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Indiana vs New York offseason
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BRIGGS
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7/28/2015  2:45 AM
Both were armed with comparable cap space and draft picks

List
-------------Indiana added

draft

#11 Myles Turner 6-11 245
#43 Joe Young 6-2 185
#33 Rakeem Christmas 6-9 250
Glenn Robinson 6-8 225

Vets free agency
Monta Ellis 6-3 190
Jordan Hill 6-10 240
Lavoy Allen 6-9 260
Chase Budinger 6-8 225

They did some comparable stuff. Well have to see how Phil Jackson and his evaluation team did versus a team that had very similar characteristics in terms of assets
available. They didnt have the great position we did in the draft but not that far off.

RIP Crushalot😞
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EnySpree
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7/28/2015  4:28 AM
They did very well can't front. Definitely spiced up their front court
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nixluva
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7/28/2015  11:04 AM
Turner is a great pick IMO. Really like Christmas too. They want to play a more uptempo style and so their additions fit that move. I'm not sure of the mix they have and how those guys will mesh with the returning players. It looks like they should be competitive this year. Bird is expecting playoffs.

Alongside two of his newest acquisitions, Pacers president Larry Bird stood in the bowels of Bankers Life Fieldhouse on a July day talking about the NBA playoffs.

Specifically, whether the team he's assembled is capable of making it there.

"I hope it is," Bird said. "I'd be very disappointed if we didn't make the playoffs. We think we've got enough talent here to do that."

The Pacers added to that talent pool by bringing in league veterans in forwards Jordan Hill and Chase Budinger along with guard Monta Ellis.

It's the latest step for a team undergoing a philosophical change. The Pacers are looking to play faster and with more excitement. As Bird explained, he wants Indiana to average six-to-eight more points per game, bringing the Pacers up from 97 points per game last season to between 103 and 105 — which would place them among the highest scoring teams in the league.

And make no mistake about it; Bird did not go into the offseason planning to rip up his roster. He made clear that David West opting out of his contract was the catalyst for a rebuild that is quickly nearing completion.

"Everything we did this summer is because of his decision," Bird said.

With the new acquisitions, Bird thinks he has the Pacers close to what they've been for much of the past five years: one of the top teams in the Eastern Conference.

"Chase is great on the wings running a lot and Jordan is a big guy who can play around the basket," Bird said. "They're all veteran players and then you throw all of our guys in there and I think we're going to be all right."

Yet the Pacers are bracing for some defensive lapses along the way. Bird noted that you can't add scoring without making sacrifices on the other end of the floor, a notion best represented by the addition of Ellis.

The 29-year-old guard has averaged 19 points per game over his career but isn't known for doing much else.

"He's not a great defender," Bird said. "We know that, but the pluses outweigh the minuses."

Those pluses include Ellis' ability to create shots off the dribble and execute pick rolls rather seamlessly — "He can get his own without doing a lot," Bird said — and the minuses, well in Bird's terms it breaks down like this: Indiana scoring six to eight more points per game is more important than giving up an extra two or so per game.

Which is why Bird could stand there Tuesday and say the Pacers have an opportunity to make the playoffs. With all that's been made about his moves and comments this summer, to Bird it's just making sure his team adapts to an uncompromising standard.

"I don't like a lot of change, never have," Bird said. "I felt we have to get up and down the court a little bit more. I think we can do that with this group."

The one thing that I think Phil was doing is not so much about the names he picked up but rather filling roles he knows this team needs in order to work well as a group, in the way he wants the team to play. It's a very specific approach with less of a "lets see what sticks" approach. Phil has very specific needs that each player has to be able to fulfill in this system and he did a good job of filling those needs IMO. The names may not be sexy but the skills and characteristics of each player fit what he needs out of them.

CrushAlot
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7/28/2015  11:08 AM
Indiana had a great offseason and needed to reset after it became apparent that there was friction between Hibbert, West and Vogel. I like all of the players they added but hate the Pacers and Vogel.
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gunsnewing
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7/28/2015  11:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/28/2015  11:27 AM
They will miss David West dearly.

They have to hope they hit it out he park drafting Myles Turner.

Not Jordan Hill is decent but he's no David West especial in the locker room especially with younger players.

Vogel is a great coach so he will teach them fundamentals and probably get them in the playoffs but they are another star player away from seriously contending. Maybe that's Turner. Maybe Ellis has a career year and they will have enough to contend in the East.

As of right now they have a better shot at contending than then the Knicks all things considered

BRIGGS
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7/28/2015  11:25 AM
CrushAlot wrote:Indiana had a great offseason and needed to reset after it became apparent that there was friction between Hibbert, West and Vogel. I like all of the players they added but hate the Pacers and Vogel.

Vogel will have to adjust his style of play. With props to Affalo--I would consider Monta Ellis more of a legitimate #2. They didnt spend 14mm like we did on a Lopez but they have a bunch of good big guys that they kind of cumulatively put together money wise.

RIP Crushalot😞
martin
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7/28/2015  11:29 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Indiana had a great offseason and needed to reset after it became apparent that there was friction between Hibbert, West and Vogel. I like all of the players they added but hate the Pacers and Vogel.

Vogel will have to adjust his style of play. With props to Affalo--I would consider Monta Ellis more of a legitimate #2. They didnt spend 14mm like we did on a Lopez but they have a bunch of good big guys that they kind of cumulatively put together money wise.

For me, I would rather spend $13.5M on a C who is 27 than $11M on an undersized SG who is 29 (gonna be 30 in Oct). Monta relies on a lot of athleticism and it'll disappear soon. Also, how is his perimeter D?

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BRIGGS
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7/28/2015  11:31 AM
gunsnewing wrote:They will miss David West dearly.

They have to hope they hit it out he park drafting Myles Turner.

Not Jordan Hill is decent but he's no David West especial in the locker room especially with younger players.

Vogel is a great coach so he will teach them fundamentals and probably get them in the playoffs but they are another star player away from seriously contending. Maybe that's Turner

guns--here is a list of the Pacers bigs

6-10 240 Jordan Hill
6-11 245 Myles Turner
6-11 255 Ian Mahimni
6-9 260 Lavoy Allen
6-9 250 Rakeem Christmas

Very much like us in some ways maybe Robin Lopez is more of a traditional 7 footer? But I think Indiana did what they wanted to do in terms of speeding up the game and having multiple players to play full tilt.

RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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7/28/2015  11:33 AM
Monta Ellis was a smart move by them. I was sort of hoping we'd take a look at him.

I think it is fair to compare their off-seasons. I think the Knicks added better front court players overall in Lopez, O'Quinn and Porzingis. Jordan Hill has never impressed me. Turner has looked great in SL, but I think he will need some time before he can really contribute, kind of like Zinger.

The only move I think you can say the Pacers definitely handled better was acquiring Rakeem Christmas out of nowhere. That was sort of a shocking move, since the Cavs traded for him on draft night.

¿ △ ?
BRIGGS
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7/28/2015  11:34 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/28/2015  11:35 AM
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Indiana had a great offseason and needed to reset after it became apparent that there was friction between Hibbert, West and Vogel. I like all of the players they added but hate the Pacers and Vogel.

Vogel will have to adjust his style of play. With props to Affalo--I would consider Monta Ellis more of a legitimate #2. They didnt spend 14mm like we did on a Lopez but they have a bunch of good big guys that they kind of cumulatively put together money wise.

For me, I would rather spend $13.5M on a C who is 27 than $11M on an undersized SG who is 29 (gonna be 30 in Oct). Monta relies on a lot of athleticism and it'll disappear soon. Also, how is his perimeter D?

I think Monta is a mixed bag defensively. He gets his hands on a lot of balls but can also be shot over and over powered. Fans probably wont realize it but hes been in the top 5-10 in steals for years.

RIP Crushalot😞
martin
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7/28/2015  11:41 AM
crzymdups wrote:Monta Ellis was a smart move by them. I was sort of hoping we'd take a look at him.

I think it is fair to compare their off-seasons. I think the Knicks added better front court players overall in Lopez, O'Quinn and Porzingis. Jordan Hill has never impressed me. Turner has looked great in SL, but I think he will need some time before he can really contribute, kind of like Zinger.

The only move I think you can say the Pacers definitely handled better was acquiring Rakeem Christmas out of nowhere. That was sort of a shocking move, since the Cavs traded for him on draft night.

Knicks acquired Grant out of nowhere too?

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earthmansurfer
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7/28/2015  11:43 AM
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Indiana had a great offseason and needed to reset after it became apparent that there was friction between Hibbert, West and Vogel. I like all of the players they added but hate the Pacers and Vogel.

Vogel will have to adjust his style of play. With props to Affalo--I would consider Monta Ellis more of a legitimate #2. They didnt spend 14mm like we did on a Lopez but they have a bunch of good big guys that they kind of cumulatively put together money wise.

For me, I would rather spend $13.5M on a C who is 27 than $11M on an undersized SG who is 29 (gonna be 30 in Oct). Monta relies on a lot of athleticism and it'll disappear soon. Also, how is his perimeter D?

Most guards can't stop other guards. Ellis is worse than most guards defensively. In an uptempo system he is a nice player but he doesn't really bring much except the occasional steal on defense.
(For our system) I take Affalo every day of the week. We have a really nice defensive team with a lot of offensive potential going.

Indiana did well with who they picked. That said, they are revamping their way of playing. Gone is West and that real big dude. I don't see them really amounting to much through FA, they are gonna have to kill it in the draft or through trades.

We got, what many of us think, is a superstar talent in KP in the making. And Batman's Robin in Grant. We have a very solid Center in Lopez, a real team guy whose work doesn't show up in the stats. Well, it does, watch who he is playing next to get more rebounds. O'Quinn is great for the price. Excited about him. We did really really well forming a cohesive group of guys imo. And that is greater than it's parts.

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crzymdups
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7/28/2015  11:47 AM
martin wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Monta Ellis was a smart move by them. I was sort of hoping we'd take a look at him.

I think it is fair to compare their off-seasons. I think the Knicks added better front court players overall in Lopez, O'Quinn and Porzingis. Jordan Hill has never impressed me. Turner has looked great in SL, but I think he will need some time before he can really contribute, kind of like Zinger.

The only move I think you can say the Pacers definitely handled better was acquiring Rakeem Christmas out of nowhere. That was sort of a shocking move, since the Cavs traded for him on draft night.

Knicks acquired Grant out of nowhere too?

Oh heck yeah - not to mention Kyle O'Quinn. That was a shocking move.

Knicks had a very good off-season. I loved the Grant move. Loved the ROLO move. Loved O'Quinn. I'm on board with Porzingis now. I like Afflalo a lot. I'm not sure where I stand on D Williams. But overall, a very good off-season. I would've liked to bring back Shved and sign up NDour, but I think Phil did quite well. I'm happy we brought back Lance and Lou, too. Overall, I'd give the Knicks a solid B/B+, if Jerian and KP develop into very good starters or better, you might be able to call it an "A" some day.

I don't know if we are better than Indiana, but Indy had more of a base in place with Paul George, George Hill, Stuckey, etc. Though looking at it, they had almost as much roster turn over as the Knicks.

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alexs
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7/28/2015  11:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/28/2015  11:50 AM
martin wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Monta Ellis was a smart move by them. I was sort of hoping we'd take a look at him.

I think it is fair to compare their off-seasons. I think the Knicks added better front court players overall in Lopez, O'Quinn and Porzingis. Jordan Hill has never impressed me. Turner has looked great in SL, but I think he will need some time before he can really contribute, kind of like Zinger.

The only move I think you can say the Pacers definitely handled better was acquiring Rakeem Christmas out of nowhere. That was sort of a shocking move, since the Cavs traded for him on draft night.

Knicks acquired Grant out of nowhere too?


+1
WaltLongmire
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7/28/2015  12:03 PM
crzymdups wrote:Monta Ellis was a smart move by them. I was sort of hoping we'd take a look at him.

I think it is fair to compare their off-seasons. I think the Knicks added better front court players overall in Lopez, O'Quinn and Porzingis. Jordan Hill has never impressed me. Turner has looked great in SL, but I think he will need some time before he can really contribute, kind of like Zinger.

The only move I think you can say the Pacers definitely handled better was acquiring Rakeem Christmas out of nowhere. That was sort of a shocking move, since the Cavs traded for him on draft night.


Was it simply a cap/tax decision, were they unhappy with what they saw in SL, or were there other team dynamics, perhaps related to Lebron's tastes for teammates, that emerged?
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knicks1248
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7/28/2015  12:15 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Indiana had a great offseason and needed to reset after it became apparent that there was friction between Hibbert, West and Vogel. I like all of the players they added but hate the Pacers and Vogel.

Vogel will have to adjust his style of play. With props to Affalo--I would consider Monta Ellis more of a legitimate #2. They didnt spend 14mm like we did on a Lopez but they have a bunch of good big guys that they kind of cumulatively put together money wise.

watching ellis over the yrs, he's never done anything else but score, and he maybe a #2 on the offensive side but he does not make your team better over all, he's so similar to J R.

He's more of a 6th man than he is a starter.

I don't expect the pacers to make the playoffs this yr

ES
nixluva
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7/28/2015  12:16 PM
crzymdups wrote:
martin wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Monta Ellis was a smart move by them. I was sort of hoping we'd take a look at him.

I think it is fair to compare their off-seasons. I think the Knicks added better front court players overall in Lopez, O'Quinn and Porzingis. Jordan Hill has never impressed me. Turner has looked great in SL, but I think he will need some time before he can really contribute, kind of like Zinger.

The only move I think you can say the Pacers definitely handled better was acquiring Rakeem Christmas out of nowhere. That was sort of a shocking move, since the Cavs traded for him on draft night.

Knicks acquired Grant out of nowhere too?

Oh heck yeah - not to mention Kyle O'Quinn. That was a shocking move.

Knicks had a very good off-season. I loved the Grant move. Loved the ROLO move. Loved O'Quinn. I'm on board with Porzingis now. I like Afflalo a lot. I'm not sure where I stand on D Williams. But overall, a very good off-season. I would've liked to bring back Shved and sign up NDour, but I think Phil did quite well. I'm happy we brought back Lance and Lou, too. Overall, I'd give the Knicks a solid B/B+, if Jerian and KP develop into very good starters or better, you might be able to call it an "A" some day.

I don't know if we are better than Indiana, but Indy had more of a base in place with Paul George, George Hill, Stuckey, etc. Though looking at it, they had almost as much roster turn over as the Knicks.


I think the Knicks will at least be competitive with a team like the Pacers. We have a very different approach to the game but the Knicks are also looking to play faster at least with the young guys on the floor. The interesting thing will be just how much the Pacers D weakens and how much the Knicks D improves.
knicks1248
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7/28/2015  12:17 PM
martin wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Monta Ellis was a smart move by them. I was sort of hoping we'd take a look at him.

I think it is fair to compare their off-seasons. I think the Knicks added better front court players overall in Lopez, O'Quinn and Porzingis. Jordan Hill has never impressed me. Turner has looked great in SL, but I think he will need some time before he can really contribute, kind of like Zinger.

The only move I think you can say the Pacers definitely handled better was acquiring Rakeem Christmas out of nowhere. That was sort of a shocking move, since the Cavs traded for him on draft night.

Knicks acquired Grant out of nowhere too?

according to phil, the deal was on deck in the event the knicks missed out on the top 3, which they did.

ES
BRIGGS
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7/28/2015  12:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/28/2015  12:30 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Indiana had a great offseason and needed to reset after it became apparent that there was friction between Hibbert, West and Vogel. I like all of the players they added but hate the Pacers and Vogel.

Vogel will have to adjust his style of play. With props to Affalo--I would consider Monta Ellis more of a legitimate #2. They didnt spend 14mm like we did on a Lopez but they have a bunch of good big guys that they kind of cumulatively put together money wise.

watching ellis over the yrs, he's never done anything else but score, and he maybe a #2 on the offensive side but he does not make your team better over all, he's so similar to J R.

He's more of a 6th man than he is a starter.

I don't expect the pacers to make the playoffs this yr

Maybe--I think they might be under rated if things fall right. The only guy in the entire draft Id consider trading KP for would be Myles Turner. Myles Turner shouldve been a top 5 pick.

RIP Crushalot😞
nixluva
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7/28/2015  1:06 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Indiana had a great offseason and needed to reset after it became apparent that there was friction between Hibbert, West and Vogel. I like all of the players they added but hate the Pacers and Vogel.

Vogel will have to adjust his style of play. With props to Affalo--I would consider Monta Ellis more of a legitimate #2. They didnt spend 14mm like we did on a Lopez but they have a bunch of good big guys that they kind of cumulatively put together money wise.

watching ellis over the yrs, he's never done anything else but score, and he maybe a #2 on the offensive side but he does not make your team better over all, he's so similar to J R.

He's more of a 6th man than he is a starter.

I don't expect the pacers to make the playoffs this yr

Maybe--I think they might be under rated if things fall right. The only guy in the entire draft Id consider trading KP for would be Myles Turner. Myles Turner shouldve been a top 5 pick.


I like Turner but I wouldn't trade KP for him. I think KP will always have an advantage over his opponent because of his size and skill. As KP develops physically and skills wise, I think he's gonna be nearly unstoppable. When I watch him play at this stage I can tell that KP isn't fully aware that opponents can't really stop him if he just takes his time and plays big. He was rushing his shots rather than gathering himself and squaring up every time. He'll gain that confidence as he plays more at the NBA level and realizes that he's got the advantage in most matchups. Dirk has been at that level of confidence and KP needs to get to that point.

Look at the chin and shoulder height of KP and Jerian compared to the other players at their positions. Phil did a nice job in terms of increasing the team size at PG and PF/C.

Indiana vs New York offseason

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