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Etan Thomas Full MLE w/ Bucks; Knicks should target Swift
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BigSm00th
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7/9/2004  11:18 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1837254

Wizards can still match any offer
ESPN.com news services

It seems Etan Thomas is trying to head to Milwaukee. Will the Wizards let him go?

ESPN Insider Chad Ford reported Friday afternoon that the Bucks were seriously considering offering the Wizards' big man a six-year deal for between $37 and $39 million -- roughly the full mid-level exception.

ESPN's David Aldridge reports the contract is expected to be "front-loaded," meaning Thomas would get some kind of signing bonus and first-year salary up front in the first year of the deal, theoretically making it harder for Washington to match the offer.

With the free-agent signing period beginning on Wednesday, July 14, the Wizards would have 15 days from that date to match any offer.

Wizards GM Ernie Grunfeld told Insider on Friday that while he hadn't heard of an offer to Thomas, Washington likely would match any offer.

"We really want to keep Etan," Grunfeld said. "We have the right to match an offer for him, and we want to keep him."

Thomas averaged 8.9 ppg and 6.7 rpg but is considered an undersized center at just 6-foot-9.



So this leaves Mihm, Swift (Brian Cardinal just signed with Memphis for full MLE, if they sign Swift, Memphis might not bite. Knicks need that shotblocker), Doleac, and Fizer. Any 4 would be fine.
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BigAppleStar3
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7/9/2004  11:27 PM
Kurt Thomas for Stromile Swift! :)
Bonn1997
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7/10/2004  12:27 AM
Darn; i really wanted ETan. But i'd be happy with Stro
Allanfan20
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7/10/2004  2:10 AM
With Foyle getting 40 mm, I'm surprised Etan didn't demand more than the MLE. Hopefully, for him, Washington doesn't match that. This will be a very good pick up for the Bucks.

I would love to get Swift at this point. He can play center and PF. If we get him for the MLE, does he start over Kurt Thomas? I don't know.....

C- KT/ Swift
PF- Sweetney/ Swift
SF- TT/ Penny/ DerMarr/ Ariza
SG- Houston/ Crawford
PG- Marbury/ Williams/ Crawford

That's a pretty solid lineup there. Or if we can get a guy like Dampier, that would be just as good, if not better.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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7/10/2004  8:59 AM
Is swift capable of starting at C? He's only 6'9" 230 and he's not a very smart player
BRIGGS
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7/10/2004  10:23 AM
we have no chance 0 nada zip to sign and RETAIN stromile swift. I wouldnt waist my time. I would go after Mihm right now, unless we are set with Nazr and KT as C. That leaves us small at PF and C again.
RIP Crushalot😞
s3231
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7/10/2004  10:50 AM
I think West will match any offer with Swift. What we really should do is offer Dampier the MLE at 6 years. No one has made a strong attempt at him at all and he has said in the past that he would like to play here. Plus, there are basically no teams left that can pay him big money other than Denver and Atlanta. A couple of weeks ago I thought we had no shot at Dampier but nobody is going after him hard. I think Isiah should give him the MLE at 6 years before Bird and the Pacers offer him the MLE. He is exactly what we need, a true C that can play defense.

[Edited by - s3231 on 07/10/2004 10:51:16]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Bonn1997
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7/10/2004  10:51 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

we have no chance 0 nada zip to sign and RETAIN stromile swift.
You said that about Crawford too. Do you still feel that way about Crawf or were you dead wrong?
BRIGGS
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7/10/2004  11:04 AM
i said there was no chance to get him via MLE and there wasnt no way no how nada. If the Knicks organization is set on paying Jamal 10mm a year and taking back an extra 20mm in salary-its a Bulls salary dump. Thats a whole different ball game then just signing a player. There comes a point even for the knicks where we are going to have to cut and run from exponentially increasing the budget Y-Y.
RIP Crushalot😞
Bonn1997
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7/10/2004  11:44 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

i said there was no chance to get him via MLE and there wasnt no way no how nada. If the Knicks organization is set on paying Jamal 10mm a year and taking back an extra 20mm in salary-its a Bulls salary dump. Thats a whole different ball game then just signing a player. There comes a point even for the knicks where we are going to have to cut and run from exponentially increasing the budget Y-Y.

Nice try, but you actually said there would be no chance of getting him via the MLE OR via trade. Here is exactly what you said:
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=5076&page=1
BRIGGS
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
first thing you have to do is actually get him to sign one. i think when all is said and done he will either get a knockout offer over his head from left-field or he will sign a deal perhaps a bit more than the MLE with his own club with a smaller term and or opt outs. there is not going to be any sign and trade with the Knicks and he is NOT going to be a Knick--lets put the odds at 1%
In a later message you changed it from 1% to 0%. I can't imagine how embarrassed you'll feel if the Knicks do get Jamal!
gunsnewing
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7/10/2004  11:56 AM
How about Kurt Thomasto Cleveland for Tony Battie + future 1st round pick
BRIGGS
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7/10/2004  12:15 PM
i didnt think the Bulls were in a position to dump anyone from the wing slots. if we take on 20-30mm$ thats a whole different ball game then just trading talent for talent or signing someone for an MLE. It would be obvious that the Bulls are prepping to make different acquisitions this year and next[perhaps steven jackson this year] its impossible to be a soothsayer knowing that a team wants to dump salaries. but the bulls know jamal the best, they arent a penny-pinching team and perhaps his attitude and lack of fundamental skill for that team isnt worth the money he desires----if that is the case and you have a team that will take 20mm+ off your hands --why not?

we'll have to see the deal
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BigSm00th
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7/10/2004  12:29 PM
At least offer Swift the contract and force West to match it. While that's going on, get in talks with Mihm so you have a backup plan with either Mihm or Doleac ready to sign at the end of the 14 days. I hope West has to overpay for Swift.
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BigSm00th
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7/10/2004  12:41 PM
Briggs, you wrote ". if we take on 20-30mm$ thats a whole different ball game" but if this is the deal (From the papers today):
"The Knicks likely would send Shandon Anderson and possibly Othella Harrington and Frank Williams to Chicago for Crawford and Jerome Williams and/or Eddie Robinson. Thomas tried substituting Moochie Norris for Frank Williams, but the Bulls turned it down."

The Knicks are only taking back one bad contract, and if it's Eddie Robinson, it's a year shorter than Shandon Anderson's. Doing the math, it'll most likely be Anderson, Harrington, and Williams for a re-signed Crawford starting at $5.8 to $6 million (a little more than the MLE) and JYD, who makes less next year but has a longer contract. If the Bulls give up Eddie Robinson, the Knicks will likely need to add Trybanski.

Mutumbo can't be traded, I believe he has said he will retire if he's traded to anyone but Philly, NJ, or NY, so I guess he doesn't want to move and that's why you've seen his name fall out of talks.

I'll do Anderson, Harrington, and Williams for Crawford (6 years, probably $45 million) and JYD. JYD's contract ends in 06-07 (he has a team option for the next year, which they'd probably turn down), which is the same year Shandon's ends. So that's a wash. If you don't want Crawford for Harrington (who was on the IL last year for the playoffs) and Williams (Crawford has more skills than him), than I don't know what you want.

That also opens up 1 roster spot for some of the rookies.

PG: Marbury, Norris (his deal is a bargain after watching Alston get 6 years, $30 million)
SG: Houston, Crawford
SF: TThomas, Penny
PF: Sweetney, JYD
C: KThomas, Mohammed, Mutumbo, Trybanski

So they have 12 guys under contract, and no room for the MLE, which makes sense. If Dolan is going to commit to a long-term deal and take on JYD, I doubt he has enough money to throw out for another big contract. I'd rather not overspend and save it for next year. It looks like next year's team will be:
PG: Marbury, Norris
SG: Houston, Crawford
SF: TThomas, Penny
PF: Sweetney, JYD
C: KThomas, Mohammed, Mutumbo, Trybanski
IL: Ariza, Dermarr Johnson, Andre Barret

Which is a definite upgrade over last year's squad.
#Knickstaps
Silverfuel
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7/10/2004  1:03 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

How about Kurt Thomasto Cleveland for Tony Battie + future 1st round pick
no.
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Allanfan20
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7/10/2004  1:27 PM
I would trade KT for Battie and a first round pick in a New York heartbeat. Especially now that Cleveland doesn't have Boozer. That team is probably worse than they were last year. As a result, they probably get a higher lottery pick. No way Cleveland does that trade, unless they are desperate for veteran help.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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7/10/2004  3:18 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

Briggs, you wrote ". if we take on 20-30mm$ thats a whole different ball game" but if this is the deal (From the papers today):
"The Knicks likely would send Shandon Anderson and possibly Othella Harrington and Frank Williams to Chicago for Crawford and Jerome Williams and/or Eddie Robinson. Thomas tried substituting Moochie Norris for Frank Williams, but the Bulls turned it down."

The Knicks are only taking back one bad contract, and if it's Eddie Robinson, it's a year shorter than Shandon Anderson's. Doing the math, it'll most likely be Anderson, Harrington, and Williams for a re-signed Crawford starting at $5.8 to $6 million (a little more than the MLE) and JYD, who makes less next year but has a longer contract. If the Bulls give up Eddie Robinson, the Knicks will likely need to add Trybanski.

Mutumbo can't be traded, I believe he has said he will retire if he's traded to anyone but Philly, NJ, or NY, so I guess he doesn't want to move and that's why you've seen his name fall out of talks.

I'll do Anderson, Harrington, and Williams for Crawford (6 years, probably $45 million) and JYD. JYD's contract ends in 06-07 (he has a team option for the next year, which they'd probably turn down), which is the same year Shandon's ends. So that's a wash. If you don't want Crawford for Harrington (who was on the IL last year for the playoffs) and Williams (Crawford has more skills than him), than I don't know what you want.

That also opens up 1 roster spot for some of the rookies.

PG: Marbury, Norris (his deal is a bargain after watching Alston get 6 years, $30 million)
SG: Houston, Crawford
SF: TThomas, Penny
PF: Sweetney, JYD
C: KThomas, Mohammed, Mutumbo, Trybanski

So they have 12 guys under contract, and no room for the MLE, which makes sense. If Dolan is going to commit to a long-term deal and take on JYD, I doubt he has enough money to throw out for another big contract. I'd rather not overspend and save it for next year. It looks like next year's team will be:
PG: Marbury, Norris
SG: Houston, Crawford
SF: TThomas, Penny
PF: Sweetney, JYD
C: KThomas, Mohammed, Mutumbo, Trybanski
IL: Ariza, Dermarr Johnson, Andre Barret

Which is a definite upgrade over last year's squad.
Yeah, the Knicks are taking back one slightly bad contract with E-Rob, but it's not even bad because it's short. The Knicks would be taking back zero bad long-term contracts. It really wasn't hard to picture a trade like this if you had any creativity, and it's why I was shocked to hear Briggs say there was 1% and then say 0% chance of Crawford being a Knick next year.

Regarding Mutombo: He can still be traded. If Chicago is willing to accept him just for his expiring contract rather than to play, they'll do the trade anyway. And if he won't play for them, they'll buy out his contract. If Mutombo needs to be included to make the salaries match, they still save money in the long-term by getting rid of E-Rob and JYD.
Bobby
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7/10/2004  7:35 PM
dont worry about etan thomas, ernie takes control and the zards makes
a playoff run
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
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Etan Thomas Full MLE w/ Bucks; Knicks should target Swift
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