Think the triangle is antiquated? They thought the same when phil took over the bulls as well. His books won't tell you anyting about the current situation but you can superimpose a bit on how he has coached, or really managed men.

Then you'll understand that privately he might be helping a kid like Derrick Williams not just be a better basketball player, but round out his life. He has a history of mentorship and maybe Williams is very willing person to not just play better, but grow. I might guess that JR might not have been willing or accepted the books phil likes to give players. Some of these guys were pushed thru school and might not have very good reading comprehension as it is and would rather not let anyone know it.

In his latest book he called out Fish as an average player who worked on his game and was a great leader which made him clutch and respected.

Read some of the books. It helps as a fan to understand where he might be taking this organization.

MY take is he and Melo have made a commitement to each other and to the team. That does not mean it will work, or there is not a time frame but its just my take.

Nalod wrote:
I urge some of you to read his books and you'll gain a huge understanding of how the man thinks.

Think the triangle is antiquated? They thought the same when phil took over the bulls as well. His books won't tell you anyting about the current situation but you can superimpose a bit on how he has coached, or really managed men.

Then you'll understand that privately he might be helping a kid like Derrick Williams not just be a better basketball player, but round out his life. He has a history of mentorship and maybe Williams is very willing person to not just play better, but grow. I might guess that JR might not have been willing or accepted the books phil likes to give players. Some of these guys were pushed thru school and might not have very good reading comprehension as it is and would rather not let anyone know it.

In his latest book he called out Fish as an average player who worked on his game and was a great leader which made him clutch and respected.

Read some of the books. It helps as a fan to understand where he might be taking this organization.

MY take is he and Melo have made a commitement to each other and to the team. That does not mean it will work, or there is not a time frame but its just my take.

I just he's in a different role, and doesn't have the same impact he had as a coach.

Im speaking in hindsight so we don't know what will become in 3 years.

Phil is one of the greatest leaders in the history of the game. BTW, Mreinman, are you speaking as one who read the books?

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Leadership.

Im speaking in hindsight so we don't know what will become in 3 years.

Phil is one of the greatest leaders in the history of the game. BTW, Mreinman, are you speaking as one who read the books?

yes. I am.

I have read his books and have quoted him numerous times. I love that phil.

I initially became interested because I wanted to understand the Phil/Kobe dynamic.

Phil don't like Kobe, and Kobe don't like phil but the results were there. That's just my impression that there is mutual respect for the result.

arkrud wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Leadership.

Im speaking in hindsight so we don't know what will become in 3 years.

Phil is one of the greatest leaders in the history of the game. BTW, Mreinman, are you speaking as one who read the books?

yes. I am.

I have read his books and have quoted him numerous times. I love that phil.

I initially became interested because I wanted to understand the Phil/Kobe dynamic.

Phil don't like Kobe, and Kobe don't like phil but the results were there. That's just my impression that there is mutual respect for the result.

When you go to war you need crazy rebels in your army to win.
The law of the War is much different. The morale is taking back stage.
Kobe is a snake you want to have on your site. Just make sure you have an antidote handy.

Lol snake....like a Black Mamba?

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Leadership.

Im speaking in hindsight so we don't know what will become in 3 years.

Phil is one of the greatest leaders in the history of the game. BTW, Mreinman, are you speaking as one who read the books?

yes. I am.

I have read his books and have quoted him numerous times. I love that phil.

I initially became interested because I wanted to understand the Phil/Kobe dynamic.

Phil don't like Kobe, and Kobe don't like phil but the results were there. That's just my impression that there is mutual respect for the result.

phil don't like melo neither.

I am sure that we will finally get to hear all about it in an upcoming book.

I don't get the dislike, I think the message we have seen is "your not bigger than the franchise" Or " you can be the star, but the system will make you, not the other way around". Reality is players are brands too and revenue does matter. Phish understands the ego thing.

Yes, there will be a book. I don't see a clear path to a championship nor is Melo pre godlike Jordan or Kobe.

In Phils book he discusses the building of brotherhood, togetherness and he uses his Christian and Buddist teachings as good examples. He has filled his coaching staff hand picked with men he trusts to build that. I see him as leader and doing what he knows. Thus the shift from being centric on star player days are gone. The franchise was near destroyed by empowering Marbury and for the price it paid it pandered to Melo as well. Melo is not Marbury. This franchise put too much on its "stars" and while Melo is the last remnant of a by gone knick era, he is still a talented allstar and we are better on the court with him, or as a trade asset and thus worthy of the contract he got.

How and were we take that remains to be seen. My opinion matters little and we can only guess and argue over it.
The books give insight to phils past and usually we draw from experience to move forward.

The Triangle was labeled old fashioned when he took over the bulls. Its being labeled the same by some now. PHil is not the coach but he is the leader of the franchise. I expect Fish to teach these guys how to win and how to think as one. I would imagine the books will be given to some players and perhaps they can enlighten. Phil also wanted his players to figure things out on their own and not always be micromanaged on the court. Some of Fish's critics think he is clueless or stoic and does not call time outs. I see this as similar to how phil coached. Games become classrooms for them to learn. Expect more of this.

Fans will call for Fish's head. Read the books. If Phil does the hiring and firing, then you'll understand a new coach is not the same agenda as the man in charge.

GustavBahler wrote:Phil went kicking and screaming into the Triangle. Tex Winter and mgmt had to convince him of its merits. Im a fan of Phil taking a different approach to coaching than some of his other contemporaries. It obviously had a positive impact. For all the Zen talk, his back handed comments about players past and present, comments about teams which are actually contending, contributes nothing towards creating a positive atmosphere and changing the culture IMO.

Phil is learning on the job, is picking things up at a nice clip, made what look to be great picks, and some nice signings. Dont want to leave the impression that I believe he's doing a bad job overall. Looks like he is making smart personnel decisions for the most part right now, thats what matters more than anything.

Phil wasn't resistant to the Triangle. He was open to learning about it as he always was a believer in system basketball and team oriented play. Once he spent time with Tex and came to understand the system he was accepting of it.

“Nobody ever picked Tex’s brain like Phil did, and the results spoke for themselves,” Krause said in a telephone interview hours after Jackson’s storied career ended

Krause had a feeling about Jackson. He thought his size would be an asset in relating to players, loved how he revered his old Knicks coach, Red Holzman, and cultivated relationships with the Bulls’ veteran assistants, Johnny Bach and especially Winter.

In 1989, he replaced Collins with Jackson, who installed Winter’s beloved triangle, emphasizing body and ball movement and putting a skeptical Jordan in better positions on the floor to shoot.

“People always said that I pressured Phil into doing it,” Krause said. “But that never happened. That was all Phil. He knew for himself what the triangle could do for Michael and he got Michael to buy into it. And that was why Phil succeeded — like Red Auerbach, he had a knack for getting great players to play.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/10/sports/basketball/10araton.html?_r=1

holfresh wrote:I can't see buying into Phil's schtick about trust when he tosses everyone he can under the bus to explain his decision making...

He's an equal opportunity under the bus thrower. Jordan, Kobe, Shaq be damned.

The old adage from "A League of Their Own" applies here. There's no crying in basketball as well.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Phil went kicking and screaming into the Triangle. Tex Winter and mgmt had to convince him of its merits. Im a fan of Phil taking a different approach to coaching than some of his other contemporaries. It obviously had a positive impact. For all the Zen talk, his back handed comments about players past and present, comments about teams which are actually contending, contributes nothing towards creating a positive atmosphere and changing the culture IMO.

Phil is learning on the job, is picking things up at a nice clip, made what look to be great picks, and some nice signings. Dont want to leave the impression that I believe he's doing a bad job overall. Looks like he is making smart personnel decisions for the most part right now, thats what matters more than anything.

Phil wasn't resistant to the Triangle. He was open to learning about it as he always was a believer in system basketball and team oriented play. Once he spent time with Tex and came to understand the system he was accepting of it.

“Nobody ever picked Tex’s brain like Phil did, and the results spoke for themselves,” Krause said in a telephone interview hours after Jackson’s storied career ended

Krause had a feeling about Jackson. He thought his size would be an asset in relating to players, loved how he revered his old Knicks coach, Red Holzman, and cultivated relationships with the Bulls’ veteran assistants, Johnny Bach and especially Winter.

In 1989, he replaced Collins with Jackson, who installed Winter’s beloved triangle, emphasizing body and ball movement and putting a skeptical Jordan in better positions on the floor to shoot.

“People always said that I pressured Phil into doing it,” Krause said. “But that never happened. That was all Phil. He knew for himself what the triangle could do for Michael and he got Michael to buy into it. And that was why Phil succeeded — like Red Auerbach, he had a knack for getting great players to play.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/10/sports/basketball/10araton.html?_r=1

On that point, I stand corrected.

ChuckBuck wrote:Jackson on Bryant training harder than Jordan ever did:

Q: Is Kobe Bryant the model for Carmelo Anthony?

A: No. No one can approach that. I don’t expect anybody to be able to model their behavior after that, although Kobe modeled his behavior a lot about Michael Jordan, but he went beyond Michael in his attitude towards training, and I know Mike would probably question me saying that, but he did.

Jackson on Shaq lack of work ethic in training as well as his off the court personality and endeavors:

“Shaq didn’t work at it,” Jackson said. “Michael was able to succeed despite all kinds of limitations in his game. He couldn’t hit an outside shot. He couldn’t defend. But all of that went away because of his work ethic. Kobe saw that as a pinnacle that he had to reach, and he took it to a whole new level.”

After winning three straight titles with the Los Angeles Lakers from 2000 to 2002, O’Neal and Bryant had a famous falling out, and Jackson pointed to their personalities as a cause.

“Shaq had a clown role he had to play,” he said. “So that was part of the rift.”

O’Neal’s outsized personality made him one of the most popular players in the NBA, but it clashed with Bryant’s serious-minded approach. In the end, Kobe won out.

No one is above reproach when it comes to Phil. Gots to have thick skin in this biz.

How is that throwing Jordan under the bus..That's a compliment to Kobe..And that not throwing Shaq under the bus either..

ChuckBuck wrote:He basically said Kobe outworks Jordan, and Shaq is a lazy clown.

Some of that commentary by Phil are puzzling..Phil said MJ couldn't play defense???..MJ was all defensive team before Phil got there..MJ was leading the league in steals before Phil got there...MJ was a much better defender than Kobe..Much better...MJ has some crazy stat like 200 steals, and 100 blocks in a season, multiple times when no other player had ever done it...