years, and maybe I see it more because I've lived in so many different cities and states. Knick players can't blink wrong with out fans and the media blowing it up. I'm just as guilty, but I have finally seen the light. Expectations for this team and players have been extremely high, and it needs to come down.

Just because we have an owner that wants to over pay players, coaches and GM's, doesn't mean expectations should match. The fact is Fisher and Phil are rookies. KP and Grant are rookies. The rest of players that other teams didn't want. Melo is the only superstar. There is no way any negative crticism can be taken seriously right now, when you have an 82 game season ahead of you and haven't played 1 regular season game. Yes, it's fun to play GM or coach.....But some fans were negative during the off season and carry that over to preseason. It's time that we become optimistic for once. Give these guys time to grow into themselves and into the system. In the past, we would've lost both games, and probably got blown out. The fact that we actually won and competed is a great improvement. It's all about baby steps at this point. Most of the issues I'm hearing will be corrected over time.

As far as sloppy offense, I think Fisher realizes (just like during summer league play) he has a future pg in Grant that specializes in pick and rolls. KP and Melo are the best pick and pop bigs in the game. So trying to integrate pick and roll with Phills triangle offense, its like mixing peanut butter and jelly together, before making a sandwich. It's going to look messy, but it will still taste good!


This is expressed even better than what I was trying to say. There are some good signs already beginning to show with this team and they will hopefully get even better with time and practice. They aren't always sloppy and out of sync. There have been good stretches where you see the team exciting properly and that has helped them to win. It's not like the Wiz weren't trying to win the game. The Knicks did some things right in order to win. Still it's just preseason.

Fish gets bashed but he actually started trying to blend different concepts into the Triangle last year. There's ALWAYS been an evolution of the Triangle over the years. Phil himself had tweaked the offense several times with different rosters.

Fish had emphasized the use of Drag Screens last year as a way to keep defenses honest in trying to stop the predictable aspects of the Triangle. It is something the PG can call for at anytime to create some good looks. It doesn't stop them from running the Triangle at all. It's just being blended into the offense as another action.

PnR isn't really hard to add in since it's just a 2 man action. The Triangle 2 man is the Pinch Post so it's not hard to run a PnR out of that. Pushing the pace was always part of the offense but not with better players they should be able to push the pace more and be more successful at it.

We have more passers now and that should lead to a smoother and more potent offense. You can see it already that this team is better at moving the ball.

EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

10/12/2015  2:36 PM
Basically from where we were to where we are? We have reason to sit back and enjoy. I can't be critical just yet. We had a rough 2 years. I see too much good to worry too much about what's going wrong.

If anything I think the Wizards are in trouble. They were playing to win. They gave the Knicks their best shot at one point and the Knicks as a whole held their own. That's something to enjoy.

Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/12/2015  3:04 PM
EnySpree wrote:Basically from where we were to where we are? We have reason to sit back and enjoy. I can't be critical just yet. We had a rough 2 years. I see too much good to worry too much about what's going wrong.

If anything I think the Wizards are in trouble. They were playing to win. They gave the Knicks their best shot at one point and the Knicks as a whole held their own. That's something to enjoy.

It was very enjoyable, since there was some negativity about the Knicks not being able to compete with the better teams in the East. Back before any of the preseason games I had started a thread where I compared the Knicks with the other teams in the East and I didn't see a lot of separation IMO. I think now it's even more clear that this team has a chance to do well this season if they continue to put in the work to come together as a team. I think the mix of vets and youth is working out well so far. This reminds me of the 54 win team in that the Vets are helping the younger guys and the younger guys are playing confident and giving an energy boost to the older guys. Only there are a lot more young vets rather than old ready to retire vets.

Having a higher ratio of team players is helping a lot. The ball seems to be moving well and they still haven't reached mid season form. I can imagine them getting much better individually and as a group. It's much more enjoyable to watch these guys give a better effort than we've been subjected to the last 2 years. It's completely different vibe to this roster. Much more of a Phil type team IMO. They're big and more rugged inside. This was something Phil really wanted to do and so far it looks like he was relatively successful in making the team much bigger and tougher.

What are your observations on what needs to improve with the team?

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy