holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Still having problem assigning ownership...Dolan did this Dolan did that..Dolan told Phil to resign Melo..Dolan is the bad bank..Your fav GM and coach are to good bank...

the fish rots from the head down. this is an inescapable fact. the day that dolan admitted he did not know what he was doing was the dawn of hope. but please do continue to crap on jackson and fisher and lopez and o'quinn and porzingis and grant.

i am looking forward to this season.

Calderon stinks..U can add him to your list...

okay. i'll add calderon. now explain to me why jackson felt compelled to trade chandler and felton for calderon. i'm all ears on this one.

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:We need to appreciate what we have in Melo not trash him for what he can't do. We need what he can do to succeed right now. If they can get the team around him to function we should do that.

the more he cannot do the less he should be paid and the fewer players should have been traded for him. we did both but yeah lets "appreciate" what we have.

what have we had, again? the last 4 years have been...?

apparently your in the minority,

what the heck has any player every done for the knicks in the past 40+ years, take, take, take.

the problem has never been the individual player, it's the roster that they put around their high price players all the way back to King..Ewing may have kept us a playoff contender, but it was more heart broken then, the finger roles, the injuries, the fights, the lame ass pg's, the 2 for 18 starks, the hobbled allan houston, the camby sisters hostage situation.

The franchise hasn't gotten right, and has been hit with more bad luck, then black cats, broken mirrors, and splitting poles..smh

my issue with melo and ewing, regardless of the front office, is that both overrated themselves, asked for too much for their services, and never worked on expanding their games sufficiently. these three things are deeply intertwined but the root problem of the three remains a stubborn egocentricity.

some will say ewing was proud, a proud warrior, etc. and that's fine if you want to make him some sort of heroic person. i don't see it that way. but this ego clouded his judgement and made him less pragmatic than he could have been.

melo is just a lesser version.

Have you ever thought it's what has made them who they are..It's that stubbornness that drives their careers...They aren't the greatest athletes, they weren't chiseled from Mount Olympus.. I think it's great...I never wanted MJ and I don't want LeBron on my team...I wish we had more guys like Ewing on our team, we would have won...Guys like Ewing and Melo thinks they can beat MJ and LeBrons of the world...I want these guys on my team..They are the underdog and they come to fight..Melo has gotten better over the years...He is stubborn and wants to win...I can't ask for more...

I would never put Anthony and Ewing in the same category. Always felt that Ewing fell in love with the jumper a bit too much, neglected to refine his game in the post, and he was never a good passer, but he had a significant impact on both sides of the court, and played with intensity.

As for Jordan, the guy was one of the great competitors of all time-in any sport, and was able to have an impact in every aspect of the game. Not many prolific scorers have been as intense on the defensive end like he was. There was nobody more stubborn than this guy- he took it personally if you scored on him. Hated the guy, but respected him on the court. Had an ego, but it fueled his competitiveness.

Kobe is more like Jordan than James, IMO, but James has some of the same competitiveness in him.

For one reason or another, Anthony is not in the conversation with Jordan, Ewing, or Lebron as a player.

He has his moments...usually as a scorer- but his limitations as a player are significant, and his defensive deficiencies are telling.

You guys have to stop the BS about Melo's defense..You lose me bcause I think u don't know what you are talking about..He isn't the greatest defender but he plays defense..People who don't watch him play every night will say that because they read it and it's easy to get people to agree with them..But you who claim to watch the Knicks and say Melo don't play defense it's either you don't watch the games or you are just lying...Dirk and Nash are two of the consistently worst defenders every to play the game, yet they don't have that label..Melo is a much better defender than both yet he has the label...You think it's a little press running with it??...

and you were the one who somehow managed to put Anthony into a sentence with Ewing, as if there is any comparison but the uniform.

Nash was/is a poor defender- stunning how few steals he averaged, and Dirk with his plodding feet is a limited defender, however...

...I'm not good with these advanced stats, but when comparing the ORtg/DRtg of Nash, Anthony, and Dirk, I was surprised to find that Anthony's ratio was the worst one of the 3, by far. His Denver numbers averaged out at 107/107.

In fact the year the Nuggets reached the conference finals, he was a -2 for the year, while Billups was +11, Hilario, +15, and Chris Anderson, +19

Perhaps somebody can tell me if there is any significance to these numbers?

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Still having problem assigning ownership...Dolan did this Dolan did that..Dolan told Phil to resign Melo..Dolan is the bad bank..Your fav GM and coach are to good bank...

the fish rots from the head down. this is an inescapable fact. the day that dolan admitted he did not know what he was doing was the dawn of hope. but please do continue to crap on jackson and fisher and lopez and o'quinn and porzingis and grant.

i am looking forward to this season.

Calderon stinks..U can add him to your list...

okay. i'll add calderon. now explain to me why jackson felt compelled to trade chandler and felton for calderon. i'm all ears on this one.

incompetence?

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:Question for some of the more experienced Knicks fans: was Bernard King subjected to the same type of criticism as Melo back in his Knicks playing days?

As for Melo accepting a lesser role on the offense, who is it that the Knicks have on their roster now that is bursting with offensive prowess that Melo is holding back?

It's wasn't the same..It was a different era..The big money Melo makes is an issue...24/7 news cycle..The internet..Anyone is writing a column these days...And I mean the dude down the block or in a dorm room or his mother's basement...The hip hop era...Allen Iverson..Corn rolls and tattoos...There hate is real out there but there are some that has legit basketball questions..Just that today they mask their issues and says it's about basketball and the game...It's deeper...Guys like Melo don't carry themselves in a manner that apologies for their wealth or status..It rubs some the wrong way...

you started off with two truths and then went into justifying melo's behavior. the dude has been an in love with himself greedy infantile douche.

You are justifying my point by mentioning "Melo's behavior"...

okay.. so u characterize his behavior a certain way and say it is perfectly good and acceptable behavior. meanwhile i characterize his behavior a certain way, differently from u, and say it is not perfectly good and acceptable.

u seem to be headed down a particular primrose path with your post..

No what I'm saying is that I don't care about Melo's behavior..I could care less what he is doing off the court...Seem like his cash moves bother you, what happens in TMZ and social media..I care when the refs toss up the basketball to when they blow the final whistle...

and when his behavior and business decisions affect the quality of his teams/teammates and the morale of the teams/teammates, what then?

By business decisions, you mean the instances you feel he should act against his own self interest?

you're way too black and white as usual. there's a reason why contracts are negotiated. if you end up with a boatload of cash but a paucity of talent then that's going to be a problem. or, if you are afraid if missing that boat on a big payday and force a trade that pays you well but costs the team you are going to a bunch of human assets in exchange for your services then that too is going to be a problem.

that's why being a savvy negotiator who is finding a balance between money and work atmosphere is so important. melo lacks the savvy because he only sees dollar signs. so he is actually working against his own self interests as an nba player. the money he makes comes ata significant price-- can you understand that statement?

what i have resented about the knicks is that there was an opportunity to build something in 2010. we had ALL the leverage to keep a patient rebuild going, and then completely sabotaged that process. hre we are 4-5 years later and essentially nothing has changed... although i believe we will see signs of that progress that we could have witnessed in 2011-2012 had the melo deal not occurred as it did.

melo as a free agent in 2011-2012 would have been a much better scenario. but yeah he acted in his own perceived self-interest even though it was self-destructive.

You fail to illustrate the bad management we had in the process..U fail to see the bad management in place right now..Donnie and MDA signed Amare..The team was doomed from that single act..Melo or no Melo...Amnestying Billups was a disaster after picking up his option a few months earlier..Bringing in Chandler, another disaster..MDA was a disaster...But you continue to moan about Melo's contract and trade..Gallo turned out to be nothing...Will is just an ok player..Moz the same..They didn't help Denver do anything...

Donnie wanted DWill over Melo..We would have been so hosed with Amare, DWill and MDA...We just paid the wrong Lopez 13/14 mil per...DWill 5 mil per and Affalo 8 mil ..We resigned Admunson and Thomas and u are worried about Melo at 22/23 per...If I were Melo, I would be pissed I gave up money for this...

it's 24 million per year.

but lets do this: what would you have thought of melo if he had decided to take a real paycut, and play for 18 million per instead? what would you think of melo then?

your hypocrisy is now firmly settled in my crosshairs..

holfresh wrote:Who is going to give up 40 mil of earnings in the prime of the earning career??..On probably the last big contract of their career..Come on..You have a prob with Melo's money but not the wrong Lopez's money??..Gallo is making 17 mil per...

There's nothing wrong with Melo's money. Top players get paid. I really don't see why people have to focus on Melo so much.

With regard for RoLo his contract is fine. People are making too much of his money as if the money he's making is so out of bounds for his position and ability. We made out just fine with RoLo at Center.

PLAYER          POS.    AGE     TYPE    FROM    TO      YRS     DOLLARS         AVERAGE
Marc Gasol	C	30	UFA	MEM	MEM	5	$113,211,750	$22,642,350
Kevin Love	PF	26	UFA	CLE	CLE	5	$113,211,750	$22,642,350
Kawhi Leonard	SF	24	RFA	SAS	SAS	5	$94,343,125	$18,868,625
Jimmy Butler	SF	25	RFA	CHI	CHI	5	$92,339,878	$18,467,976
DeAndre Jordan	C	27	UFA	LAC	LAC	4	$87,616,050	$21,904,013
Goran Dragic	PG	29	UFA	MIA	MIA	5	$85,002,250	$17,000,450
LaMarcus Aldridge PF	30	UFA	POR	SAS	4	$84,072,030	$21,018,008
Draymond Green	SF	25	RFA	GSW	GSW	5	$82,000,000	$16,400,000
Reggie Jackson	PG	25	RFA	DET	DET	5	$80,000,000	$16,000,000
Tristan Thompson  PF	24	RFA	CLE	CLE	5	$80,000,000	$16,000,000
Enes Kanter	C	23	RFA	OKC	OKC	4	$70,060,026	$17,515,007
Wesley Matthews	SG	28	UFA	POR	DAL	4	$70,060,026	$17,515,007
Brandon Knight	PG	23	RFA	PHX	PHX	5	$70,000,000	$14,000,000
Khris Middleton	SF	24	RFA	MIL	MIL	5	$70,000,000	$14,000,000
Tobias Harris	SF	23	RFA	ORL	ORL	4	$64,000,000	$16,000,000
Brook Lopez	C	27	UFA	BKN	BKN	3	$63,497,025	$21,165,675
Paul Millsap	PF	30	UFA	ATL	ATL	3	$60,216,100	$20,072,033
DeMarre Carroll	SF	29	UFA	ATL	TOR	4	$58,000,000	$14,500,000
Omer Asik	C	29	UFA	NOP	NOP	5	$57,977,525	$11,595,505
Robin Lopez	C	27	UFA	POR	NYK	4	$54,015,500	$13,503,875
Thaddeus Young	SF	27	UFA	BKN	BKN	4	$54,000,000	$13,500,000
Tyson Chandler	C	32	UFA	DAL	PHX	4	$52,000,000	$13,000,000
Greg Monroe	C	25	UFA	DET	MIL	3	$51,437,513	$17,145,838
LeBron James	SF	30	UFA	CLE	CLE	2	$46,974,673	$23,487,337
Monta Ellis	PG	29	UFA	DAL	IND	4	$43,981,000	$10,995,250
Danny Green	SG	28	UFA	SAS	SAS	4	$40,000,000	$10,000,000
Iman Shumpert	SF	25	RFA	CLE	CLE	4	$40,000,000	$10,000,000
Jae Crowder	SF	25	RFA	BOS	BOS	5	$35,000,000	$7,000,000
Kosta Koufos	C	26	UFA	MEM	SAC	4	$32,879,000	$8,219,750
Al-Farouq Aminu	SF	24	UFA	DAL	POR	4	$30,000,000	$7,500,000
Cory Joseph	PG	24	UFA	SAS	TOR	4	$29,890,000	$7,472,500
Amir Johnson	PF	28	UFA	TOR	BOS	2	$24,000,000	$12,000,000
Corey Brewer	SF	29	UFA	HOU	HOU	3	$23,420,913	$7,806,971
Patrick Beverley PG	27	RFA	HOU	HOU	4	$23,027,026	$5,756,757
Louis Williams	SG	28	UFA	TOR	LAL	3	$21,000,017	$7,000,006
Rodney Stuckey	PG	29	UFA	IND	IND	3	$21,000,000	$7,000,000
Dwyane Wade	SG	33	UFA	MIA	MIA	1	$20,000,000	$20,000,000

holfresh wrote:Lopez is 19% of the salary cap...Ridiculous...

Why is that ridiculous? He's a very important cog in how this team is going to function. Whoever we paid to man that spot was going to be a key player and was going to get paid. If it was DeAndre, LMA or Monroe they surely would've been paid more. As it is, RoLo got paid a reasonable salary to provide this team with a defensive anchor and credible Low Post player in the Triangle. RoLo is sufficiently efficient scorer and a tough defender. He's a team player. He's No Frills. He's not the sexy pick but he can get the job done.

RoLo was off his game last year in an injury marred season for him and his team. RoLo in 2013-14 when he was healthy and played a complete season.

Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Centers
RK	PLAYER	                GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
1	DeMarcus Cousins, SAC	71	32.4	.555	10.8	13.1	30.7	10.6	30.5	20.4	26.18	534.5	17.8
2	Brook Lopez, BKN	17	31.4	.629	4.9	8.7	24.1	8.8	14.1	11.5	25.50	118.6	4.0
3	Al Jefferson, CHA	73	35.0	.532	8.7	7.0	26.7	6.9	28.3	17.5	22.75	462.9	15.4
4	Andre Drummond, DET	81	32.3	.599	3.3	10.4	15.6	17.5	27.7	22.3	22.65	470.9	15.7
5	Al Horford, ATL	        29	33.0	.588	12.7	10.7	22.7	8.0	21.4	14.8	22.08	164.2	5.5
6	Dwight Howard, HOU	71	33.7	.600	9.1	15.9	22.0	11.4	27.9	20.1	21.36	384.8	12.8
7	Nikola Pekovic, MIN	54	30.8	.582	5.3	8.9	21.1	13.1	17.6	15.3	20.72	251.2	8.4
8	Joakim Noah, CHI	80	35.3	.531	27.4	12.3	18.9	11.6	24.5	18.2	20.06	398.3	13.3
9	Jordan Hill, LAL	72	20.8	.579	7.4	10.3	17.6	13.8	24.3	19.0	19.39	176.6	5.9
10	Chris Bosh, MIA	        79	32.0	.597	6.8	9.7	20.0	5.1	20.3	13.0	19.11	321.5	10.7
RK	PLAYER	                GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
11	Andray Blatche, BKN	73	22.2	.532	11.3	11.1	23.4	8.9	19.9	14.4	18.85	199.2	6.6
        Nikola Vucevic, ORL	57	31.8	.536	10.7	11.5	20.0	11.5	27.6	19.5	18.85	223.0	7.4
13	Marc Gasol, MEM	        59	33.4	.526	18.8	9.7	21.2	5.0	20.5	12.7	18.27	225.4	7.5
14	DeAndre Jordan, LAC	82	35.0	.630	8.4	14.0	11.3	13.3	29.3	21.6	18.19	325.1	10.8
15	Greg Monroe, DET	82	32.8	.531	11.3	11.0	20.6	9.9	21.6	15.4	18.16	267.4	8.9
16	John Henson, MIL	70	26.5	.543	12.0	12.1	19.1	10.2	20.8	15.3	17.97	204.0	6.8
17	Robin Lopez, POR	82	31.8	.605	8.0	9.3	13.0	13.6	15.3	14.5	17.68	275.2	9.2
18	Marcin Gortat, WSH	81	32.8	.568	11.5	10.5	16.9	8.7	25.1	16.7	17.66	279.7	9.3
19	DeJuan Blair, DAL	78	15.6	.557	11.8	13.0	18.1	13.3	21.6	17.5	17.33	121.9	4.1
20	Andrew Bogut, GS	67	26.4	.610	18.3	15.8	11.9	11.4	29.7	20.7	17.11	171.8	5.7
RK	PLAYER	                GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
21	Chris Kaman, LAL	39	18.9	.537	11.4	14.6	24.3	7.8	25.4	16.6	17.06	71.0	2.4
22	Anderson Varejao, CLE	65	27.7	.527	19.2	9.9	14.3	11.4	28.2	19.6	17.05	173.4	5.8
23	Samuel Dalembert, DAL	80	20.2	.605	6.7	15.9	13.5	14.4	24.2	19.4	16.88	151.3	5.0
24	Timofey Mozgov, DEN	82	21.6	.584	7.4	14.5	17.3	10.4	21.9	16.1	16.77	162.9	5.4
25	Gorgui Dieng, MIN	60	13.6	.534	10.8	15.0	15.8	13.4	26.9	20.0	16.58	73.0	2.4
26	Kosta Koufos, MEM	80	16.9	.514	6.4	11.1	18.0	14.0	22.7	18.4	16.54	119.6	4.0
27	Tyson Chandler, NY	55	30.2	.615	11.3	13.6	12.0	10.9	27.0	18.7	16.48	145.8	4.9
28	Jonas Valanciunas, TOR	81	28.2	.579	5.8	13.8	16.9	11.5	25.1	18.2	16.17	189.6	6.3

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:Question for some of the more experienced Knicks fans: was Bernard King subjected to the same type of criticism as Melo back in his Knicks playing days?

As for Melo accepting a lesser role on the offense, who is it that the Knicks have on their roster now that is bursting with offensive prowess that Melo is holding back?

It's wasn't the same..It was a different era..The big money Melo makes is an issue...24/7 news cycle..The internet..Anyone is writing a column these days...And I mean the dude down the block or in a dorm room or his mother's basement...The hip hop era...Allen Iverson..Corn rolls and tattoos...There hate is real out there but there are some that has legit basketball questions..Just that today they mask their issues and says it's about basketball and the game...It's deeper...Guys like Melo don't carry themselves in a manner that apologies for their wealth or status..It rubs some the wrong way...

you started off with two truths and then went into justifying melo's behavior. the dude has been an in love with himself greedy infantile douche.

You are justifying my point by mentioning "Melo's behavior"...

okay.. so u characterize his behavior a certain way and say it is perfectly good and acceptable behavior. meanwhile i characterize his behavior a certain way, differently from u, and say it is not perfectly good and acceptable.

u seem to be headed down a particular primrose path with your post..

No what I'm saying is that I don't care about Melo's behavior..I could care less what he is doing off the court...Seem like his cash moves bother you, what happens in TMZ and social media..I care when the refs toss up the basketball to when they blow the final whistle...

and when his behavior and business decisions affect the quality of his teams/teammates and the morale of the teams/teammates, what then?

By business decisions, you mean the instances you feel he should act against his own self interest?

you're way too black and white as usual. there's a reason why contracts are negotiated. if you end up with a boatload of cash but a paucity of talent then that's going to be a problem. or, if you are afraid if missing that boat on a big payday and force a trade that pays you well but costs the team you are going to a bunch of human assets in exchange for your services then that too is going to be a problem.

that's why being a savvy negotiator who is finding a balance between money and work atmosphere is so important. melo lacks the savvy because he only sees dollar signs. so he is actually working against his own self interests as an nba player. the money he makes comes ata significant price-- can you understand that statement?

what i have resented about the knicks is that there was an opportunity to build something in 2010. we had ALL the leverage to keep a patient rebuild going, and then completely sabotaged that process. hre we are 4-5 years later and essentially nothing has changed... although i believe we will see signs of that progress that we could have witnessed in 2011-2012 had the melo deal not occurred as it did.

melo as a free agent in 2011-2012 would have been a much better scenario. but yeah he acted in his own perceived self-interest even though it was self-destructive.

You fail to illustrate the bad management we had in the process..U fail to see the bad management in place right now..Donnie and MDA signed Amare..The team was doomed from that single act..Melo or no Melo...Amnestying Billups was a disaster after picking up his option a few months earlier..Bringing in Chandler, another disaster..MDA was a disaster...But you continue to moan about Melo's contract and trade..Gallo turned out to be nothing...Will is just an ok player..Moz the same..They didn't help Denver do anything...

Donnie wanted DWill over Melo..We would have been so hosed with Amare, DWill and MDA...We just paid the wrong Lopez 13/14 mil per...DWill 5 mil per and Affalo 8 mil ..We resigned Admunson and Thomas and u are worried about Melo at 22/23 per...If I were Melo, I would be pissed I gave up money for this...

it's 24 million per year.

but lets do this: what would you have thought of melo if he had decided to take a real paycut, and play for 18 million per instead? what would you think of melo then?

your hypocrisy is now firmly settled in my crosshairs..

Who is going to give up 40 mil of earnings in the prime of the earning career??..On probably the last big contract of their career..Come on..You have a prob with Melo's money but not the wrong Lopez's money??..Gallo is making 17 mil per...

lets say melo did.... what would you think of melo then?

can't you answer this question??

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:Question for some of the more experienced Knicks fans: was Bernard King subjected to the same type of criticism as Melo back in his Knicks playing days?

As for Melo accepting a lesser role on the offense, who is it that the Knicks have on their roster now that is bursting with offensive prowess that Melo is holding back?

It's wasn't the same..It was a different era..The big money Melo makes is an issue...24/7 news cycle..The internet..Anyone is writing a column these days...And I mean the dude down the block or in a dorm room or his mother's basement...The hip hop era...Allen Iverson..Corn rolls and tattoos...There hate is real out there but there are some that has legit basketball questions..Just that today they mask their issues and says it's about basketball and the game...It's deeper...Guys like Melo don't carry themselves in a manner that apologies for their wealth or status..It rubs some the wrong way...

you started off with two truths and then went into justifying melo's behavior. the dude has been an in love with himself greedy infantile douche.

You are justifying my point by mentioning "Melo's behavior"...

okay.. so u characterize his behavior a certain way and say it is perfectly good and acceptable behavior. meanwhile i characterize his behavior a certain way, differently from u, and say it is not perfectly good and acceptable.

u seem to be headed down a particular primrose path with your post..

No what I'm saying is that I don't care about Melo's behavior..I could care less what he is doing off the court...Seem like his cash moves bother you, what happens in TMZ and social media..I care when the refs toss up the basketball to when they blow the final whistle...

and when his behavior and business decisions affect the quality of his teams/teammates and the morale of the teams/teammates, what then?

By business decisions, you mean the instances you feel he should act against his own self interest?

you're way too black and white as usual. there's a reason why contracts are negotiated. if you end up with a boatload of cash but a paucity of talent then that's going to be a problem. or, if you are afraid if missing that boat on a big payday and force a trade that pays you well but costs the team you are going to a bunch of human assets in exchange for your services then that too is going to be a problem.

that's why being a savvy negotiator who is finding a balance between money and work atmosphere is so important. melo lacks the savvy because he only sees dollar signs. so he is actually working against his own self interests as an nba player. the money he makes comes ata significant price-- can you understand that statement?

what i have resented about the knicks is that there was an opportunity to build something in 2010. we had ALL the leverage to keep a patient rebuild going, and then completely sabotaged that process. hre we are 4-5 years later and essentially nothing has changed... although i believe we will see signs of that progress that we could have witnessed in 2011-2012 had the melo deal not occurred as it did.

melo as a free agent in 2011-2012 would have been a much better scenario. but yeah he acted in his own perceived self-interest even though it was self-destructive.

You fail to illustrate the bad management we had in the process..U fail to see the bad management in place right now..Donnie and MDA signed Amare..The team was doomed from that single act..Melo or no Melo...Amnestying Billups was a disaster after picking up his option a few months earlier..Bringing in Chandler, another disaster..MDA was a disaster...But you continue to moan about Melo's contract and trade..Gallo turned out to be nothing...Will is just an ok player..Moz the same..They didn't help Denver do anything...

Donnie wanted DWill over Melo..We would have been so hosed with Amare, DWill and MDA...We just paid the wrong Lopez 13/14 mil per...DWill 5 mil per and Affalo 8 mil ..We resigned Admunson and Thomas and u are worried about Melo at 22/23 per...If I were Melo, I would be pissed I gave up money for this...

it's 24 million per year.

but lets do this: what would you have thought of melo if he had decided to take a real paycut, and play for 18 million per instead? what would you think of melo then?

your hypocrisy is now firmly settled in my crosshairs..

Who is going to give up 40 mil of earnings in the prime of the earning career??..On probably the last big contract of their career..Come on..You have a prob with Melo's money but not the wrong Lopez's money??..Gallo is making 17 mil per...

lets say melo did.... what would you think of melo then?

can't you answer this question??

He would be a pioneer. The first max guy in his prime and at a point in the cba where he can get paid that took less prior to hitting 35 all while playing for a team in a state/city income tax . He also would be the first guy to do it on a team that was very far from being a contender at any age.

that wasn't the question. i did not ask what he would be i asked how you would feel if he had done so.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:Question for some of the more experienced Knicks fans: was Bernard King subjected to the same type of criticism as Melo back in his Knicks playing days?

As for Melo accepting a lesser role on the offense, who is it that the Knicks have on their roster now that is bursting with offensive prowess that Melo is holding back?

It's wasn't the same..It was a different era..The big money Melo makes is an issue...24/7 news cycle..The internet..Anyone is writing a column these days...And I mean the dude down the block or in a dorm room or his mother's basement...The hip hop era...Allen Iverson..Corn rolls and tattoos...There hate is real out there but there are some that has legit basketball questions..Just that today they mask their issues and says it's about basketball and the game...It's deeper...Guys like Melo don't carry themselves in a manner that apologies for their wealth or status..It rubs some the wrong way...

you started off with two truths and then went into justifying melo's behavior. the dude has been an in love with himself greedy infantile douche.

You are justifying my point by mentioning "Melo's behavior"...

okay.. so u characterize his behavior a certain way and say it is perfectly good and acceptable behavior. meanwhile i characterize his behavior a certain way, differently from u, and say it is not perfectly good and acceptable.

u seem to be headed down a particular primrose path with your post..

No what I'm saying is that I don't care about Melo's behavior..I could care less what he is doing off the court...Seem like his cash moves bother you, what happens in TMZ and social media..I care when the refs toss up the basketball to when they blow the final whistle...

and when his behavior and business decisions affect the quality of his teams/teammates and the morale of the teams/teammates, what then?

By business decisions, you mean the instances you feel he should act against his own self interest?

you're way too black and white as usual. there's a reason why contracts are negotiated. if you end up with a boatload of cash but a paucity of talent then that's going to be a problem. or, if you are afraid if missing that boat on a big payday and force a trade that pays you well but costs the team you are going to a bunch of human assets in exchange for your services then that too is going to be a problem.

that's why being a savvy negotiator who is finding a balance between money and work atmosphere is so important. melo lacks the savvy because he only sees dollar signs. so he is actually working against his own self interests as an nba player. the money he makes comes ata significant price-- can you understand that statement?

what i have resented about the knicks is that there was an opportunity to build something in 2010. we had ALL the leverage to keep a patient rebuild going, and then completely sabotaged that process. hre we are 4-5 years later and essentially nothing has changed... although i believe we will see signs of that progress that we could have witnessed in 2011-2012 had the melo deal not occurred as it did.

melo as a free agent in 2011-2012 would have been a much better scenario. but yeah he acted in his own perceived self-interest even though it was self-destructive.

You fail to illustrate the bad management we had in the process..U fail to see the bad management in place right now..Donnie and MDA signed Amare..The team was doomed from that single act..Melo or no Melo...Amnestying Billups was a disaster after picking up his option a few months earlier..Bringing in Chandler, another disaster..MDA was a disaster...But you continue to moan about Melo's contract and trade..Gallo turned out to be nothing...Will is just an ok player..Moz the same..They didn't help Denver do anything...

Donnie wanted DWill over Melo..We would have been so hosed with Amare, DWill and MDA...We just paid the wrong Lopez 13/14 mil per...DWill 5 mil per and Affalo 8 mil ..We resigned Admunson and Thomas and u are worried about Melo at 22/23 per...If I were Melo, I would be pissed I gave up money for this...

it's 24 million per year.

but lets do this: what would you have thought of melo if he had decided to take a real paycut, and play for 18 million per instead? what would you think of melo then?

your hypocrisy is now firmly settled in my crosshairs..

Who is going to give up 40 mil of earnings in the prime of the earning career??..On probably the last big contract of their career..Come on..You have a prob with Melo's money but not the wrong Lopez's money??..Gallo is making 17 mil per...

lets say melo did.... what would you think of melo then?

can't you answer this question??

He would be a pioneer. The first max guy in his prime and at a point in the cba where he can get paid that took less prior to hitting 35 all while playing for a team in a state/city income tax . He also would be the first guy to do it on a team that was very far from being a contender at any age.

that wasn't the question. i did not ask what he would be i asked how you would feel if he had done so.

I would think he was naive and giving up some of his best years(both in terms of cba earning potential and his on court ability) to play in a rebuilding situation where state and city income taxes already compromise his earnings. However, if he took significantly less as a max guy in his prime, under 35, he would be the first to do it and would be a pioneer. The fact that he would be in a rebuilding situation in a state/city where he has to pay income tax to both would also be a first as his income earning potential is already compromised. I also think the players association would frown upon it as being a bad move for their bargaining unit.

naive? k

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:Question for some of the more experienced Knicks fans: was Bernard King subjected to the same type of criticism as Melo back in his Knicks playing days?

As for Melo accepting a lesser role on the offense, who is it that the Knicks have on their roster now that is bursting with offensive prowess that Melo is holding back?

It's wasn't the same..It was a different era..The big money Melo makes is an issue...24/7 news cycle..The internet..Anyone is writing a column these days...And I mean the dude down the block or in a dorm room or his mother's basement...The hip hop era...Allen Iverson..Corn rolls and tattoos...There hate is real out there but there are some that has legit basketball questions..Just that today they mask their issues and says it's about basketball and the game...It's deeper...Guys like Melo don't carry themselves in a manner that apologies for their wealth or status..It rubs some the wrong way...

you started off with two truths and then went into justifying melo's behavior. the dude has been an in love with himself greedy infantile douche.

You are justifying my point by mentioning "Melo's behavior"...

okay.. so u characterize his behavior a certain way and say it is perfectly good and acceptable behavior. meanwhile i characterize his behavior a certain way, differently from u, and say it is not perfectly good and acceptable.

u seem to be headed down a particular primrose path with your post..

No what I'm saying is that I don't care about Melo's behavior..I could care less what he is doing off the court...Seem like his cash moves bother you, what happens in TMZ and social media..I care when the refs toss up the basketball to when they blow the final whistle...

and when his behavior and business decisions affect the quality of his teams/teammates and the morale of the teams/teammates, what then?

By business decisions, you mean the instances you feel he should act against his own self interest?

you're way too black and white as usual. there's a reason why contracts are negotiated. if you end up with a boatload of cash but a paucity of talent then that's going to be a problem. or, if you are afraid if missing that boat on a big payday and force a trade that pays you well but costs the team you are going to a bunch of human assets in exchange for your services then that too is going to be a problem.

that's why being a savvy negotiator who is finding a balance between money and work atmosphere is so important. melo lacks the savvy because he only sees dollar signs. so he is actually working against his own self interests as an nba player. the money he makes comes ata significant price-- can you understand that statement?

what i have resented about the knicks is that there was an opportunity to build something in 2010. we had ALL the leverage to keep a patient rebuild going, and then completely sabotaged that process. hre we are 4-5 years later and essentially nothing has changed... although i believe we will see signs of that progress that we could have witnessed in 2011-2012 had the melo deal not occurred as it did.

melo as a free agent in 2011-2012 would have been a much better scenario. but yeah he acted in his own perceived self-interest even though it was self-destructive.

You fail to illustrate the bad management we had in the process..U fail to see the bad management in place right now..Donnie and MDA signed Amare..The team was doomed from that single act..Melo or no Melo...Amnestying Billups was a disaster after picking up his option a few months earlier..Bringing in Chandler, another disaster..MDA was a disaster...But you continue to moan about Melo's contract and trade..Gallo turned out to be nothing...Will is just an ok player..Moz the same..They didn't help Denver do anything...

Donnie wanted DWill over Melo..We would have been so hosed with Amare, DWill and MDA...We just paid the wrong Lopez 13/14 mil per...DWill 5 mil per and Affalo 8 mil ..We resigned Admunson and Thomas and u are worried about Melo at 22/23 per...If I were Melo, I would be pissed I gave up money for this...

it's 24 million per year.

but lets do this: what would you have thought of melo if he had decided to take a real paycut, and play for 18 million per instead? what would you think of melo then?

your hypocrisy is now firmly settled in my crosshairs..

Who is going to give up 40 mil of earnings in the prime of the earning career??..On probably the last big contract of their career..Come on..You have a prob with Melo's money but not the wrong Lopez's money??..Gallo is making 17 mil per...

lets say melo did.... what would you think of melo then?

can't you answer this question??

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:Question for some of the more experienced Knicks fans: was Bernard King subjected to the same type of criticism as Melo back in his Knicks playing days?

As for Melo accepting a lesser role on the offense, who is it that the Knicks have on their roster now that is bursting with offensive prowess that Melo is holding back?

It's wasn't the same..It was a different era..The big money Melo makes is an issue...24/7 news cycle..The internet..Anyone is writing a column these days...And I mean the dude down the block or in a dorm room or his mother's basement...The hip hop era...Allen Iverson..Corn rolls and tattoos...There hate is real out there but there are some that has legit basketball questions..Just that today they mask their issues and says it's about basketball and the game...It's deeper...Guys like Melo don't carry themselves in a manner that apologies for their wealth or status..It rubs some the wrong way...

you started off with two truths and then went into justifying melo's behavior. the dude has been an in love with himself greedy infantile douche.

You are justifying my point by mentioning "Melo's behavior"...

okay.. so u characterize his behavior a certain way and say it is perfectly good and acceptable behavior. meanwhile i characterize his behavior a certain way, differently from u, and say it is not perfectly good and acceptable.

u seem to be headed down a particular primrose path with your post..

No what I'm saying is that I don't care about Melo's behavior..I could care less what he is doing off the court...Seem like his cash moves bother you, what happens in TMZ and social media..I care when the refs toss up the basketball to when they blow the final whistle...

and when his behavior and business decisions affect the quality of his teams/teammates and the morale of the teams/teammates, what then?

By business decisions, you mean the instances you feel he should act against his own self interest?

you're way too black and white as usual. there's a reason why contracts are negotiated. if you end up with a boatload of cash but a paucity of talent then that's going to be a problem. or, if you are afraid if missing that boat on a big payday and force a trade that pays you well but costs the team you are going to a bunch of human assets in exchange for your services then that too is going to be a problem.

that's why being a savvy negotiator who is finding a balance between money and work atmosphere is so important. melo lacks the savvy because he only sees dollar signs. so he is actually working against his own self interests as an nba player. the money he makes comes ata significant price-- can you understand that statement?

what i have resented about the knicks is that there was an opportunity to build something in 2010. we had ALL the leverage to keep a patient rebuild going, and then completely sabotaged that process. hre we are 4-5 years later and essentially nothing has changed... although i believe we will see signs of that progress that we could have witnessed in 2011-2012 had the melo deal not occurred as it did.

melo as a free agent in 2011-2012 would have been a much better scenario. but yeah he acted in his own perceived self-interest even though it was self-destructive.

You fail to illustrate the bad management we had in the process..U fail to see the bad management in place right now..Donnie and MDA signed Amare..The team was doomed from that single act..Melo or no Melo...Amnestying Billups was a disaster after picking up his option a few months earlier..Bringing in Chandler, another disaster..MDA was a disaster...But you continue to moan about Melo's contract and trade..Gallo turned out to be nothing...Will is just an ok player..Moz the same..They didn't help Denver do anything...

Donnie wanted DWill over Melo..We would have been so hosed with Amare, DWill and MDA...We just paid the wrong Lopez 13/14 mil per...DWill 5 mil per and Affalo 8 mil ..We resigned Admunson and Thomas and u are worried about Melo at 22/23 per...If I were Melo, I would be pissed I gave up money for this...

it's 24 million per year.

but lets do this: what would you have thought of melo if he had decided to take a real paycut, and play for 18 million per instead? what would you think of melo then?

your hypocrisy is now firmly settled in my crosshairs..

Who is going to give up 40 mil of earnings in the prime of the earning career??..On probably the last big contract of their career..Come on..You have a prob with Melo's money but not the wrong Lopez's money??..Gallo is making 17 mil per...

lets say melo did.... what would you think of melo then?

can't you answer this question??

Strange question..I don't think about Melo's money..I wouldn't care or think anything of him...If he wants to do Phil a solid, he wants to do Phil a solid..

compartmentalization is the sign of mental illness. you need to have your head examined.

My point of view is that Melo is being paid around what a player of his ilk is paid...2 mil here or there isn't an issue...If Melo asked for and received 30 mil then I have issues...Dude brings it to the court, to the seats, and to the tube...It's a business first..Pay the man...Because, Dolan is getting paid, Phil is getting paid and Fisher is getting paid..

The wrong Lopez isn't brining it...13 mil per is well overpaid given his production...I wouldn't pay him over 7/8 mil but that's just me...