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Help me Understand why Kaminsky is destined to be so good...
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jskinny35
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6/1/2015  3:17 PM
Briggs and other Kaminsky fans/supporters

I acknowledge I haven't watched more then a few college games before the tournament... but, what is different about him compared to Bargs? They're both similar in size, length and like to face up. I realize some posters think he could be like Dirk, but couldn't he turn out just like Bargs (soft, poor defensively)? I ask this question b/c I'd rather resign Bargs for a minimum contract and choose someone else (Winslow, WCS, Euro 2 guard). Since I haven't followed him specifically, help me understand. thanks!

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BRIGGS
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6/1/2015  3:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/1/2015  3:49 PM
jskinny35 wrote:Briggs and other Kaminsky fans/supporters

I acknowledge I haven't watched more then a few college games before the tournament... but, what is different about him compared to Bargs? They're both similar in size, length and like to face up. I realize some posters think he could be like Dirk, but couldn't he turn out just like Bargs (soft, poor defensively)? I ask this question b/c I'd rather resign Bargs for a minimum contract and choose someone else (Winslow, WCS, Euro 2 guard). Since I haven't followed him specifically, help me understand. thanks!

Frank Kaminsky

I just think he'll be a good long term player for a team. He has basketball intelligence understanding of team concepts and toughness that Bargnani does not. I also think that he has what I would call fundamental upside. When they say a jack of all trades and master of none--Kaminsky is the opposite--he is master of all skills and deficient in none. I dont consider him a bad defender--Ive never seen a game where Frank plays a poor defense game. Im sure like anyone he can make poor plays from time to time or get over powered outjumped etc.. but at the core hes a worker and gives a good effort defensively.
I question if Bargs even likes basketball--dont you? And with that being said it ok to have Bargs as a one year back up if need be--he can play well hes just not consistent. I really think people will be sleeping on Frank.

And what I would want to take advantage of--and this might take 2-3 teams is a multi asset trade down. The Celtics would have to be involved imho. They have assets in the bottom of 1 this year multi draft picks next year and they have a high enough pick 16 that can be moved to 8-11.

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ramtour420
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6/1/2015  3:51 PM
He will not turn out like Bargs. Bargs biggest problem is, well he has a few. He is a bad defender, horrible rebounder and he is inconsistent at the things he knows how to do. Frank is a good rebounder( not elite, but good still), he is consistent at what he does, he is a better shot blocker, better passer and he has improved his game.
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WaltLongmire
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6/1/2015  4:03 PM
Watch Kaminsky boxing out and you have an immediate difference between him and Bargs.

Kaminsky has an effortless shot from the 3, Bargnani's is spotty, and for the most part he does not understand this weakness of his.

Kaminsky is not elite, but is a better help defender than Bargs.

I would keep Bargs on the cheap... the very cheap.

Bargs was a "Chosen One" in Italy, Kaminsky has worked his way up from obscurity and made himself into a very good prospect.

Other than skin color, which I think many look at, unfortunately, they are very different players.

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Knicks1969
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6/1/2015  4:09 PM
Kaminsky has a much better attitude for the game then Barg. He is by far a much better player
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StarksEwing1
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6/1/2015  4:16 PM
Yeah not sold on him. I think he will be a good role player off the bench
tj23
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6/1/2015  4:38 PM
He may not be the offensive force people are expecting but he isn't comparable to Bargs in any way other than being tall and white. One is a turnover machine the other one hardly ever turns it over. One has a very consistent jumper and the other is a streak shooter. I'm guessing you can assume which is which.
blkexec
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6/1/2015  4:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/1/2015  5:06 PM
Bargs WAS better than Kaminsky in his prime....he was the lead man in Toronto and he carried that team. Theres a reason why he went 1st.....and Kaminsky is projected to go 13-17.... Kaminsky is not a lead dog.....hes a roll player. Please move on to the players in range where we are picking.....Also how many Kaminsky threads is needed for a roll player.
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crzymdups
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6/1/2015  5:05 PM
I think Kaminsky projects out to be Kelly Olynyk moreso than Dirk. And Olynyk is a decent player, just not someone you want at #4 where you can typically get a guy like Chris Bosh, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, etc.
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dk7th
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6/1/2015  5:10 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/1/2015  5:16 PM
any draft pick 4-10 is often a hodgepodge of talent, skill, athleticism, intelligence, isn't it? hence it is difficult to say how a player is going to pan out. i also have a feeling that 4-10 does not guarantee a starting-caliber player. what it should mean is a solid rotation player who can play both ends of the floor, and is a positive-sum player on both sides of the ball. when you have a guy who produces alot but gives up more than he produces then there are going to be problems.

kaminsky has everything going for him to be a good player in an established system and where the level of defense is top 10. if he is forced to start on a weak defensive team, one that is not top ten, people will crap on him. that's what happens when you have a guy who is a good team defender but a-not-so-great one-on-one defender or shotblocker.

with all that said, i think the knicks should take winslow and if not winslow then kaminsky. getting both players would be a great development for this woebegone franchise.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Sangfroid
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6/1/2015  7:33 PM
Kaminsky is a defensive sieve. Not long enough, not strong enough. Better to re-sign Bargs, and use the resources elsewhere..
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holfresh
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6/1/2015  7:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/1/2015  7:56 PM
dk7th wrote:any draft pick 4-10 is often a hodgepodge of talent, skill, athleticism, intelligence, isn't it? hence it is difficult to say how a player is going to pan out. i also have a feeling that 4-10 does not guarantee a starting-caliber player. what it should mean is a solid rotation player who can play both ends of the floor, and is a positive-sum player on both sides of the ball. when you have a guy who produces alot but gives up more than he produces then there are going to be problems.

kaminsky has everything going for him to be a good player in an established system and where the level of defense is top 10. if he is forced to start on a weak defensive team, one that is not top ten, people will crap on him. that's what happens when you have a guy who is a good team defender but a-not-so-great one-on-one defender or shotblocker.

with all that said, i think the knicks should take winslow and if not winslow then kaminsky. getting both players would be a great development for this woebegone franchise.

Sometimes I think you just make it up as you go along...Hodgepodge of talent from 4-10, here are a few notables picked 4-7 since 2003..

Wade
Westbrook
Paul
Curry
Bosh
Cousins
Deng
Roy
Conley
Love
Lilliard

So in the last 11 years, you had a chance to pick at least 11 all stars( not sure about Deng, Conley should be an all star) between 4-7..

dk7th
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6/1/2015  8:18 PM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:any draft pick 4-10 is often a hodgepodge of talent, skill, athleticism, intelligence, isn't it? hence it is difficult to say how a player is going to pan out. i also have a feeling that 4-10 does not guarantee a starting-caliber player. what it should mean is a solid rotation player who can play both ends of the floor, and is a positive-sum player on both sides of the ball. when you have a guy who produces alot but gives up more than he produces then there are going to be problems.

kaminsky has everything going for him to be a good player in an established system and where the level of defense is top 10. if he is forced to start on a weak defensive team, one that is not top ten, people will crap on him. that's what happens when you have a guy who is a good team defender but a-not-so-great one-on-one defender or shotblocker.

with all that said, i think the knicks should take winslow and if not winslow then kaminsky. getting both players would be a great development for this woebegone franchise.

Sometimes I think you just make it up as you go along...Hodgepodge of talent from 4-10, here are a few notables picked 4-7 since 2003..

Wade
Westbrook
Paul
Curry
Bosh
Cousins
Deng
Roy
Conley
Love
Lilliard

So in the last 11 years, you had a chance to pick at least 11 all stars( not sure about Deng, Conley should be an all star) between 4-7..

you just proved my point. and no, i am not going to dumb it down so you can understand how.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
NumberTwoPencil
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6/2/2015  1:20 AM
In short, I believe in Kaminsky because in the games I watched, he changed his style of play to deal with problems created by the opposing team so than by the end of the game, he was, in effect, a much better player. That shows not only a range of skills but a mindset and stategy that should help him adapt quickly to the pro game. A lot of players play harder, play faster, go with what is working, and so on but relatively few players make significant adjustments to their game based on what's happening on the floor to optimize their effectiveness. Dirk does that kind of stuff in games, Olynyk is just starting to make those kinds of adjustments. Kaminsky is ahead of his peers. In short, Kaminsky's a smart player. Injuries notwithstanding, I think he'll be a successful pro with a long career.
BRIGGS
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6/2/2015  1:50 AM
NumberTwoPencil wrote:In short, I believe in Kaminsky because in the games I watched, he changed his style of play to deal with problems created by the opposing team so than by the end of the game, he was, in effect, a much better player. That shows not only a range of skills but a mindset and stategy that should help him adapt quickly to the pro game. A lot of players play harder, play faster, go with what is working, and so on but relatively few players make significant adjustments to their game based on what's happening on the floor to optimize their effectiveness. Dirk does that kind of stuff in games, Olynyk is just starting to make those kinds of adjustments. Kaminsky is ahead of his peers. In short, Kaminsky's a smart player. Injuries notwithstanding, I think he'll be a successful pro with a long career.

It really comes down to fundamentals. This guy is 7-1 and has unique fundamentals. I dont care what anyone says--if he is aggressive and he gets 15 shots a game--he has all the ability to score 20 points a night in and out--take down 8-9 rebounds and dish out 4-6 assists while blocking a shot and half.
The ONLY negative that I saw with Frank is that he came in 10 pounds lighter than I thought. This couldve been dsigned for more explosive pre draft workout results in speed jumping etc.. and at 7-1 those 10 pounds can comfortably be put back on. I think with more spaced this guy becomes more dangerous. You're right about Olynck--hes a goiod player too but he does not have the pure fundamentals that Frank has. Who the hell is guarding Frank from the 4? hes going to be able to play over the top in almost every situation in or out. Hes mobile too--hes not going to be out there being smoked on D. This guy is 2-3 years will be better than Melo at 32-33 if he is given an opportunity AND he takes it by the cahones and runs with it--he just has more tools. He had one TERRIBLE games this year that probably when he played sick against Georgetown other wise instead of 19 a game that wouldve been over 20. I think just a slight more detail to rebounding with the extra 8-9 pounds would also fit the bill. I think he needs to try and hit 9+ rebounds per 30 minutes played.

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callmened
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6/2/2015  2:36 AM
jskinny35 wrote:Briggs and other Kaminsky fans/supporters

I acknowledge I haven't watched more then a few college games before the tournament... but, what is different about him compared to Bargs? They're both similar in size, length and like to face up. I realize some posters think he could be like Dirk, but couldn't he turn out just like Bargs (soft, poor defensively)? I ask this question b/c I'd rather resign Bargs for a minimum contract and choose someone else (Winslow, WCS, Euro 2 guard). Since I haven't followed him specifically, help me understand. thanks!

Kaminisky supporter here (raises hands)

please dont put he and bargs in the same sentence. i think bargs is allergic to defending or rebounding. I dont think kaminsky is great at these but he's willing to be tough and stick is nose in there. dude has a pulse. but at the same time, lets not insult the great dirk (a 1st ballot hall of famer lol). Dirk could carry teams in his prime. im not sure kaminsky ever will. I hate making comparisons only because you dont know someone's motivation, drive, passion etc. finger-gun to my head, he reminds me of olynyk - dominant in college and solid pro; but no superstar in terms of a skill set. Superior offensive player who can shoot deep, post and drive - and average on defense/rebounding.

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
BRIGGS
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6/2/2015  3:25 AM
Kaminsky flubbed the last 5 minutes of that NC game. In fact he had 18-8 with 10 minutes left and put OK4 in FT. Maybe at the end of the game you saw what his lack of wingspan on the post kind of did--he missed two shots and then a fresh Okafor came in and got great position twice and scored 4 important points. I think Kaminsky having just played huge minutes against Kentucky was just gassed at the end. His value will end up as a face 4 and his ability to hit 3's--you might see him shooting more like 4-6 a game with 4-6 interior shots and I can see him being a 45% 3 point shooter in the NBA. That will push his eFG way up there and if he lands on Detoit hes going to have a green light--he will surprise.
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Cartman718
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6/2/2015  5:16 AM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:any draft pick 4-10 is often a hodgepodge of talent, skill, athleticism, intelligence, isn't it? hence it is difficult to say how a player is going to pan out. i also have a feeling that 4-10 does not guarantee a starting-caliber player. what it should mean is a solid rotation player who can play both ends of the floor, and is a positive-sum player on both sides of the ball. when you have a guy who produces alot but gives up more than he produces then there are going to be problems.

kaminsky has everything going for him to be a good player in an established system and where the level of defense is top 10. if he is forced to start on a weak defensive team, one that is not top ten, people will crap on him. that's what happens when you have a guy who is a good team defender but a-not-so-great one-on-one defender or shotblocker.

with all that said, i think the knicks should take winslow and if not winslow then kaminsky. getting both players would be a great development for this woebegone franchise.

Sometimes I think you just make it up as you go along...Hodgepodge of talent from 4-10, here are a few notables picked 4-7 since 2003..

Wade
Westbrook
Paul
Curry
Bosh
Cousins
Deng
Roy
Conley
Love
Lilliard

So in the last 11 years, you had a chance to pick at least 11 all stars( not sure about Deng, Conley should be an all star) between 4-7..

you just proved my point. and no, i am not going to dumb it down so you can understand how.


dk7...
"i also have a feeling that 4-10 does not guarantee a starting-caliber player." really?
i also have a feeling that this can apply to picks 1-3 as well.

So what's your point?

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rpknicks
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6/2/2015  6:10 AM
IT
Kaminsky has "it". A grounded kid with a ton of heart. No ego but no backing down either. He's a not afraid to speak his mind . Not afraid to admit when he's wrong or when he needs to do better. He makes players around him better by holding himself and them accountable. Doesn't settle. That's why teammates like him and opponents respect him. Coaches too. Fans adore him and we certainly could use someone on the knicks who finally gets the fans back involved…not just because he may bring wins, or because he's the most talented, but because he continually improves and gives you everything he's got.

While "it" is not a skill, it is a proven ability, having gone from a borderline D1 college player to national player of the year beating out 100 mcdonald's all americans in the process. He was not the coach's son, didn't have the perpetual green-light nor was he wisconsin's only option either. He fit in to the system and still managed to shine as an individual. Because his team-mates also bought in, they went to 2 straight final fours beating teams ( often by 20 to 30 points) with much more athletic talent than they did. Kentucky was at several points being tossed around in the "best college team" ever discussion. Frank and the badgers ground that notion into dust. Had they saved a bit more for duke, we're talking about a legendary team, not just a really good one.

SKILLS
On the court, the man can already shoot at at NBA level. Pair that with a very crafty ability to drive and finish or pass and opposing defenses have a problem. While he cannot post up dwight howard and deandre jordan on a nightly basis, he will do just fine against the other 90% of the league with his variety of moves and counter moves to be effective. He's a guy that is going to add to his game every year. Think of a young kevin mchale who can actually put it on the floor.

He is getting knocked for his defense because bigger guys can outmuscle him and smaller ones can get by him. True. He will probably catch a facial or two in this first month. Most of the guys in the nba have the same problem and if they don't, they either can't shoot or they are some sort of head case. Pick your poison. Kaminsky is going to have to improve in some key defensive areas but he knows at least how to play D. He is not someone who requires a lot of teaching in that department, unlike bargnani or even amare . He can get you boards and a block too, and people shouldn't be surprised when he does.

Phil: Forget monroe. Go get a defensive center and some quicker guys in the back court to cut down on penetration. Frank will do his part just fine.

FIT
Carmelo has every right to be skeptical about a pick like kaminsky. He's seen and heard it all before and frank is not going to pass the eye test like some others in this draft. But kaminsky will be able to draw big people away from the basket much more effectively than anybody melo's played with. He's going to make life very easy for melo on the block and when the double comes, frank 's going to knock it down.

More imprortanly, for restive fans who label melo a ball -stopper, take comfort that frank is not going to fall in and defer just because he's a rookie. Okafor would. Towns would. Winslow and WCS would. Mudiay would. Russell?

Frank's a rebel and he really believes in himself. Very dangerous combination. NY 's going to love him. He doesn't need a million tattoos or bleached hair to express himself either. He 's motivated by beating the system, by destroying conventions, by being himself. When he looks at Melo , he probably will see a product of that same entitled system,and another guy he has to either convince or beat.

But this guy just wants to win. At everything. Don't let the goofiness fool you. Forget the highlight videos. Go check the press conference that he and WCS, Quinn cook and Travis Trice did at the final four this year. Relaxed. Determined. Couldn't wait to kick WCS ( and the rest of the 6 nba bound wildcats) ass the next day and yet he still was able to crack jokes. Assassin.

It's right there in front of people, but they're too focused on wingspans, upside and "value" for the pick.

He's not laettner, olynck, or dirk.

He's frank.

Bonn1997
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6/2/2015  7:20 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/2/2015  8:33 AM
None of these players are guarantees. People are making guesses based on the players stats and the eye test. You're right that Kaminsky could be Bargs, or he could be Dirk. Towns could be David Robinson or Olowokandi. People are just trying to play the odds as well as possible. A lot of people here have way too much certainty in their predictions for players. With all the other lottery teams, the good news is that if the F up, they get a high lottery pick and another shot in 12 months.
Help me Understand why Kaminsky is destined to be so good...

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