BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:I've been reading all the analysts and some fans talk about this current Knicks roster and how it's only likely to win 25 games and can't compete for a playoff spot in the East because the teams are so tough now and the Knicks don't have enough talent. Sure the Knicks can't be expected to be in the top 4 spots in the East but I think many are overstating the strength of the rest of the East relative to the current Knicks roster. I actually don't think the Knicks are devoid of talent like last year but rather have a fairly competitive talent level now.

I decided to kind of do a rough listing of the rosters of many of the teams in the East just to have an at a glance look at the talent on these teams compared to the Knicks roster. There may be errors as I was doing this with tired eyes but I think for the most part it should still be informative even if there's a mistake here or there. This isn't any kind of official list or perfect representation of each rosters SL. It's not really important what the actual PPG stats say, because some of those stats and MPG stats will change with some of these players joining new teams. Just look at the relative talent compared to some of the other teams in the East.

IMO I don't see so much separation when it comes to talent. These teams all look fairly close in terms of talent and the difference between wins and losses will likely be very small IMO. Cleveland, Atlanta, Miami and Chicago are likely to be the top 4 IMO. I do think the Knicks can be competitive with the rest of the East. It will come down to developing chemistry and how well the team executes on both ends. IMO that starts with this Knicks team having NBA level players with experience and a selfless attitude. Those players will help to make this team competitive even while they look to gel as a group.

This roster has more effort players than last year and that can help to make up for some of the early adjustment issues they may face. Defending and hitting the boards should help to keep them in games even if there are some hiccups with the offense early on. IMO this Knicks roster will be able to compete for a playoff spot this season.

Im on the other side of the fence.
I look at it this way
We have a so called elite player--how many are in the NBA--8-10?
We have 4 7 footers 3 veterans 1 who played in the playoffs the last few years
We now have a secondary scorer
We have bench depth
So those calling for 25 wins are nuts--if we cant win atleast 41 games something is God awful wrong.

Our negatives are--we just dont have end to end speed from enough players. At at the defense that lack of speed makes it hard to defend teams that spread and use a faster pace
Our starting PG might be the worst defensive player in the NBA
We lack players who can penetrate. I think a BIG mistake was not taking Norman Powell 35. I think he couldve been a difference maker off the bench

So we have to say --listen we have Carmelo and we just spent 100mm$ on vets and had two very high picks. We got rid of the so called problems. We DO NOT have the ability to change that much from where we are right now--well have cap space but so will 29 other teams next year. So if this is not 41+ or at WORST 38 than we have to rectify some things. IF we get off to a bad start and melo is avg 25 a night--were playing bad D etc... then a coaching change first then possibly a Melo trade second. So to get better we need accountability and set expectations higher

I disagree about being concerned over a lack of team speed. RoLo, Jerian, Gallo, KP, DWill, Afflalo and Early are not slow players for their positions. Surely this is not a team built to run but they are built to defend and rebound at a higher level than before and they can slow other teams down with half court execution and hitting the boards. It doesn't matter how fast the other team is if you can pound them inside, get offensive boards and get to the FT line.

We have players who will get penetration and get to the basket. This team will be a force in the paint off Post ups, Cuts, PnR and Give n Go which are staples of this offense. We have the players to be effective in those areas. Dribble penetration isn't really the only way for our players to get to the hoop. Bigs that can get low position and hold it and guards and wings that can move with or without the ball going to the basket. It all equals penetration.

I will say that Fish and the coaching staff will have a very sound plan going into this season. I think they did learn some things from last season and you saw some of the best of that in the Summer League. This team will play at a faster pace tho that doesn't mean they'll turn into SSOL or Nellie ball or even the Warriors of last year. It just means that they should play at a pace that is closer to the league average. They don't have to be the fastest to be successful. They just can't be the slowest and they won't. Pace isn't so much running at break neck speed all game as it is being able to get more early offense rather than using all of the shot clock on every possession. Being able to draw fouls and attack the basket.

Jerian will have the same looks that Shved got and he should be nearly as effective in that kind of role. Jerian is a very aggressive big guard just like Shved, but with a tougher body.

I know that some are really down on DWill, but I can see how he could really be effective in this style of offense that features MULTIPLE cuts to the basket per possession. He was mainly ignored in Sacramento but in this system he'll be put in prime positions to attack the basket in the flow of the offense. It's actually not just an accident where the defense leaves him open by mistake. Cuts to the basket are a feature of this offense.

WaltLongmire wrote:Always comes down to how guys play as a team...not sure there is any analytical rocket-science involved here. Sometimes looking at the individual talent on a team is meaningless- especially if they have never played together.

Some guys will emerge...and some will "submerge," during the year. Also have to factor in injuries.

I just want the Knicks to be on the upswing at the end of the year. If things come together late, and we beat good teams in games where they need to win, I'll be happy an expect to build on this the next season.

I want to see KP, Grant, and O'Quinn become starter quality players, and Gallo emerge as a 25MPG rotation combo guard. The Frenchman is a wildcard for this season. We also either Early or Thanasis to emerge as a rotation quality player.

I'm not a fan of Williams, despite the love some see to have for the guy, but he is another wildcard.

Just want the guys who have started before to buy into the system and play to win.

Hopefully Calderon and Grant both play well, and we are able to trade Jose for a pick next year.

This team has some individual talent, but I would hope that by now folks know you need more than that to field a successful team.

We could have the lowest individual talent and still make noise as a team. This is Phils philosophy. 5 players are better than 1. He's trying to build a team around Melo.....which is different from our past GMs, who only focused on adding talent. Basically this team has chemistry on paper. They are likable players that get along with each other. They enjoy playing and hanging out in the off season. Chemistry is a huge factor, thats usually over looked. If a team has good chemistry, then you only need 2 real stars, surrounded by role players. Even with Bosh, Lebron and Wade.....one of them had to be a role player. So this year is about building chemistry and showing Durrant and others how we are only 1 star player away from competing.

StarksEwing1 wrote:I like the moves that were made but its gonna take some time to gel and for the young kids like grant and KP to develop. I still predict 35-37 wins which is a good first step and a hell of a lot better than 17 wins. I still feel we need one more big player to get us over to that next level and hopefully we get that next offseason

Wow one man away? Well that would mean we will win 45+ right? To go from 45 wins to 57 and a chance to compete is a problem many GOOD NBA PLAYOFF teams have. My "guess" is that we find instability in the guard positions on both ends and it could really affect the whole team. Now we should be better--we should win 41 games right?

Thanks for stacking up all those team rosters next to each other side by side for comparison. I agree--I don't see the big disparity in talent between us and a lot of these other clubs. We should definitely be able to compete with any of these teams and come away with our fair share of Ws.

Have a funny feeling the starting unit will be:

5 - Lopez
4 - O'Quinn
3 - Melo
2 - Afflalo
1 - Calderon

That's a decent starting 5 that should hold it's own with anyone to start the game. Agree that some of those players aren't the quickest though and that's a little cause for concern, esp. when we go up against some of the quicker teams in the league like a Golden State, etc.. What I like though is that we can almost immediately level the playing field with our bench in terms of matching up athletically with anyone -- with guys like Jerian Grant (PG), TA (SG/SF -- I'm high on this dude--I think he could be a better version of Gerald Wilkins eventually), KP (PF/C), D-Will (SF/PF), Seraphin (PF/C), Galloway's quick enough and can offer some decent defense at both guard spots, Early (SF), etc., I think we can succeed in matching other teams' quickness and athleticism, maybe even take the initiative and up the tempo ourselves on occasion.

My chief concerns with this off-season:

• Was Porzingis the right pick at 4? I feel pretty good about him, like that he put on 10 lbs. already, but you can't help but wonder about him and have questions.
• Are we going to regret giving Lopez that much money?
• Will we regret letting Shved go and then not adding another proven, semi-proven or even unproven skilled/versatile guard in his place?
• Were Amundson and L. Thomas really worth it to bring back--were these two signings really good utilization of 2 roster spots & the cap space?
• Will we regret not matching Cuban's offer to keep Mo N'Dour?

Hopefully, these turn out to be minimal concerns, even non-issues. On the flip side, there were quite a few good moves, pleasant surprises and things to be excited about/thankful for. blkexec brings up a lot of good points -- building chemistry will be paramount in order to get the most outta this team. Hopefully we'll have that. On paper anyway, we should have it. Doesn't look to be one bad egg in the bunch. You can make the argument that Melo is the only questionable personality on the team now. Very important that he buys in, sets an example, sacrifices some and finally steps the F up and provides some kind of leadership. I question if he's up for all of that--hopefully he is because it can only lead to the betterment of the team and toward maximizing this team's potential. If he reverts to pouting, sulking, shrugging his shoulders, not being focused in the huddles & starts up with his 'just gimmie the damn ball' crap, it could be toxic...This training camp when Fisher has them all line up on the sideline and prepare to take a step forward in the name of unity, we need Melo to step forward before Fish even finishes his sentence, not look around laughing and joking...And then yeah--hopefully we can show a guy like Durant or some of the other high profile players that will be available that we're ready to compete for something meaningful and that this is a team/organization worth joining. In the meantime--there were some things I would've liked to have seen done a little differently, but all in all this off-season was positive and a pretty good 'phase 1' in the process toward turning this thing around. Really looking forward to getting started.

Shane Started 12 of the 1st 13 games and 22 overall. That won't be the case this year. I think Jose, Afflalo, Jerian and Gallo will provide quality Guard play for this team. The bigs will do what they've always done in terms of setting screens, Rolling, posting, defending and rebounding. The big change will probably be more passing than they may have done in the past. The Triangle will give our bigs more passing opportunities. O'Quinn and KP seem to me to be guys who could shine passing the ball. It's hard to know how RoLo will do since they didn't really give him many opportunities in Portland.

I also think this roster has a chance to be stronger protecting the paint, on the boards and in the post. This team isn't as soft in the middle as it was. It's a more MANLY roster so to speak. We've got good screen setters and guys that can roll strong to the basket as well as hold position inside. We shouldn't get pushed around inside.

We have the Prozingod who 12 months ago we never even heard of this kid. With Grant, we have two players who could be part of the new foundation.

nixluva wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Nalod wrote:RoPez is solid at a decent price and should be tradable.
We need to think its possible to actually trade guys because we have one in the wings to move up and we get a good return on the asset.

Willy HernandanzefrancisacgarcialopezGomez and Prozingod could make Ropez expendable to a team that is contending and could yield a nice pick or yoot. We usually think in terms of trading and getting less in return.
Why? Cuz that's been the knick way.
Jose might play really well but same thing, a team contending might see him as the back up they need due to injury. Bottom line is getting players to perform up to contracts and stay healthy.

Yup...

Four years...no player option...and he is still young.

Lopez's contract will be very trade friendly following next year's cap adjustment.

His future will undoubtedly depend on how KP and Hernangomez develop, but having Lopez gives them that time to develop the right way.

Don't know that Seraphin will end up doing, but a big man rotation of KP, Lopez, O'Quinn, and Hernangomez should do well, IMO.

Phil simply LOVES having reliable bigs. Last year probably killed him in that regard. The bigs we have now and possibly for the future are young enough and strong enough to provide a base of strong play for years to come. It's one of the more overlooked aspects of what Phil has done. There's a TON of upside with KP, RoLo, O'Quinn and Willy.

Phil builds his team from the center postion out.....Starting with the position he knows best. The good thing about that is we haven't built a team with that strategy since we drafted Ewing. And we all know how that turned out.

Bigs are valuable and reliable....Old school bigs are more consistent because they block shots, rebound, and efficient scorers.