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Nalod
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7/11/2004  4:24 PM
Everything I am reading about Boozers dealings paints him and his agent as real slimballs. 30mil more is a ton, but this guy really screwed over the Cavs. I wonder if Utah pulls its offer off the table, or reduces it knowing they can't go back to cleveland. Shame shame.

I wonder what kind of reprecussions will come over this?
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Bonn1997
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7/11/2004  6:06 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Everything I am reading about Boozers dealings paints him and his agent as real slimballs. 30mil more is a ton, but this guy really screwed over the Cavs. I wonder if Utah pulls its offer off the table, or reduces it knowing they can't go back to cleveland. Shame shame.

I wonder what kind of reprecussions will come over this?
Paxson might lose his job. GMs will be reminded that an oral agreement is useless
Nalod
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7/11/2004  8:59 PM
Gund signed off on it. The agent crossed the line big time. Utah should recind to hold up some kind of decorum.
matt
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7/11/2004  9:18 PM
I really don't think it was a bad thing. I mean, this is still a buisness and as Bonn said moral agreements are useless
raven
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7/12/2004  5:02 AM
Posted by matt:

I really don't think it was a bad thing. I mean, this is still a buisness and as Bonn said moral agreements are useless

Sorry matt, but it is hard to accept this from anybody.

Business is no jungle, and principles and morale are what makes everything hold together.

Trust is what makes business works. You give your word, and then you back it up.

Reading your post is a scary thing, matt. I don't see the way to justify how booze acted. This is not honnesty, this is not integrity. He may have signed a good contract, but he has lost every little confidence anybody ever had in him. INcluding, is ex teamates, including the new ones.

How will the jazz think about that guy ? Traitors are dangerous species. If they can betray someone for you, they can betray you for someone else.

I don't know about him, about how he's been raised. Yet, whatever the way you look at it, this is the story of a guy who fooled other people for money.
Nalod
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7/12/2004  9:01 AM
This is a good kid, solid family, a Dukie with a degree. I am shocked that this would happen and that he would be involved.

30 mil can corrupt a lot of people. Thats a 71% increase over what the Cavs could pay him.

If it is going down as they are talking about, the Cavs showed good faith and Booze screwed them. Its not like he was a free agent and the bidding starts, they let him out and he said he would show good faith.
JesseDark
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7/12/2004  9:06 AM
Don't blame Boozer for taking the money. Blame Paxson for putting him in a position where had to make a choice. The Cavilers where trying to save a buck and it cost them.
Bring back dee-fense
simrud
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7/12/2004  9:19 AM
Oh please, you guys are a bunch of hypocrites, you would all take the money. Get over it, he had his paydat, no need to get jelous now. Besides, verbal agreements are just that, agreements, not promises, thats why you sign legal contracts, and that what business is built upon. Large coroporations scam millino of dollars from the goverment in taxes, so don't kid yourelf and think that the business world is bult on "intergrity". Its built on going around laws and contrats the best way possible. Boozer played the game and won. Cavs watned to pay him less for like 4 years, have an all start player gettin paid the MLE, they got burned. So stop with the preaching.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
joec32033
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7/12/2004  9:28 AM
Let me say this… Every one of us would have taken the money… an NBA career is short with no promises or guarantees, and every one of us would have taken the money… I’d have felt guilty as hell about it, but I’d have taken the money… This week news of an offer sheet involving Cavalier restricted free agent Carlos Boozer surfaced, linking him to the Utah Jazz for 6 years and $68 million. This news came as an utter shock to the Cavalier faithful, as Carlos was shown an amazing courtesy by the Cavaliers who had zero obligation to let him out of the final $700,000 year of his deal. The Cavs took a huge leap of faith to not only secure one of their promising players, but to show everyone in the league they were serious about developing a winning team. Carlos and his agent were reported to have made “wink-wink” statements to the Cavs and owner Gordon Gund, suggesting if trust and loyalty was shown to Carlos he’d repay it in kind by signing a new contract. The Cavs smiled and obliged, only to be stabbed in the back for their courtesy. I again say, your NBA career is short, you have 8 years to make all the money you can make, and Utah’s offer is almost double… but at the same time how they achieved the release from the Cavs, and how they operated was as shady a deal as you can imagine… Carlos literally robbed a blind man (Cavs owner Gordon Gund is legally blind)… The Cavs have options, although insane, as they may seem. They could give away Zydrunas Ilgauskas for a future draft pick to a team like Charlotte or Atlanta that has cap space, and match the deal but would you really want Carlos back knowing what you know today? Has anyone explained to Carlos how bad this decision was for his endorsement opportunities? If Carlos did not want to be in Cleveland, he never should have lied to the Cavs, if he was searching for the biggest payday, he should have been honest with the Cavs, he may not have gotten paid this year, but he wouldn’t look like a back stabbing liar, and that’s how he’s being portrayed… I would have taken the money also, but I wouldn’t have done it like Carlos chose to do… It's such a shame because Carlos is a nice guy, he simply made a terrible decision.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_8973.shtml

If Boozer didn't make any promises, there is nothing wrong with it at all....DA said that This deal, if Boozer signed with the Cavs would have screwed him (he would have been paid so far under market value)...I'm sorry....like Bonn says, it's a business (in this situation)...Why release him on July 1st, not being prepared to pay him? Like DA said, he would have left like 20 or 30 mil on the table to take the Cleveland deal. On top of that did Cleveland expect no other teams to make an offer and operate on the honor code? If I owned or GM'ed a team in the Jazz position and the exactly the same situation happened, I would do the same thing the Jazz did.

Based on the article this kid is referring to, there was no deal at all...this one is all on Paxson.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 07/12/2004 09:33:16]
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djsunyc
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7/12/2004  9:40 AM
here's a better account of what happened.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=knight-boozertoryrevolvearoundiu&prov=knight&type=lgns

Boozer $tory revolve$ around 1 i$$ue

By Brian Windhorst, Beacon Journal staff writer

CLEVELAND - On a sunny afternoon on June 30, Carlos Boozer and his party walked away from a meeting at Gund Arena believing he was going to be a Cleveland Cavalier for years to come.


On the sixth floor of the arena's executive offices, team owner Gordon Gund and general manager Jim Paxson believed they were on the verge of making a deal that would satisfy everyone, a rarity in today's NBA.

But somewhere between the goodwill of that day and last Thursday morning's phone call from Boozer's agent Rob Pelinka to Paxson, those good feelings went awry. Now Boozer seems to be headed to the Utah Jazz for lots more money, and even if the Cavaliers match the $68 million offer, they still appear to have made a costly, ill-advised decision.


Here is the story of how Boozer's contract situation turned into a national circus based on interviews with people inside and outside the Cavaliers organization, NBA general managers and players, agents and news media. Boozer and wife CeCe, reached by e-mail, declined to comment, and Pelinka did not return a telephone message Saturday.


The story began last summer after Boozer's very successful rookie season. He rose from second-round draft pick status and the end of coach John Lucas' bench to average 10 points and 7.5 rebounds and was named to the NBA's All-Rookie Team. The Cavaliers and Boozer were excited about his future.


Boozer, however, was not pleased with his contract. A year earlier, in August of 2002, after being impressed with him in summer league, the Cavaliers got Pelinka and Boozer to agree to a two-year guaranteed contract with an option for a third year. This was a rare deal for a second-round pick. Such players seldom receive long-term contracts but Boozer was given $989,000 over the first two years, including a $75,000 bonus for inserting a third-year option. In the third year, Boozer's salary would be $695,000 for the 2004-05 season.


Then, with Boozer's stock on the rise and the fact that a former second-round pick named Gilbert Arenas had just received a $65 million deal after his second season, Boozer's contract suddenly didn't seem so appealing.


Boozer's agent is employed by the sports management group SFX, founded by Arn Tellem. Pelinka asked last summer if the Cavaliers would consider what it would take to let Boozer out of the contract a year early.


During the 2003-04 season, in which Boozer averaged 15.5 points and 11.4 rebounds and finished second in the voting for the NBA's Most Improved Player Award, Boozer and his agent took their contract pleas public to several newspaper reporters.


In late April, after Boozer completed his breakout season, Pelinka brought it back to the Cavaliers' attention and both sides agreed to consider it in June. The parties met twice, once before the NBA's Pre-Draft Camp and once June 30.


Meeting time


On June 30, the principals gathered around a Fortune 500-style boardroom table at Gund Arena. Pelinka had flown in from Los Angeles. He sat on one side with Carlos and CeCe, a Duke graduate who has experience working for sports management giant IMG. Owner Gordon Gund flew in from his offices in Princeton, N.J., on his private jet. He joined Paxson and members of his staff on the other side of the table.


The meeting opened with Gund telling Boozer how valuable he was to the Cavaliers' franchise and their fan base. Gund was perhaps closer to Boozer than any other Cavaliers player. To Gund, players like Boozer and center Zydrunas Ilgauskas represented the transition the organization was trying to make. Each time Gund visited the Cavaliers during the season, either in Cleveland or at road games in Boston, New Jersey, New York or Philadelphia, he spent time talking with Boozer.


Paxson informed Pelinka and the Boozers that the Cavaliers were considering letting Boozer out of the option year. That decision had to be finalized by midnight that evening. Paxson explained to them that after losing Jason Kapono in the recent expansion draft and making a trade to acquire Sasha Pavlovic, the team's payroll would be $43,434,000 next season. That would put the Cavaliers within $3 million of the salary cap, expected to be announced next week.


Paxson said that if the Cavaliers allowed Boozer to become a free agent, the only thing the team could do was offer him something referred to as the maximum "Early Bird" contract. That would be a deal starting at $5 million that would increase 12.5 percent each year for six years, making it worth around $40 million. This was not a contract offer to Boozer, just an explanation of what the Cavaliers' salary cap constraint would be.


Paxson told Boozer that the team would not make any trades or other player moves to try and get drastically under the salary cap to attempt to offer more.


And, as a part of the goodwill gesture of not picking up the option, Boozer and Pelinka would have to calm the fan base by making public statements July 1 of his intention to return to the Cavaliers.


They would not be saying they had agreed to a deal, because that would be in violation of NBA rules because it came before July 1.


Pelinka had brought a copy of the NBA's collective bargaining agreement and referred to the contract rules and read from it several times.


The Cavaliers made it clear to Boozer that as many as seven other NBA teams could offer him more money and the team was taking a risk. Gund told Boozer he didn't want him to commit to a contract that he would regret signing a few years down the road.


The Cavaliers reminded him that by picking up the $695,000 option, the team would be able to sign him to a contract larger than the $40 million deal after the 2004-05 season because they would not be under NBA salary cap restraints.


But Carlos and CeCe, who only a few days earlier were looking at expensive houses in the affluent eastern Cleveland suburb of Bratenahl, said they wanted security now. They understood there was a limit, due to the league's salary cap rules, on what the Cavaliers could offer, but they wanted to remain in Cleveland.


Then Boozer and Gund spoke to each other. As they talked, they appeared to come to a trust they both thought would eventually lead to a deal.


Caucus time


At that time, the parties broke and had separate discussions. It was a tense 10-minute period that might be remembered as one of the most crucial moments in Cavaliers history that didn't take place on a basketball court.


Gund asked Paxson if he thought the Cavaliers could trust Boozer. Paxson pointed out that Pelinka was present when the Boozers said they knew it was possible to get a larger offer than the Cavaliers could put on the table after July 1 -- but they still preferred to stay in Cleveland. At that time, Paxson and Gund agreed to allow Boozer to become a restricted free agent if that was what he wanted.


The Boozers and Pelinka came back into the room and said they indeed wanted to be let out of the contract. They knew they could not make a deal on that day, but Pelinka said he was sure he could work out a deal with Paxson after July 1. Paxson promptly left the room and went to his office, where he had prepared a "qualifying offer," which is part of the procedure in making a player a restricted free agent. Under NBA rules, all qualifying offers have to be issued before July 1.


The meeting then broke up, midnight passed, and Carlos Boozer was no longer a Cavalier.


Crunch time


On July 1, the Cavaliers stunned the NBA by revealing they had not picked up Boozer's option. Boozer and Pelinka granted interviews to the Associated Press stating their preference to re-sign with the Cavaliers. But, in retrospect, they did not

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07/12/2004 09:40:46]
martin
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7/12/2004  9:51 AM
Posted by JesseDark:

Don't blame Boozer for taking the money. Blame Paxson for putting him in a position where had to make a choice. The Cavilers where trying to save a buck and it cost them.

were the cavs really trying to save a buck? They could have not release Booz and paid him under $1M, and then kept his Bird Rights for next year. They were trying to do him a solid by releasing so that he could sign a long term deal. That deal just happened to come from a different team.
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Nalod
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7/12/2004  9:53 AM
Good arthicle.

Booze should have signed that deal with cleveland with an opt out after a year. If hurt, he got 40 mil, if he plays, then full market value.

There is the ugly side of business, but it looks like Gund was trying to take care of Booze. Big money corrupts.
CTKnicksfan
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7/12/2004  10:11 AM
The Cavs did get burned badly, and Boozer deserves whatever criticism and scorn comes from this decision. It was amazingly foolish and naive for the Cavs to let him out of his deal, but it sounds like Boozer and Gund were close and there was a level of trust there that Carlos just devastated when he took the money and ran. A shame.

joec32033
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7/12/2004  10:47 AM
A "mutual trust" is not a deal. It wasn't even a mutual trust because Gund had to ask Paxon's opinion. I do not blame Boozer at all....he wanted security, and of course he wanted money...I don't think either side expected Boozer to get a maximum offer.....Unfortunately, I blame this on Paxson alone. I mean come one, there were 3 teams (at least ATL, Denver, Utah) that needed PF's and were under the cap...this isn't counting teams like Detroit, San Antonio, or the Clips that could adjust if they got a player like Boozer. It's a gm's job to know that. Wanting to come back and saying you will come back are two totally different things. If I said to Cleveland I want security now, and say I will take the deal (which Cleveland assumed he would, he never accepted the deal) because I never figured to get a max contract....than they let me out and I get a max contract off the bat....The only thing I would do is call Cleveland back to tell them I am conidering another offer before signing. Both the agent and Paxson are at fault on the respective sides, I don't blame Boozer.
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Nalod
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7/12/2004  12:03 PM
It boils down to a morals issue. And intent.

Business at its best is based on relationships. Booze should have kept it quiet and let cleveland come back up (which it still can) than burn any bridges.

Ethics and the lines we cross justifying certain actions are not black and white. Its a lot of money, a big difference. Booze has seen the cruel side of things on both ends. Teams phuck over players all the time. Like when Miami player did not send in paperwork in time and thus his contract for 3 million was voided. His market value had dropped also. I thought Miami should have picked it up, but they did not.

Im on both sides of this. Just no clear cut answer.
TMS
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7/12/2004  12:19 PM
the first thing you learn in business dealings is to always get it in writing...until that happens, any hand shake deals are pretty worthless.

why do we even care anyway? i'm happy as hell that the Cavs are up the creek w/o a paddle now...look what happened now...they're even thinking of trading Z to us for KT & filler according to the reports...we should all be praising Boozer for what he did as Knicks fans!
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
joec32033
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7/12/2004  12:46 PM
ok...Praise be to the Booze!....


The Cleveland Cavaliers believe they had his word he'd re-sign. Carlos Boozer asserts he made no promises.


Either way, Boozer appears set to leave Cleveland for a six-year, $68 million deal with the Utah Jazz.


Whatever the reason for the differing opinions of the Cavs and Boozer, it's the free-agent forward who is hurting under the barrage of criticism for skipping out on a reported hand-shake deal.

Boozer has declined to comment on the agreement made Thursday to sign an offer sheet July 14 with the Jazz, but a source close to the 22-year-old says the blame is taking its toll on Boozer.

Blame Carlos Boozer all you want for breaking his verbal agreement, but Insider's Chad Ford points out that Cavs GM Jim Paxson gambled he could lock Boozer up long-term on the cheap and lost, big-time.

The source told The Salt Lake Tribune for Sunday's editions that Boozer has been surprised and hurt by the intensity of the negative reaction for Boozer's move.

The sentiment on Boozer in the Cleveland area is largely that he is a "backstabbing, double-crossing, money-grubbing Judas," according to the Tribune. Yet, the source told the paper that Boozer contends he did nothing wrong and had been careful not to commit or promise anything to the Cavaliers.

The discrepancy in Boozer's and the Cavs' take on the existence of a gentlemen's agreement hinges on public statements made by Boozer in an interview with The Associated Press on July 1 -- the day Boozer became a free agent when the Cavaliers did not exercise an option in his contract.

At the time, Boozer expressed an intention to re-sign in Cleveland for the team's full mid-level exception -- approximately six years and $40 million. And so, the Cavaliers say, they did not pick up the option.

"Our actions have been based upon what Carlos told us he wanted," the Cavaliers said in a statement Thursday by owner Gordon Gund and general manager Jim Paxson.

"We are both very surprised and very disappointed."

But, according to the Tribune's source, Boozer did not agree to anything -- both because of NBA rules and his own bargaining position.

"He actually pulled out the collective bargaining agreement," the source told the paper, and noted the clauses prohibiting "undisclosed agreements."

The source, who had knowledge of a June 30 meeting in which the Cavs contend Boozer verbally agreed to re-sign, told the Tribune that Boozer "did tell the Cavs that [he] wanted to be in Cleveland & but did not make a commitment or a promise."

Now, the Cavs are almost certain to lose Boozer. The Cavs have the right to match the Utah offer, but they would have to trade and/or renounce the rights to a number of players to clear enough room to do so.

And Boozer, who just a few weeks ago publicly declared his happiness in Cleveland, is reportedly expressing good feelings about his agreement with the Jazz.

The source told the Tribune that Boozer and his wife, CeCe, "are excited that [Jazz GM] Kevin O'Connor is giving them this opportunity," and look forward to moving to Utah.


The more and more I dig into this story (one reason is I loved Boozer....I would rather have his Cleveland Jersey than Lebron), the more it seems that cleveland misinterpreted what was happening.

Boozer seemed pretty set in obeying the by-laws of the NBA's guidelines....I mean when the guy pulls out the agreement and quotes the byline relating to secret agreements, you gotta believe the man is not gonna agree to anything under the table...
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raven
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7/12/2004  12:53 PM
Posted by joec32033:

I do not blame Boozer at all....he wanted security,

don't you think that 40 millions is security ?
joec32033
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7/12/2004  12:59 PM
No, but 68 mil is a hell of a nest egg.....

If someone offers me an apartment for free or a house for free, I am damn sure gonna take the house....
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tkf
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7/12/2004  1:26 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Everything I am reading about Boozers dealings paints him and his agent as real slimballs. 30mil more is a ton, but this guy really screwed over the Cavs. I wonder if Utah pulls its offer off the table, or reduces it knowing they can't go back to cleveland. Shame shame.

I wonder what kind of reprecussions will come over this?

I agree, during the summer league games last night, Mark Cuban was being interviewed and you can tell that he was very unhappy about boozers deal, Cuban said that for the longest the NBA and it players dealt upon trust, for instance all of this activity now is based on trust, I mean nash with the suns, the shaq deal, all of these are handshake deals, and cuban said that the 30 mil more boozer is getting is basically immaterial because the cavs are the one who opened the door for him to get that, had the cavs not ripped up his deal the 68 mil would not exist this year... It was not like the cavs were lowballing him, they offered him the most that they COULD offer.... Cuban said this will definately change how people do business in the league and he was not happy with it.... Boozer and his agent are both scum...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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