Sorry, but I strive for more than that.

nixluva wrote:

Key Additions

Arron Afflalo (free agent), Robin Lopez (free agent), Kristaps Porzingis (draft), Kyle O'Quinn (free agency sign-and-trade), Jerian Grant (draft), Lou Amundson (free agent)

Key Losses

Andrea Bargnani (free agent, Nets), Cole Aldrich (free agent, Clippers), Shane Larkin (free agent, Nets), Jason Smith (free agent, Magic), Alexey Shved (free agent, Khimki Moscow), Quincy Acy (free agent, Kings)

***
Will the Knicks be better than the broken sewer line they were last year? Yes, the sewage geyser has been shut off. Knicks fans really don't ask for much. They get excited when the team is good, but generally, they just don't want their team to be an embarrassment. This has been too much to ask of New York for much of the 21st century, and last year was somehow even sadder. It was a wasted year for everyone involved; no matter how Phil Jackson wants to spin it. New York wanted to compete last year, but it was just awful. However, at last Jackson had the dignity to do what so few Knicks teams did before, and truly start to tank by the time Christmas hit.

The talk all spring was of the same hopes we always hear with the Knicks. The big free agent will come save the day and put New York back where it belongs! First it was Marc Gasol, and then LaMarcus Aldridge, and then, sadly, Greg Monroe. If things had kept going it would have become "Tyler Hansbrough will save the day!" Instead, New York struck out, but it also did the smart thing by not panicking and shelling out max money to someone highly underserving of such an investment, which would've been the Knicks thing to do.

Instead, they got tremendous value with Arron Afflalo on a two-year deal. Afflalo was an All-Star candidate in Orlando, then Denver wildly disappointed him (and he them) with the Brian Shaw era. In Portland, he never found his groove. There's a versatile two-way guard who can shoot from the outside, post at the elbow and make smart plays locked somewhere inside Afflalo, and the Knicks hope the Triangle will unlock it. They also added Robin Lopez, who is the very model of how a young, inexperienced and low-awareness defensive prospect can blossom. Lopez is a handful down low, able to hit baby hooks, tip-backs, and generally make plays. He also became a good-to-great defender at times in Portland. He's exactly what New York needed. Kyle O'Quinn gives them brute strength and some skill at power forward, and he's a terrific rotation player compared to what they've had.

They also have some young talent, finally. Along with the youngsters they picked up in the second round last year, they added hyper-prospect Kristaps Porzingis. The rookie could be Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Durant, Darko Milicic, Andrea Bargnani or anywhere in between. He was an upside pick and shows a commitment by the Knicks toward a long-term plan, something sorely lacking at any point in recent memory. Jerian Grant gives them a point guard who can tie his shoes and chew gum at the same time, so they're already making big strides.

You don't look at the Knicks roster and go, "Wow!" They're not "scary." But they are functional, and that's an improvement as they work toward whatever the Zen Master and his protege want to build.

What will improve first: offense or defense? It's a great question not only because of the upside of both units, but because they really couldn't get much worse. The Knicks had the second-worst offense behind the Sixers, and were third-worst defensively behind the Wolves and Lakers per 100 possessions.

The good news is the defense should make some strides, Carmelo Anthony notwithstanding. Afflalo is not the true lockdown guy that he showed in his early years in Detroit and Denver, but he's at least a capable veteran who, when locked in and engaged, can handle his assignment. This addition can't be overstated as the Knicks' wing defenders were truly horrible last year. Lopez, meanwhile, gives them a legit rim protector, which will further enhance an interior defense that was, believe it or not, actually pretty good last year -- when New York, despite not having a Lopez-like presence in the middle, registered the eight-best restricted-area defensive percentage, per NBA.com.

Compare this to offense, where Kristaps Porzingis is going to be facing size-defenders the likes of which he's never faced. Afflalo, O'Quinn and Lopez are learning the Triangle, which, in addition to its inherent complexity, brings with it a high level of unfamiliarity. It's just fundamentally different from what players are used to. Derek Fisher has admitted there's a good chance the team runs more pick-and-roll next season (thank the heavens), but the Triangle's mysticism will still pervade and confuse the offensive sets.

More than likely, Anthony will again feel the need to carry the team. That means more inefficiency, more isolation, more wear and tear. And truthfully, that still may be the Knicks' best offense given their personel. If Anthony remains the same player he's been year after year, he'll be a phenomenal scoring weapon with some huge nights and a general drag of efficiency, both individually and team-wide. It just comes with the territory.

The defense simply gives Knicks fans more to be excited about.

What are realistic expectations for this team? Listen, if Melo suddenly becomes the player he's so badly needed to evolve into, goes away from everything we just said and ditches the inefficient isoaltions for ball movement and system discipline, the Knicks could actually be a .500 team, or even a little better. I know that sounds crazy given what they've been of late, but the pieces are starting to make sense. They may not actually stink.

The key here is moderation and context -- two things typically absent when it comes to New York sports fans. Can they make the playoffs? It's feasible, mostly because the Eastern Conference is nothing but the Cavaliers, Hawks, Bulls, Wizards, Raptors, Bucks and a bunch of flotsam, and even some of those teams have awfully good flotsam camouflage. Still, while the Knicks won't be as awful as they've been, it's very unlikely they'll qualify as "good." They might be "last year's Bucks good" in terms of not being a team that makes you want to throw your television out after watching.

Really, the expectation should be to continue the long-term plan. Instill the principles of the Triangle, don't be so horrendous and don't make moves that sacrifice the future for the glimmer of some short-term razzle-dazzle. Get better. Stay healthy. Be patient.

It's a concrete jungle where dreams are made of, and all that. Let's start just by not getting eaten by the wildlife, and figuring out what a real plan for that dream is.

I found it funny that he totally ignored Derrick Williams. LOL that guy gets no respect. He's been that bad so far but I think he's gonna be better in this system, which is more democratic, will give DWill a clear role and won't freeze him out.

I don't think DW was really all that bad last year. Did he play like a #2 pick in the draft? No but we all know he isn't that and won't ever be that but he still played well especially towards the end of the year and that's why G.Karl wanted him back. Now i'm sure someone is gonna jump all over this like i'm saying he had a great year but that's not what i'm saying at all. I'm saying he's good enough for what his role will be.

nixluva wrote:

Key Additions

Arron Afflalo (free agent), Robin Lopez (free agent), Kristaps Porzingis (draft), Kyle O'Quinn (free agency sign-and-trade), Jerian Grant (draft), Lou Amundson (free agent)

Key Losses

Andrea Bargnani (free agent, Nets), Cole Aldrich (free agent, Clippers), Shane Larkin (free agent, Nets), Jason Smith (free agent, Magic), Alexey Shved (free agent, Khimki Moscow), Quincy Acy (free agent, Kings)

***
Will the Knicks be better than the broken sewer line they were last year? Yes, the sewage geyser has been shut off. Knicks fans really don't ask for much. They get excited when the team is good, but generally, they just don't want their team to be an embarrassment. This has been too much to ask of New York for much of the 21st century, and last year was somehow even sadder. It was a wasted year for everyone involved; no matter how Phil Jackson wants to spin it. New York wanted to compete last year, but it was just awful. However, at last Jackson had the dignity to do what so few Knicks teams did before, and truly start to tank by the time Christmas hit.

The talk all spring was of the same hopes we always hear with the Knicks. The big free agent will come save the day and put New York back where it belongs! First it was Marc Gasol, and then LaMarcus Aldridge, and then, sadly, Greg Monroe. If things had kept going it would have become "Tyler Hansbrough will save the day!" Instead, New York struck out, but it also did the smart thing by not panicking and shelling out max money to someone highly underserving of such an investment, which would've been the Knicks thing to do.

Instead, they got tremendous value with Arron Afflalo on a two-year deal. Afflalo was an All-Star candidate in Orlando, then Denver wildly disappointed him (and he them) with the Brian Shaw era. In Portland, he never found his groove. There's a versatile two-way guard who can shoot from the outside, post at the elbow and make smart plays locked somewhere inside Afflalo, and the Knicks hope the Triangle will unlock it. They also added Robin Lopez, who is the very model of how a young, inexperienced and low-awareness defensive prospect can blossom. Lopez is a handful down low, able to hit baby hooks, tip-backs, and generally make plays. He also became a good-to-great defender at times in Portland. He's exactly what New York needed. Kyle O'Quinn gives them brute strength and some skill at power forward, and he's a terrific rotation player compared to what they've had.

They also have some young talent, finally. Along with the youngsters they picked up in the second round last year, they added hyper-prospect Kristaps Porzingis. The rookie could be Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Durant, Darko Milicic, Andrea Bargnani or anywhere in between. He was an upside pick and shows a commitment by the Knicks toward a long-term plan, something sorely lacking at any point in recent memory. Jerian Grant gives them a point guard who can tie his shoes and chew gum at the same time, so they're already making big strides.

You don't look at the Knicks roster and go, "Wow!" They're not "scary." But they are functional, and that's an improvement as they work toward whatever the Zen Master and his protege want to build.

What will improve first: offense or defense? It's a great question not only because of the upside of both units, but because they really couldn't get much worse. The Knicks had the second-worst offense behind the Sixers, and were third-worst defensively behind the Wolves and Lakers per 100 possessions.

The good news is the defense should make some strides, Carmelo Anthony notwithstanding. Afflalo is not the true lockdown guy that he showed in his early years in Detroit and Denver, but he's at least a capable veteran who, when locked in and engaged, can handle his assignment. This addition can't be overstated as the Knicks' wing defenders were truly horrible last year. Lopez, meanwhile, gives them a legit rim protector, which will further enhance an interior defense that was, believe it or not, actually pretty good last year -- when New York, despite not having a Lopez-like presence in the middle, registered the eight-best restricted-area defensive percentage, per NBA.com.

Compare this to offense, where Kristaps Porzingis is going to be facing size-defenders the likes of which he's never faced. Afflalo, O'Quinn and Lopez are learning the Triangle, which, in addition to its inherent complexity, brings with it a high level of unfamiliarity. It's just fundamentally different from what players are used to. Derek Fisher has admitted there's a good chance the team runs more pick-and-roll next season (thank the heavens), but the Triangle's mysticism will still pervade and confuse the offensive sets.

More than likely, Anthony will again feel the need to carry the team. That means more inefficiency, more isolation, more wear and tear. And truthfully, that still may be the Knicks' best offense given their personel. If Anthony remains the same player he's been year after year, he'll be a phenomenal scoring weapon with some huge nights and a general drag of efficiency, both individually and team-wide. It just comes with the territory.

The defense simply gives Knicks fans more to be excited about.

What are realistic expectations for this team? Listen, if Melo suddenly becomes the player he's so badly needed to evolve into, goes away from everything we just said and ditches the inefficient isoaltions for ball movement and system discipline, the Knicks could actually be a .500 team, or even a little better. I know that sounds crazy given what they've been of late, but the pieces are starting to make sense. They may not actually stink.

The key here is moderation and context -- two things typically absent when it comes to New York sports fans. Can they make the playoffs? It's feasible, mostly because the Eastern Conference is nothing but the Cavaliers, Hawks, Bulls, Wizards, Raptors, Bucks and a bunch of flotsam, and even some of those teams have awfully good flotsam camouflage. Still, while the Knicks won't be as awful as they've been, it's very unlikely they'll qualify as "good." They might be "last year's Bucks good" in terms of not being a team that makes you want to throw your television out after watching.

Really, the expectation should be to continue the long-term plan. Instill the principles of the Triangle, don't be so horrendous and don't make moves that sacrifice the future for the glimmer of some short-term razzle-dazzle. Get better. Stay healthy. Be patient.

It's a concrete jungle where dreams are made of, and all that. Let's start just by not getting eaten by the wildlife, and figuring out what a real plan for that dream is.

I found it funny that he totally ignored Derrick Williams. LOL that guy gets no respect. He's been that bad so far but I think he's gonna be better in this system, which is more democratic, will give DWill a clear role and won't freeze him out.

I still.don't understand why we signed him in the firstplace.

its not that we strive for more, but sometimes be realistic. I for one can't map out the road to contention as its a multi year congruence of events.

For now we have a dude seven foot pouching 3 that got mad skills for his height. If he is a god in the making its a few seasons away. For now, I'll enjoy his progress. As for Me7o, I hope he tears it up and knicks culture of playoffs being the annual lowest level begins.

An all-star level Melo is better than pouting injured Melo either on the court or as a trade asset.

EnySpree wrote:

knickscity wrote:I really didnt bother to read far into the article, and I stopped right here....."Knicks fans really don't ask for much. They get excited when the team is good, but generally, they just don't want their team to be an embarrassment."

Sorry, but I strive for more than that.

I hate it when writers think they know fans. Just write the article and keep us out of it.

I think Writers mistake Real Knicks fans for the people that show up at the Garden every night even in awful seasons. I think they assume that we have low standards just because the building is full every night.

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

knickscity wrote:I really didnt bother to read far into the article, and I stopped right here....."Knicks fans really don't ask for much. They get excited when the team is good, but generally, they just don't want their team to be an embarrassment."

Sorry, but I strive for more than that.

I hate it when writers think they know fans. Just write the article and keep us out of it.

I think Writers mistake Real Knicks fans for the people that show up at the Garden every night even in awful seasons. I think they assume that we have low standards just because the building is full every night.

Lol, who do you think goes to the Garden every night?

Shareholders, partners, employers that give us their employees tickets from time to time.

Same with Rangers game. Half are real fans, half are corporate schmoozers.

Tickets are expensive! Luxury boxes...fuggedaboutit!

VCoug wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

knickscity wrote:I really didnt bother to read far into the article, and I stopped right here....."Knicks fans really don't ask for much. They get excited when the team is good, but generally, they just don't want their team to be an embarrassment."

Sorry, but I strive for more than that.

I hate it when writers think they know fans. Just write the article and keep us out of it.

I think Writers mistake Real Knicks fans for the people that show up at the Garden every night even in awful seasons. I think they assume that we have low standards just because the building is full every night.

Lol, who do you think goes to the Garden every night?

Shareholders, partners, employers that give us their employees tickets from time to time.

Same with Rangers game. Half are real fans, half are corporate schmoozers.

Tickets are expensive! Luxury boxes...fuggedaboutit!

Give me a break. MSG seats 18,000+ and there are only 89 luxury boxes (Source). It's ridiculous to believe that any significant portion of the 18,000+ people who go to games aren't fans.

You don't think these guys get a good chunk of the tickets?

http://www.themadisonsquaregardencompany.com/partners.html

You must not work in NY. Tons of suits go after work to Knicks and Rangers games sometimes free, solely because they're associated with JP Morgan, or SAP, or several other companies not even listed here.

VCoug wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

VCoug wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

knickscity wrote:I really didnt bother to read far into the article, and I stopped right here....."Knicks fans really don't ask for much. They get excited when the team is good, but generally, they just don't want their team to be an embarrassment."

Sorry, but I strive for more than that.

I hate it when writers think they know fans. Just write the article and keep us out of it.

I think Writers mistake Real Knicks fans for the people that show up at the Garden every night even in awful seasons. I think they assume that we have low standards just because the building is full every night.

Lol, who do you think goes to the Garden every night?

Shareholders, partners, employers that give us their employees tickets from time to time.

Same with Rangers game. Half are real fans, half are corporate schmoozers.

Tickets are expensive! Luxury boxes...fuggedaboutit!

Give me a break. MSG seats 18,000+ and there are only 89 luxury boxes (Source). It's ridiculous to believe that any significant portion of the 18,000+ people who go to games aren't fans.

You don't think these guys get a good chunk of the tickets?

http://www.themadisonsquaregardencompany.com/partners.html

You must not work in NY. Tons of suits go after work to Knicks and Rangers games sometimes free, solely because they're associated with JP Morgan, or SAP, or several other companies not even listed here.

I have worked in NY and I also used to go to Knicks games on a regular basis. How many of the 18,000+ seats do you think are bought by companies?

I'm not saying every seat is bought, but there are the die hard season ticket holders, the tourists that buy on stubhub, the fan that gets like a 4 pack or 8 pack deal, the fan that goes to their 1 game a season in the nosebleeds, and the ones that go due to corporate perks.

There's definitely a demographic to it, not all hardcore Knick fans.