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OT:Tristan vs. Draymond: The Mismatch That’s Defining the NBA Finals..
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holfresh
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6/11/2015  10:04 AM
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/tristan-vs-draymond-the-mismatch-thats-defining-the-nba-finals/

We’re three games into the NBA Finals, and everything is upside down. The whole world told us to get ready for a veritable repeat of Spurs-Heat, but this is more Heat-Mavericks. The Warriors look frozen and lost. The Cavs are wreaking havoc with killer defense and one great player making history on offense, and though it seems to be working to perfection, it doesn’t quite seem real. Is LeBron seriously averaging 41 points, 12 boards, and eight assists in 47 minutes a game? Is this real life? Is Matthew Dellavedova a real person? When did the NBA Finals turn into fan fiction?

This series is great because it’s completely baffling. But if you’re trying to understand how we got here, go back to the 2011 Heat-Mavs Finals.

In that series, we watched one of the most incredible upsets the NBA has ever seen, and it came with a performance that changed one superstar’s legacy forever. But as much as anything Dirk Nowitzki did, the reason the Mavs had a chance was because Shawn Marion and Tyson Chandler were everywhere, disrupting everything.

That’s what Tristan Thompson is doing for the Cavs. He’s making the Warriors just vulnerable enough for LeBron to kill them.

Thompson’s offense reminds me of Charles Barkley’s quote about DeAndre Jordan — “If you left DeAndre Jordan in the gym all night and told him he couldn’t dunk, he’d have six points in the morning” — but that’s besides the point. He dominates all the little battles that the Cavs are currently winning.

On defense, he and Timofey Mozgov have made the Warriors look hopeless at the rim, and Thompson has been quick enough to hang with Golden State’s guards when he’s switched onto them off picks. On offense, he’s crashing the boards, and he’s been so good that it’s forcing the Warriors to keep rebounders close to the rim instead of leaking out for fast breaks. It’s destroying that “pace” piece of the pace-and-space juggernaut we saw in Golden State all year.

Thompson is averaging 14 boards a game in these Finals, and even that number feels misleading. Just watch him for a few minutes at a time. There’s almost no missed shot that he doesn’t get his hands on, and as big as he is, he’s also quick enough to throw his body all over the court to create loose balls. It adds a high-percentage security blanket to an offense full of low-percentage shots. If LeBron is the wrecking ball, Thompson is the chain allowing him to swing over and over again.

So … what if we spent the entire season worshiping the wrong restricted free agent power forward?

That’s the subplot that’s shaping these games. Thompson has been invaluable for the Cavs, while Draymond Green has been mostly invisible for the Warriors.

2015 NBA Finals - Game ThreeNoah Graham/NBAE via Getty Images

After Game 3, it was reported that Dray been battling a sore back after a fall in Game 2, so that’s a partial explanation. But it may not be all of it. Draymond struggled in Game 1 too. He’s been getting abused on the boards, which was expected, but he’s also been rushing things on offense and missing shots from all over the court. You know how people look at the Warriors lineup and say you have to pick your poison? So far, Draymond is the Cavs’ choice.

Through three games, he’s shooting 27 percent from the field, and he’s 1-for-8 from 3. These would be horrible numbers for any starter, but it hurts twice as much for the Warriors.

Just yesterday, half of Zach Lowe’s column on the Kevin Love trade talks last summer was dedicated to Golden State personnel expressing satisfaction with their decision to go with Draymond instead. “He didn’t just fill the power forward position,” GM Bob Myers told Zach. “He overfilled it.”

If you look at how the Warriors went from a good sixth seed to the team that spent most of this season with the league’s top-ranked defense AND its top-ranked offense, the conversation starts with Green, not Golden State’s new coach, and not even its MVP. It was Draymond who created the flexibility that made them terrifying on both ends of the court.

His ability to shoot and make plays allowed them to play fast and space the floor. His passing and penetration meant they could run the offense through their big men, letting Steph Curry and Klay Thompson spend a lot of time playing off the ball. On defense, his quickness allowed the Warriors to play an aggressive switching style that created turnovers, which led to fast breaks and more easy points. In general, he gave the whole team an edge that hadn’t been there before.

Right now, that edge is gone.

Draymond’s shooting is off, and he’s rushing his playmaking, which contributes to how lost Golden State looks on offense. On defense, the Cavs are pounding the ball with isos, making Golden State’s aggressive switching — and Draymond’s signature skill — more or less irrelevant. Hurt or not, Game 3 was the first time all year that playing David Lee felt like a smarter alternative.

2015 NBA Finals - Game OneNoah Graham/NBAE via Getty Images

I’ve been shamelessly in the tank for Draymond all year long. Until a month ago, I hadn’t thought of Tristan Thompson since I’d laughed at the Cavs for taking him in the top five in the 2011 draft. But here we are. Add this to the list of baffling Finals developments. Green and Thompson aren’t even guarding each other most of the time, but there’s no question who’s making a bigger impact.

What if Thompson is just the better player? What if it turns out that height still matters in the NBA? What if this series is exposing Draymond’s limits?

These are the two most critical role players for either team, and while one struggles like we’ve never really seen before, the other is out here channeling the ghost of Ben Wallace every night. This isn’t over, obviously. It’s dangerous to count out Green, who’s spent his career rising to the occasion and proving people wrong. That’s one reason Warriors fans should feel some hope. But until then, if you want to know why it looks like the Cavs have been dictating terms in these games, start with Tristan Thompson.

AUTOADVERT
crzymdups
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6/11/2015  10:34 AM
holfresh wrote:

In that series, we watched one of the most incredible upsets the NBA has ever seen, and it came with a performance that changed one superstar’s legacy forever. But as much as anything Dirk Nowitzki did, the reason the Mavs had a chance was because Shawn Marion and Tyson Chandler were everywhere, disrupting everything.

That’s what Tristan Thompson is doing for the Cavs. He’s making the Warriors just vulnerable enough for LeBron to kill them.

Thompson’s offense reminds me of Charles Barkley’s quote about DeAndre Jordan — “If you left DeAndre Jordan in the gym all night and told him he couldn’t dunk, he’d have six points in the morning” — but that’s besides the point. He dominates all the little battles that the Cavs are currently winning.

On defense, he and Timofey Mozgov have made the Warriors look hopeless at the rim, and Thompson has been quick enough to hang with Golden State’s guards when he’s switched onto them off picks. On offense, he’s crashing the boards, and he’s been so good that it’s forcing the Warriors to keep rebounders close to the rim instead of leaking out for fast breaks. It’s destroying that “pace” piece of the pace-and-space juggernaut we saw in Golden State all year.

Thompson is averaging 14 boards a game in these Finals, and even that number feels misleading. Just watch him for a few minutes at a time. There’s almost no missed shot that he doesn’t get his hands on, and as big as he is, he’s also quick enough to throw his body all over the court to create loose balls. It adds a high-percentage security blanket to an offense full of low-percentage shots. If LeBron is the wrecking ball, Thompson is the chain allowing him to swing over and over again.


(pssssst.... Willie Cauley-Stein)

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holfresh
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6/11/2015  11:19 AM
Seems like the Oakley type PF making a comeback after being written off...
GustavBahler
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6/11/2015  11:24 AM
"Hurt or not" is pretty flip when you're dealing with back problems. I know from experience that it can take you out of your game, rob you of your mobility.
SupremeCommander
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6/11/2015  11:38 AM
holfresh wrote:Seems like the Oakley type PF making a comeback after being written off...

what goes in and out of fashion has a lot to do with rock, paper, scissors... the Oakley type of PF is a great matchup against the stretch fours

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
holfresh
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6/11/2015  1:34 PM
My contention has always been that if a team had a big man who can post, which is essentially what LeBron is doing, they would give these smaller teams all they can handle...
WaltLongmire
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6/11/2015  2:00 PM
Thompson is under 6'8" without shoes. He is not a great perimeter defender, from what I have seen, by the way, and he is not the greatest interior defender, either. For a 4 year player (pretty sure its 4), he has seemingly made no improvements on his offensive game, which amazes me to no end.

He"s a ballhawk, and a banger down low, no doubt, but he is really benefitting from GS have no true PF on the floor for the most part.

Green(more of a rugged 3, than a 4) and Barnes (a good times performer) have been exposed as glorified role players up to this point, and the Cavs are daring them to do something with the ball while they go gangster on Curry and Thompson. Bogut is a shell of what he once was...too slow to get a rebound not near him.

The game is always about match-ups, and Thompson is benefiting from them.

James will get him his money come contract time, but Thompson is not someone I would look at seriously come contract time, if that is what some are hinting at.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
holfresh
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6/11/2015  2:05 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:Thompson is under 6'8" without shoes. He is not a great perimeter defender, from what I have seen, by the way, and he is not the greatest interior defender, either. For a 4 year player (pretty sure its 4), he has seemingly made no improvements on his offensive game, which amazes me to no end.

He"s a ballhawk, and a banger down low, no doubt, but he is really benefitting from GS have no true PF on the floor for the most part.

Green(more of a rugged 3, than a 4) and Barnes (a good times performer) have been exposed as glorified role players up to this point, and the Cavs are daring them to do something with the ball while they go gangster on Curry and Thompson. Bogut is a shell of what he once was...too slow to get a rebound not near him.

The game is always about match-ups, and Thompson is benefiting from them.

James will get him his money come contract time, but Thompson is not someone I would look at seriously come contract time, if that is what some are hinting at.

I think you are underselling his contributions a bit..He destroyed Atlanta's front line...

WaltLongmire
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6/11/2015  4:10 PM
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Thompson is under 6'8" without shoes. He is not a great perimeter defender, from what I have seen, by the way, and he is not the greatest interior defender, either. For a 4 year player (pretty sure its 4), he has seemingly made no improvements on his offensive game, which amazes me to no end.

He"s a ballhawk, and a banger down low, no doubt, but he is really benefitting from GS have no true PF on the floor for the most part.

Green(more of a rugged 3, than a 4) and Barnes (a good times performer) have been exposed as glorified role players up to this point, and the Cavs are daring them to do something with the ball while they go gangster on Curry and Thompson. Bogut is a shell of what he once was...too slow to get a rebound not near him.

The game is always about match-ups, and Thompson is benefiting from them.

James will get him his money come contract time, but Thompson is not someone I would look at seriously come contract time, if that is what some are hinting at.

I think you are underselling his contributions a bit..He destroyed Atlanta's front line...


I was actually going to mention the Hawks. They were pegged as too small by some during the season.

Tristan Thompson- 6'7.5"- w/o shoes


PF- Paul Millsap- 6'6.25" w/o shoes...

C- Al Horford- 6'8.75" w/o shoes

SF- DeMarre Carroll- 6'6.25 w/o shoes


They were banged up, looked scared, and a shell of what they had been during the season. They were also tiny beyond comprehension.


He's a tough kid, a ballhawk, and willing to mix it up. Does not look like he got stronger or worked on his shooting skills since he was drafted.


Feel good that he's performing well on the big stage, but some folks are overrating him, and there is no way he deserves a Max contract.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
crzymdups
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6/11/2015  4:34 PM
Yeah, imagine if Thompson had to guard Kaminsky. Series over.
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holfresh
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6/11/2015  4:50 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Thompson is under 6'8" without shoes. He is not a great perimeter defender, from what I have seen, by the way, and he is not the greatest interior defender, either. For a 4 year player (pretty sure its 4), he has seemingly made no improvements on his offensive game, which amazes me to no end.

He"s a ballhawk, and a banger down low, no doubt, but he is really benefitting from GS have no true PF on the floor for the most part.

Green(more of a rugged 3, than a 4) and Barnes (a good times performer) have been exposed as glorified role players up to this point, and the Cavs are daring them to do something with the ball while they go gangster on Curry and Thompson. Bogut is a shell of what he once was...too slow to get a rebound not near him.

The game is always about match-ups, and Thompson is benefiting from them.

James will get him his money come contract time, but Thompson is not someone I would look at seriously come contract time, if that is what some are hinting at.

I think you are underselling his contributions a bit..He destroyed Atlanta's front line...


I was actually going to mention the Hawks. They were pegged as too small by some during the season.

Tristan Thompson- 6'7.5"- w/o shoes


PF- Paul Millsap- 6'6.25" w/o shoes...

C- Al Horford- 6'8.75" w/o shoes

SF- DeMarre Carroll- 6'6.25 w/o shoes


They were banged up, looked scared, and a shell of what they had been during the season. They were also tiny beyond comprehension.


He's a tough kid, a ballhawk, and willing to mix it up. Does not look like he got stronger or worked on his shooting skills since he was drafted.


Feel good that he's performing well on the big stage, but some folks are overrating him, and there is no way he deserves a Max contract.

He has been the difference in two series..Draymond Green was the prototype that the new PF is suppose emulate..I think that has now changed...I don't think he is overrated, I think Draymond Green is overrated..I don't think Thompson is a max player either, but he deserves the credit he has been receiving..

Green and Milsap were the cats meow until they ran into Thompson..

WaltLongmire
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6/11/2015  5:25 PM
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Thompson is under 6'8" without shoes. He is not a great perimeter defender, from what I have seen, by the way, and he is not the greatest interior defender, either. For a 4 year player (pretty sure its 4), he has seemingly made no improvements on his offensive game, which amazes me to no end.

He"s a ballhawk, and a banger down low, no doubt, but he is really benefitting from GS have no true PF on the floor for the most part.

Green(more of a rugged 3, than a 4) and Barnes (a good times performer) have been exposed as glorified role players up to this point, and the Cavs are daring them to do something with the ball while they go gangster on Curry and Thompson. Bogut is a shell of what he once was...too slow to get a rebound not near him.

The game is always about match-ups, and Thompson is benefiting from them.

James will get him his money come contract time, but Thompson is not someone I would look at seriously come contract time, if that is what some are hinting at.

I think you are underselling his contributions a bit..He destroyed Atlanta's front line...


I was actually going to mention the Hawks. They were pegged as too small by some during the season.

Tristan Thompson- 6'7.5"- w/o shoes


PF- Paul Millsap- 6'6.25" w/o shoes...

C- Al Horford- 6'8.75" w/o shoes

SF- DeMarre Carroll- 6'6.25 w/o shoes


They were banged up, looked scared, and a shell of what they had been during the season. They were also tiny beyond comprehension.


He's a tough kid, a ballhawk, and willing to mix it up. Does not look like he got stronger or worked on his shooting skills since he was drafted.


Feel good that he's performing well on the big stage, but some folks are overrating him, and there is no way he deserves a Max contract.

He has been the difference in two series..Draymond Green was the prototype that the new PF is suppose emulate..I think that has now changed...I don't think he is overrated, I think Draymond Green is overrated..I don't think Thompson is a max player either, but he deserves the credit he has been receiving..

Green and Milsap were the cats meow until they ran into Thompson..


Seem to recall a guy named James putting those two in their respective places at certain points.

I give Thompson credit for what he is doing, and I know you are a big guy for D, but he is really benefiting from some small lineups the Cavs are facing with GS, and his only real job is to rebound and play some D against guys who never go in the paint and have been left alone on the outside by design.

He is a creature of the James Experience. Gives them no offense, is rarely given the ball where he might have to make a pass, does not block many shots as a PF, and does not get many steals, either.

He's a tenacious rebounder, but there has to be a reason why they drafted Bennett while they had Thompson and then traded for Love.

Against my better judgement, I'm rooting for the Cavs, so I hope he continues to do his job for them.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
NYKBocker
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6/11/2015  5:35 PM
It's not just Tristan. Mozgov is really creating havoc as well. Mozgov really protects the lane and is a great finisher.
WaltLongmire
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6/11/2015  5:47 PM
NYKBocker wrote:It's not just Tristan. Mozgov is really creating havoc as well. Mozgov really protects the lane and is a great finisher.

Yeah, did overlook him. Wish he had some better moves in the post against Bogut, but he's had little success against him, I think.

In some ways its a battle between Old School D and the New Analytics Offense.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Uptown
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6/11/2015  5:48 PM
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Thompson is under 6'8" without shoes. He is not a great perimeter defender, from what I have seen, by the way, and he is not the greatest interior defender, either. For a 4 year player (pretty sure its 4), he has seemingly made no improvements on his offensive game, which amazes me to no end.

He"s a ballhawk, and a banger down low, no doubt, but he is really benefitting from GS have no true PF on the floor for the most part.

Green(more of a rugged 3, than a 4) and Barnes (a good times performer) have been exposed as glorified role players up to this point, and the Cavs are daring them to do something with the ball while they go gangster on Curry and Thompson. Bogut is a shell of what he once was...too slow to get a rebound not near him.

The game is always about match-ups, and Thompson is benefiting from them.

James will get him his money come contract time, but Thompson is not someone I would look at seriously come contract time, if that is what some are hinting at.

I think you are underselling his contributions a bit..He destroyed Atlanta's front line...


I was actually going to mention the Hawks. They were pegged as too small by some during the season.

Tristan Thompson- 6'7.5"- w/o shoes


PF- Paul Millsap- 6'6.25" w/o shoes...

C- Al Horford- 6'8.75" w/o shoes

SF- DeMarre Carroll- 6'6.25 w/o shoes


They were banged up, looked scared, and a shell of what they had been during the season. They were also tiny beyond comprehension.


He's a tough kid, a ballhawk, and willing to mix it up. Does not look like he got stronger or worked on his shooting skills since he was drafted.


Feel good that he's performing well on the big stage, but some folks are overrating him, and there is no way he deserves a Max contract.

He has been the difference in two series..Draymond Green was the prototype that the new PF is suppose emulate..I think that has now changed...I don't think he is overrated, I think Draymond Green is overrated..I don't think Thompson is a max player either, but he deserves the credit he has been receiving..

Green and Milsap were the cats meow until they ran into Thompson..

Agreed about Green being slightly overrated. He fits GS small ball, stretch the floor style but i wouldnt go anywhere near him if I was the Knicks.

Uptown
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6/11/2015  5:50 PM
One more thing to point out is how Thompsons constant pressure on the offensive glass is keepin GS from transition ball.
crzymdups
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6/11/2015  6:25 PM
Uptown wrote:One more thing to point out is how Thompsons constant pressure on the offensive glass is keepin GS from transition ball.

This is the one tenant of the Triangle I really like - it does have a focus on offensive rebounding.

You see defense and rebounding guys like Thompson and Mozgov being such an important factor in the Finals and maybe it's a little clearer why some guys like Stein.


I'm of the opinion the Knicks aren't getting an all-star two-way player at 4. Sorry, it's just there unless you really believe in Winslow. Stein can be a really good piece of the puzzle.

You want to be able to beat the pace and space teams? Control the middle of the floor, grab offensive rebounds, smother the pick and roll, close out on shooters. Stein is elite at all these things.

He doesn't have a post game. Melo and Monroe do though. This is about building a team of complementary pieces that make each other better. You don't build a team with five all-stars. You get guys who excel at certain roles. Name one single team that had five two-way players. There really isn't one. Even GSW have Bogut in the middle.

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OT:Tristan vs. Draymond: The Mismatch That’s Defining the NBA Finals..

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