Okafor is a good post player, but has limited range with his shot (no more then 5' away from the basket) and can't defend at 6'10"

Stein is a great defender who can affect the game immediately, but has yet to prove that he can be an asset on offense even when he is very capable.

Our needs are: defense, defense, Defense

crzymdups wrote:I am maybe Stein's biggest fan on this board (other than nixluva) and of course you take Okafor over Stein. Okafor can be a franchise center. I don't think there's any way he slips past 2.

So, you don't think Stein can be a franchise player?

By the way, I too am Stein's biggest fan

Stein hasn't proved anything on offense....He had his worse game in the semi round of the tournament. Yes..yes...I've heard it a million times.

But with that said, I wouldn't be surprised if Stein impacts an NBA team more than Ok4, over the course of their careers.

Unfortunately, you can't pass on Ok4, because his stock value @4 is too high. But even before I knew we were picking 4th, I've said this all along. You take Ok4 and look for a 2 for 1 trade.

There are too many players in the first round that would fill multiple needs. Porzingis, Turner, Grant, Payne, Kaminsky, Stein, Winslow, Mudiay....

I don't see Ok4 being one of the greats on Mount Rushmore, so why note try and get two for one..... It's the perfect position, because after 3, there are several teams that would love to have that spot and take the player they want / need.

But you are almost forced to take Ok4.....If there's no trade available, then you build around two defensively challenged players in Melo and Ok4. Hope their offense over shadows their defense.

It's a win...win

crzymdups wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I am maybe Stein's biggest fan on this board (other than nixluva) and of course you take Okafor over Stein. Okafor can be a franchise center. I don't think there's any way he slips past 2.

So, you don't think Stein can be a franchise player?

By the way, I too am Stein's biggest fan

There's a very real chance Okafor can give you 24ppg 10rpg in the NBA for the next 12 seasons. He's going to come in ready to go.

Stein can give you 12pts 12rebs 2blks 2stls and great defense. He can be a key piece on a championship team... but Okafor is a guy you can build around as a #1 option for a decade or more.

IMO we can get 90% of what Okafor does from a player like Monroe. This would allow you to have a player like WCS who doesn't have a high usage rate but would still have a great impact without the ball. What does Okafor do when he doesn't have the ball in comparison? It would be hard to find a 7'er who could give you the amazing perimeter D and help D of WCS. He allows you're team to play small ball while retaining the size and rim protection, which would be a major advantage.

Okafor is the superior talent but not necessarily the superior impact on how the team can win games. We need a defender that can help our weaker defenders while still being able to get back and protect the rim. Okafor gives you a few more scoring options but you create even more issues on D. You can of course still make it work with Okafor if you can identify a great help defender and rim protector to glue the defense together. That may be what he Knicks end up deciding.

crzymdups wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:What IF Stein was able to show his offensive touch that he demonstrated in the four minute video, would you all feel the same way about Towns and Okafor?

Stein is not the same level of offensive threat that Towns and Okafor are. It's just not close.

I would be careful with that statement. We just don't know.

Ok4 is really the only polished offensive low post big man in the draft. Towns and Stein have not proved to be a low post threat. Towns doesn't look confortable with his back to the basket.....Same with Stein. Both players are face the basket type bigs. But both have back to the basket potential. Ok4 has the advantage because thats the way he was taught from the beginning. Then he goes to Duke who builds their offensive strategy around him. So college is not a fair comparison.

In the NBA, all of that could change, depending on the teams and offensive strategies.

I feel strongly that Stein is the third best big man in this draft. But the gap between Towns/Okafor to Stein is sizeable.

I think Stein will be very very very good.

Towns and Okafor are franchise type players. There can always be injuries or tragedy or whatever... but those guys are true blue chip prospects.

nixluva wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I am maybe Stein's biggest fan on this board (other than nixluva) and of course you take Okafor over Stein. Okafor can be a franchise center. I don't think there's any way he slips past 2.

So, you don't think Stein can be a franchise player?

By the way, I too am Stein's biggest fan

There's a very real chance Okafor can give you 24ppg 10rpg in the NBA for the next 12 seasons. He's going to come in ready to go.

Stein can give you 12pts 12rebs 2blks 2stls and great defense. He can be a key piece on a championship team... but Okafor is a guy you can build around as a #1 option for a decade or more.

I agree that it seems like Okafor is the better option in a vacuum. But this team is the 28th ranked D and there's very little evidence that they can seriously improve on that with Okafor and Melo as the key players. Whereas If you take WCS you immediately improve the entire defense in addition to making the team faster as well since he as a 7'er can run the floor at the same speed as your smaller players. That speed is important on Offense and Defense, since you can get early offense but also get back on D.

IMO we can get 90% of what Okafor does from a player like Monroe. This would allow you to have a player like WCS who doesn't have a high usage rate but would still have a great impact without the ball. What does Okafor do when he doesn't have the ball in comparison? It would be hard to find a 7'er who could give you the amazing perimeter D and help D of WCS. He allows you're team to play small ball while retaining the size and rim protection, which would be a major advantage.

Okafor is the superior talent but not necessarily the superior impact on how the team can win games. We need a defender that can help our weaker defenders while still being able to get back and protect the rim. Okafor gives you a few more scoring options but you create even more issues on D. You can of course still make it work with Okafor if you can identify a great help defender and rim protector to glue the defense together. That may be what he Knicks end up deciding.

Defense is effort. Just look at how the Warriors played defense. There was no rim protector that is one of the most over hype terminology in the game.

The Warriors beat a wounded Cavs team. The Cavs weren't able to make GS pay for all that swarming. Shump and JR along with others missing wide open shots and I think it's a mistake to use the Warriors as an example that it's useless to have a PERIMETER and PAINT defender like WCS. He's not just a rim protector!!!

I mentioned nothing about the Cava series it was well known that the Warriors were one of the top defensive teams in the league and no Bogut isn't much of a rim protector.

crzymdups wrote:I look at Okafor like a smaller Shaq or maybe at worst DeMarcus Cousins - I think he'll easily be a 25ppg scorer in the post. It's just a matter of constructing a team around him that makes sense.

When you have an offensive weapon like that down low, things become a lot easier to build around. You get some quick, agile, long 3 and D guys to spread the floor, maybe an enforcer or two to play defense down low.

It's traditionally pretty easy to build around a center like Okafor.

I agree with everything....But just a minor adjustment. It's easy to build around anybody with a defined skill set.

Okafor is a low post scorer....that damanded double teams in college, so you can assume he will have similar success in the NBA. But it's not gauranteed. But it's close to a good bet he will be successful offensively.

Another defined skill set is defense....If you know Stein will be one of the best defenders in the NBA, as far as protecting the rim and guarding PnR players. Then you can build around that defined skill set. It's only difficult with guys that are all potential, without a dominating specialty.

Towns might be the clear #1 pick.....But what is his specialty? It's hard to say with such a short college resume. And in HS, he was a jump shooting guard in a big mans body. Towns is in transition right now, defining a low post skill.....But he's still in training.

You know what you get with guys like Ok4, Kaminsky, Stein as an example.....So it's easier to build around players that have a specialty skill at something. For example, Melo is a scoring maching.....So you know there is no need to add another scoring monster. Instead you can focus a little on the other parts of the game, like intangles, defense, rebounding, efficient shooters (not volume shooters - we have that in Melo...which is probably why Phil got rid of JR and Shump).