StarksEwing1 wrote:The trade exceptions always confuse me. Id love to get more picks since im big on drafting younger cheap talent

Have to take back a contract of some sort, though, but I expect this is what he is trying to do right now...I hope.

fwk00 wrote:I suggested the following;

The Travis Outlaw exception remains a dormant asset from Jackson's initial trading flurry. It's a small one but might work in two plausible scenarios;
The TO exception for Atlanta's sg John Jenkins and pick # 50 OR for Orlando's sf Mo Harkless and pick #51.
A second small exception is the Pablo Prigioni exception. The PP exception could plausibly be applied to the acquisition of Phoenix's Reggie Bullock and pick #44.
Two larger exceptions can be reasonably exercised as well though they impact the Knicks cap space a bit more.
The Iman Shumpert exception could be offered to OKC for Jeremy Lamb and #14.
Finally, the JR Smith trade exception which is much larger could be offered to Minnesota for Chase Budinger and picks #31 and #36.
ALL of the acquired players are risky acquisitions, some more than others. Yet no evaluation of the effectiveness of Phil Jackson trades will be complete until these are factored in.
Given the fiscal state of many teams, the Knicks have great opportunity to call their own plays.

Knixluva identified the following teams who will need cap relief in the coming weeks (trade ideas my own);

Charlotte - maybe a dual exception plus Calderon and Early for Stephenson and #9 in separate exchanges

Miami - maybe a dual exception plus Hardaway for McRoberts and #10 in separate exchanges

OKC - maybe a dual exception plus Hardaway and Early for Novak, Lamb and #14 in separate exchanges

Thanks- Just came across the actual numbers earlier today.

Hopefully these things can be used for some good.

Bullock was actually someone were were looking at under the previous regime.

Great if OKC would actually do that deal- doubt it.

Always thought Budinger should be better than he has been...those Minny picks would almost be like late 1st rounders in what is allegedly a deep draft.

Phil needs to charm his woman so she gives us #27 in this kind of deal.

So yeah, what's the deal with these exceptions -- if used, do they not count against the cap? Anyone know for certain? Like Walt, I would assume they don't but don't know for sure. If they don't -- between the trade exceptions and the other exceptions we may be entitled to (the low-level, mid-level, the "room exception"), does that mean our cap figure could be a hell of a lot higher than the project $27mm amount or whatever it is?

WaltLongmire wrote:These are our existing trade exceptions. This was discussed on another thread, once, but I'm not searching for it. There seemed to be some arguing about them amongst people...but that is par for the course at UK.

Any ideas on which teams we might deal with. My understanding is that we can tack on 100,000 to the trade exception, so, for instance, the JR Smith trade exception could bring us back a player making 6,082,375, or less, and with it, I would assume, a draft pick.

My Assumptions:

1) we can use it to simply take a player we might want, like we did with Shved (used Felton Exception)

2) we can use to take a player we won't take without the added pick.

3) if we use the exception for a player, that player's salary will now count against our cap, I assume.

Any ideas which teams we might try to deal with a for decent player they don't want to pay for next year because of the luxury tax or how it hurts their FA signing?

Would this be a way to pick up a late #1 (any ideas on a team), which Phil is supposedly trying to do at this time?

Just wondering.

Just for reference, this is a Denver writer trying to explain the Iggy trade exception. Got me a bit dizzy.
http://www.denverstiffs.com/2013/7/8/4506196/explaining-the-traded-player-exception-acquired-by-the-denver-nuggets

Obtained: Raymond Felton (Mavericks)
Initial amount: $3,637,073
Used: Alexey Shved ($3,282,057)
Expires: 6/25/15

Amount: $1,863,840
Obtained: Travis Outlaw (Sixers)
Expires: 10/27/15

Amount: $5,982,375
Obtained: J.R. Smith (Cavaliers)
Expires: 1/5/16

Amount: $2,616,975
Obtained: Iman Shumpert (Cavaliers)
Expires: 1/5/16

Amount: $1,662,961
Obtained: Pablo Prigioni (Rockets)
Expires: 2/19/16

I've been thinking about these trade exceptions and if and when we'd use them cause i know they all expire pretty soon but the way they can be used can get a little confusing sometimes so i hope Phil and his team can find a good way to use them before they do expire.

Finestrg wrote:Thanks for posting that, Walt. Nice job..

So yeah, what's the deal with these exceptions -- if used, do they not count against the cap? Anyone know for certain? Like Walt, I would assume they don't but don't know for sure. If they don't -- between the trade exceptions and the other exceptions we may be entitled to (the low-level, mid-level, the "room exception"), does that mean our cap figure could be a hell of a lot higher than the project $27mm amount or whatever it is?

Would not have considered their value but for the original thread started on them- might have been fwk00, but I'm not sure.

I don't know about the cap situation. They don't count against your cap simply as trade exceptions, but if you use them to take on a contract, they do. We were able to take on Shved without giving back a player of equal value even though were over the cap, I think.

Confusing stuff. Not sure how much use they are if you are already under the cap.-but who knows.

That Denver article I linked to made me dizzy.

The ideal situation, it seems to me, is that we can take on a player who is decent, but either he is not needed by the team for one reason or another, or the team wants to create cap space for FA, AND we get a pick along with him.

Might be our best way to get some extra picks. I'd like at least two more, with one of them being a late 1 or early 2. Would really love that Laker 27th pick.

Finestrg wrote:

VCoug wrote:TPEs are weird and I don't understand everything about them but here goes. First of all, they aren't worth that much in and of themselves. They rarely are used during trades and most teams in the league have some. They don't count against the cap and teams under the cap don't have TPEs; so sometime after the Finals, I'm not exactly sure when, we're going to lose all of our exceptions. They can't be used to sign free agents but they can be used to put in a claim on a waived player. Their most common use is in trades where one team sends out a TPE and another team sends back a player/players making that same salary. If it is traded, it cannot be combined with any other asset; so you can't take a player making $5M and a $5M TPE and trade them for a player making $10M.

OK, thanks for the info.. So not as valuable as we thought/hoped for. I thought it was too good to be true.

Does the beginning of the FA period coincide with when we will begin to be under the cap?

While team's can negotiate with free agents starting July 1, they can not officially sign a contract until July 8. This is known as the “July Moratorium” and is when the league reviews the revenue from the previous season and officially sets the salary cap.

This is after the draft, obviously, so using the exception before then is important if you want a pick.

The exception has an official expiration date, once we're under the cap they don;t seem to be of much use. We are over the cap now, so they do allow us to make a draft day trade where we take a player, which has a $$ value, and a pick, which does not.

I make no claims to knowing if I correct on this stuff, though.

There is a window of opportunity where they can be useful to us, though.

VCoug wrote:TPEs are weird and I don't understand everything about them but here goes. First of all, they aren't worth that much in and of themselves. They rarely are used during trades and most teams in the league have some. They don't count against the cap and teams under the cap don't have TPEs; so sometime after the Finals, I'm not exactly sure when, we're going to lose all of our exceptions. They can't be used to sign free agents but they can be used to put in a claim on a waived player. Their most common use is in trades where one team sends out a TPE and another team sends back a player/players making that same salary. If it is traded, it cannot be combined with any other asset; so you can't take a player making $5M and a $5M TPE and trade them for a player making $10M.

there's a number of ways to look at trade exceptions. Yes, it is true that they can't be combined within a single trade but they can be used in dual (presumably asymmetric trades). In other words we trade a couple of players who are useful for a player and a pick. The trade is advantageous to us and seemingly unbalanced for the other team. But reciprocally, a second trade is made using the trade exception to take on an unwanted contract from the other team that makes the trading of the pick sensible.

Also I think trade exceptions allow teams over the cap to in fact make trades that might not otherwise be possible for the team that's over the cap.

Given the players that last year's team was composed of it seems to me that a number of the risky players available with trade exceptions are no worse - with higher upsides.

Finally, yes lots of teams hold trade exceptions BUT they don't have the cap space to use them without crippling their FA positions. As mentioned before, the Knicks are one of maybe a handful of teams who could pull off one of these deals without a major hit.

EwingsGlass wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:These are our existing trade exceptions. This was discussed on another thread, once, but I'm not searching for it. There seemed to be some arguing about them amongst people...but that is par for the course at UK.

Any ideas on which teams we might deal with. My understanding is that we can tack on 100,000 to the trade exception, so, for instance, the JR Smith trade exception could bring us back a player making 6,082,375, or less, and with it, I would assume, a draft pick.

My Assumptions:

1) we can use it to simply take a player we might want, like we did with Shved (used Felton Exception)

2) we can use to take a player we won't take without the added pick.

3) if we use the exception for a player, that player's salary will now count against our cap, I assume.

Any ideas which teams we might try to deal with a for decent player they don't want to pay for next year because of the luxury tax or how it hurts their FA signing?

Would this be a way to pick up a late #1 (any ideas on a team), which Phil is supposedly trying to do at this time?

Just wondering.

Just for reference, this is a Denver writer trying to explain the Iggy trade exception. Got me a bit dizzy.
http://www.denverstiffs.com/2013/7/8/4506196/explaining-the-traded-player-exception-acquired-by-the-denver-nuggets

Obtained: Raymond Felton (Mavericks)
Initial amount: $3,637,073
Used: Alexey Shved ($3,282,057)
Expires: 6/25/15

Amount: $1,863,840
Obtained: Travis Outlaw (Sixers)
Expires: 10/27/15

Amount: $5,982,375
Obtained: J.R. Smith (Cavaliers)
Expires: 1/5/16

Amount: $2,616,975
Obtained: Iman Shumpert (Cavaliers)
Expires: 1/5/16

Amount: $1,662,961
Obtained: Pablo Prigioni (Rockets)
Expires: 2/19/16

I love this draft class so much that I would forgo free agency and let other teams salary dump on us this year to get any of the pick in the 9-18 range and I would make Early, Hardaway and Galloway available for pick through the 40th pick. No hesitation. Rather than overpay in FA I am happy to grab Stephenson if it gets me a pick. Even better if they take back Calderon. I rubber stamp all those other trades you have also. Fisher needs some players that are younger than him.

Galloway, I would hold onto. We aren't winning a ring this coming year so why not grab an extra first-round pick and take on an iffy contract or two that aren't Max contracts isn't the end of the world. We've done the FA dance often enough to know the game.

fwk00 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:These are our existing trade exceptions. This was discussed on another thread, once, but I'm not searching for it. There seemed to be some arguing about them amongst people...but that is par for the course at UK.

Any ideas on which teams we might deal with. My understanding is that we can tack on 100,000 to the trade exception, so, for instance, the JR Smith trade exception could bring us back a player making 6,082,375, or less, and with it, I would assume, a draft pick.

My Assumptions:

1) we can use it to simply take a player we might want, like we did with Shved (used Felton Exception)

2) we can use to take a player we won't take without the added pick.

3) if we use the exception for a player, that player's salary will now count against our cap, I assume.

Any ideas which teams we might try to deal with a for decent player they don't want to pay for next year because of the luxury tax or how it hurts their FA signing?

Would this be a way to pick up a late #1 (any ideas on a team), which Phil is supposedly trying to do at this time?

Just wondering.

Just for reference, this is a Denver writer trying to explain the Iggy trade exception. Got me a bit dizzy.
http://www.denverstiffs.com/2013/7/8/4506196/explaining-the-traded-player-exception-acquired-by-the-denver-nuggets

Obtained: Raymond Felton (Mavericks)
Initial amount: $3,637,073
Used: Alexey Shved ($3,282,057)
Expires: 6/25/15

Amount: $1,863,840
Obtained: Travis Outlaw (Sixers)
Expires: 10/27/15

Amount: $5,982,375
Obtained: J.R. Smith (Cavaliers)
Expires: 1/5/16

Amount: $2,616,975
Obtained: Iman Shumpert (Cavaliers)
Expires: 1/5/16

Amount: $1,662,961
Obtained: Pablo Prigioni (Rockets)
Expires: 2/19/16

I love this draft class so much that I would forgo free agency and let other teams salary dump on us this year to get any of the pick in the 9-18 range and I would make Early, Hardaway and Galloway available for pick through the 40th pick. No hesitation. Rather than overpay in FA I am happy to grab Stephenson if it gets me a pick. Even better if they take back Calderon. I rubber stamp all those other trades you have also. Fisher needs some players that are younger than him.

Galloway, I would hold onto. We aren't winning a ring this coming year so why not grab an extra first-round pick and take on an iffy contract or two that aren't Max contracts isn't the end of the world. We've done the FA dance often enough to know the game.

Cause his Contract will peak before you want it to. get best value, imo