WaltLongmire wrote:Interesting dynamics and hypothetical situations to think about:

1) If Anthony had exercised his option-played out the last year of his previous contract, and not gotten injured this year, how much more money could he have commanded from a team during this year's FA feeding frenzy?

2) Using the same scenario, except he does get hurt... How would his FA value have gone down in the market we just saw if he had been injured?

3) What about this? Melo opts in to his final year...and gets hurt- Does he continue playing until the All-Star game knowing that he is going to be on the FA market...or does he shut it down as soon as he knows he needs surgery and get the operation- maybe coming back at the end of the year to show his fitness- so teams know he is healthy before bidding on him?

4)Can we assume that Anthony had to take a physical before his most recent contract...does this HAVE to be done ALL the time?

Just wondering.

If he played out his contract and DJordan's contract rolled of Clippers book...I'm sure the Clippers would be happy to sign Melo in place of Jordan if the salary slot was available..

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Interesting dynamics and hypothetical situations to think about:

1) If Anthony had exercised his option-played out the last year of his previous contract, and not gotten injured this year, how much more money could he have commanded from a team during this year's FA feeding frenzy?

2) Using the same scenario, except he does get hurt... How would his FA value have gone down in the market we just saw if he had been injured?

3) What about this? Melo opts in to his final year...and gets hurt- Does he continue playing until the All-Star game knowing that he is going to be on the FA market...or does he shut it down as soon as he knows he needs surgery and get the operation- maybe coming back at the end of the year to show his fitness- so teams know he is healthy before bidding on him?

4)Can we assume that Anthony had to take a physical before his most recent contract...does this HAVE to be done ALL the time?

Just wondering.

If he played out his contract and DJordan's contract rolled of Clippers book...I'm sure the Clippers would be happy to sign Melo in place of Jordan if the salary slot was available..

Pure speculation, of course...not sure who Blake and Doc would have wanted, though.

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Interesting dynamics and hypothetical situations to think about:

1) If Anthony had exercised his option-played out the last year of his previous contract, and not gotten injured this year, how much more money could he have commanded from a team during this year's FA feeding frenzy?

2) Using the same scenario, except he does get hurt... How would his FA value have gone down in the market we just saw if he had been injured?

3) What about this? Melo opts in to his final year...and gets hurt- Does he continue playing until the All-Star game knowing that he is going to be on the FA market...or does he shut it down as soon as he knows he needs surgery and get the operation- maybe coming back at the end of the year to show his fitness- so teams know he is healthy before bidding on him?

4)Can we assume that Anthony had to take a physical before his most recent contract...does this HAVE to be done ALL the time?

Just wondering.

If he played out his contract and DJordan's contract rolled of Clippers book...I'm sure the Clippers would be happy to sign Melo in place of Jordan if the salary slot was available..

There you go. And you think Jordan who b-lined to Texas would have come here?

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:If you can't get stars to play with melo, then grow your own. We are. No guarantee so no starphuching.

Clyde is right and Im sure Melo is disappointed Phil didn't starphuch as did Isiah, as we did with old ass Ewing cuz its not the right thing for the franchise.
If Melo could recruit and get a top star to play maybe we trade KP for a package to round out the roster and have at it. But that's not what happened. Its not melo's fault, or phil's its the current dynamic.

Best thing FOR NOW is Melo get healthy, and play well. Make his cuts without the ball and move his arse. Be a good teammate and showcase his talent. Like A-rod, just play ball and good things will happen. If Melo can lead this team to a playoff berth, fantastic. If he is an allstar and Phil deems the best for the franchise is to trade him, and of course Melo is game, then trade him.

Until then, have a nice summer. Good for Clyde and captain obvious!

That's Phil's job isn't it...

Im not blaming and pointing fingers. For all I know Melo made the calls but did not publicize it. Im just stating was put out there.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/29/carmelo-plans-to-recruit-stars-to-knicks-i-have-a-big-black-book/

Well a 17 win season and a roster with one NBA starter, a coach that seems lost and out of his depths, a GM with a massive ego with a penchant to incoherent internet ramblings, tossing players under the bus, isn't a good selling point is it...

I suppose its easy to just say "we could have done better" without any point by point details and especially in real time when opportunities might have been in front of us, and what the choices were.

All that without the benefit of hindsight?

Bottom line is do you think the roster is better rignt now than it was 12 months ago? Seems like we have size and balance. No stars added to be excited about, and really Oka4 if he was our top pick would have some limitations. There is no scenario by which we'd be ecstatic unless we drafted OKA and got Aldridge to play PF. That means he chose us over LA (he has a house there in the offseason) or Texas (where he is from) and playing for a team that is one year removed from a championship. Other that that, I can't see how things played out that we'd be big on a big name allstar FA.

YOu can hate fish but you have to realize the numerous roster changes and if he is disciple of phil's then the stoic cluelessness is at times him wanting his team to figure it out (what phil used to do) mixed in with rookie coaching mistakes. That team last year sucked big time, but in my book he gave the guys under contract a fair chance to bring it together. They failed, his coach failed and Phil failed.

And somehow you think some mystical person besides Phil and Fish can some how perform magic? Easy to say "we could have done better", and im sure PHil can say the same thing in hindsight as well. We all can.

Actually if holfresh had his way, Woodson would still be coach, the gang would've been still together, and we'd win 54 games again with no trades to Cleveland!

I don't hate Mills either for this reason when he was hired. While he was a sitting patsy during the AnuchaGate era the guy still had some cred with me. MSG is a phuched up place, its hard to evaluate talent.

Take a step back, Knicks revolving door of GM's since Checketts left is messed up. The coaching even worse. When Van Gundy and Grunfeld butting heads and Grunfeld let go because JVG had a clause if he goes to finals he gets two year extension at 2mil each. Well, look at what he had to pay chaney, wilkins, Larry and Isiah in retrospect. Grunfeld had built the team that went to the finals!!!!

Dolan been driving this ship for years. McKinsey consulting came in and Dolan listened for a change.

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:If you can't get stars to play with melo, then grow your own. We are. No guarantee so no starphuching.

Clyde is right and Im sure Melo is disappointed Phil didn't starphuch as did Isiah, as we did with old ass Ewing cuz its not the right thing for the franchise.
If Melo could recruit and get a top star to play maybe we trade KP for a package to round out the roster and have at it. But that's not what happened. Its not melo's fault, or phil's its the current dynamic.

Best thing FOR NOW is Melo get healthy, and play well. Make his cuts without the ball and move his arse. Be a good teammate and showcase his talent. Like A-rod, just play ball and good things will happen. If Melo can lead this team to a playoff berth, fantastic. If he is an allstar and Phil deems the best for the franchise is to trade him, and of course Melo is game, then trade him.

Until then, have a nice summer. Good for Clyde and captain obvious!

That's Phil's job isn't it...

Im not blaming and pointing fingers. For all I know Melo made the calls but did not publicize it. Im just stating was put out there.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/29/carmelo-plans-to-recruit-stars-to-knicks-i-have-a-big-black-book/

Well a 17 win season and a roster with one NBA starter, a coach that seems lost and out of his depths, a GM with a massive ego with a penchant to incoherent internet ramblings, tossing players under the bus, isn't a good selling point is it...

I suppose its easy to just say "we could have done better" without any point by point details and especially in real time when opportunities might have been in front of us, and what the choices were.

All that without the benefit of hindsight?

Bottom line is do you think the roster is better rignt now than it was 12 months ago? Seems like we have size and balance. No stars added to be excited about, and really Oka4 if he was our top pick would have some limitations. There is no scenario by which we'd be ecstatic unless we drafted OKA and got Aldridge to play PF. That means he chose us over LA (he has a house there in the offseason) or Texas (where he is from) and playing for a team that is one year removed from a championship. Other that that, I can't see how things played out that we'd be big on a big name allstar FA.

YOu can hate fish but you have to realize the numerous roster changes and if he is disciple of phil's then the stoic cluelessness is at times him wanting his team to figure it out (what phil used to do) mixed in with rookie coaching mistakes. That team last year sucked big time, but in my book he gave the guys under contract a fair chance to bring it together. They failed, his coach failed and Phil failed.

And somehow you think some mystical person besides Phil and Fish can some how perform magic? Easy to say "we could have done better", and im sure PHil can say the same thing in hindsight as well. We all can.

We could of hired a more qualified coach and empowered him to implement his vision so the roster can respect and trust the vision of their coach...Or even trust Fish to implement his own vision..I think when you have a situation where the coach is just a figurehead it runs counter to how most successful sports organizations are managed...I think that's a big factor in the lack of early success last year..There wasn't any bond or belief in the coach by the players which is necessary for success...Now Phil is bringing in players who are more docile and acquiescent, who won't question the hierarchy and structure...Is that the best interest of the Knicks or the best interest of the head of basketball operations???

I don't think anything mystical is needed to outperform 17 wins..Phil claimed he wanted to rebuild thru free agency..With all the pieces we traded, need needed to get back one legit NBA starter and a bench player not named Calderon...We needed a few pieces to go into free agency to say, this is what we already have waiting for you..The Knicks couldn't play that hand because the cupboard was empty...

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:If you can't get stars to play with melo, then grow your own. We are. No guarantee so no starphuching.

Clyde is right and Im sure Melo is disappointed Phil didn't starphuch as did Isiah, as we did with old ass Ewing cuz its not the right thing for the franchise.
If Melo could recruit and get a top star to play maybe we trade KP for a package to round out the roster and have at it. But that's not what happened. Its not melo's fault, or phil's its the current dynamic.

Best thing FOR NOW is Melo get healthy, and play well. Make his cuts without the ball and move his arse. Be a good teammate and showcase his talent. Like A-rod, just play ball and good things will happen. If Melo can lead this team to a playoff berth, fantastic. If he is an allstar and Phil deems the best for the franchise is to trade him, and of course Melo is game, then trade him.

Until then, have a nice summer. Good for Clyde and captain obvious!

That's Phil's job isn't it...

Im not blaming and pointing fingers. For all I know Melo made the calls but did not publicize it. Im just stating was put out there.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/29/carmelo-plans-to-recruit-stars-to-knicks-i-have-a-big-black-book/

Well a 17 win season and a roster with one NBA starter, a coach that seems lost and out of his depths, a GM with a massive ego with a penchant to incoherent internet ramblings, tossing players under the bus, isn't a good selling point is it...

I suppose its easy to just say "we could have done better" without any point by point details and especially in real time when opportunities might have been in front of us, and what the choices were.

All that without the benefit of hindsight?

Bottom line is do you think the roster is better rignt now than it was 12 months ago? Seems like we have size and balance. No stars added to be excited about, and really Oka4 if he was our top pick would have some limitations. There is no scenario by which we'd be ecstatic unless we drafted OKA and got Aldridge to play PF. That means he chose us over LA (he has a house there in the offseason) or Texas (where he is from) and playing for a team that is one year removed from a championship. Other that that, I can't see how things played out that we'd be big on a big name allstar FA.

YOu can hate fish but you have to realize the numerous roster changes and if he is disciple of phil's then the stoic cluelessness is at times him wanting his team to figure it out (what phil used to do) mixed in with rookie coaching mistakes. That team last year sucked big time, but in my book he gave the guys under contract a fair chance to bring it together. They failed, his coach failed and Phil failed.

And somehow you think some mystical person besides Phil and Fish can some how perform magic? Easy to say "we could have done better", and im sure PHil can say the same thing in hindsight as well. We all can.

We could of hired a more qualified coach and empowered him to implement his vision so the roster can respect and trust the vision of their coach...Or even trust Fish to implement his own vision..I think when you have a situation where the coach is just a figurehead it runs counter to how most successful sports organizations are managed...I think that's a big factor in the lack of early success last year..There wasn't any bond or belief in the coach by the players which is necessary for success...Now Phil is bringing in players who are more docile and acquiescent, who won't question the hierarchy and structure...Is that the best interest of the Knicks or the best interest of the head of basketball operations???

I don't think anything mystical is needed to outperform 17 wins..Phil claimed he wanted to rebuild thru free agency..With all the pieces we traded, need needed to get back one legit NBA starter and a bench player not named Calderon...We needed a few pieces to go into free agency to say, this is what we already have waiting for you..The Knicks couldn't play that hand because the cupboard was empty...

The coach is a work in progress and last season was transitional at best. What are they going to say to sell tickets? We will suck, chill, and we should draft high?

There are "More qualified" coach's but Phil saw Kerr and Fish as future, not the present. Im sure phish is on everyone's "Watch list" but I judge him not for what happened as the roster was volatile, unbalanced, and turn over was high but I would give him a "few years" and for all things Phil can or cannot do, I'd say evaluate a coach should be in his talent scope.

...

Now Phil is bringing in players who are more docile and acquiescent, who won't question the hierarchy and structure...Is that the best interest of the Knicks or the best interest of the head of basketball operations???

If you believe that, I'd say your not quite open minded. You got a problem with Phil and I suppose time will tell. BTW, I don't think we make the playoffs this year on paper, but I am hopeful KP is more than just the future, and 1+1=3 where chemistry/triangle are value added. If so, Phil and Fish should be praised.

I have stated the problem I have with Phil..Let the coach do the coaching...The players won't believe otherwise...You don't need an open mind to figure that out..