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Realistically - can we get a late first rounder for THjr? Early second rounder?
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crzymdups
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5/27/2015  2:10 PM
Anyone think so? What if we add $3M to sweeten the pot? Or is his value too low at this point?
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Finestrg
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5/27/2015  2:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/27/2015  2:30 PM
I agree, Crzy. Almost every hypothetical roster I've come up with doesn't include THJ and Early. They're each still young and could definitely improve -- I just feel we could upgrade over each player with a better DL player and hopefully trade off either 1 or both guys (along with cash and even Galloway would be on the table for me) to get another player in this draft, whether it be a late 1 or an early 2nd rounder. I think that's doable. The way I see it -- Scotty Hopson and Eric Griffin would be an upgrade over THJ and Early, we save a little on the cap in the process and we hopefully bring in another player in this draft to help us. For example: Hopson & Griffin + Jordan Mickey, Rakeem Christmas, Joseph Young or say this Euro guard Danilo Fuzaro > THJ & Early.
holfresh
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5/27/2015  2:22 PM
Why do we always want to run our young players out of town without giving them the chance to grow..It doesn't happen overnight..
crzymdups
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5/27/2015  2:23 PM
I don't believe in THjr from what I've seen. He has skills, but I think he's got rocks bouncing around in his head.

I'm willing to give Early more time to develop - I think he showed positive flashes. I think he needs to adapt to the speed of the NBA.

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yellowboy90
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5/27/2015  2:23 PM
who knows maybe Shump and JR increased his value. I don't think the knicks could shop him and get a 1st but maybe a team would call the knicks and ask them what he is worth. Maybe Kerr would give the knicks the last pick for him.
crzymdups
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5/27/2015  2:24 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:who knows maybe Shump and JR increased his value. I don't think the knicks could shop him and get a 1st but maybe a team would call the knicks and ask them what he is worth. Maybe Kerr would give the knicks the last pick for him.

That's a decent point - Kerr did vote for THjr as first team all rookie? Or did he give him a rookie of the year vote or something crazy?

And I think Shump and JR may actually have increased his value a little.

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crzymdups
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5/27/2015  2:27 PM
Steve Kerr voted Tim Hardaway Jr as Rookie of the Year... was that early campaigning for the Knicks job? Or did he believe it?

http://dailyknicks.com/2014/05/05/steve-kerr-voted-tim-hardaway-jr-rookie-year/


Do people think we should keep Hardaway? Let him develop into a starter? Year 3 is when a lot of guys make the turn into a good player. What say you guys? Give him another year or try to get a number one pick for him?

Didn't he and Melo have a few screaming matches earlier this season when Melo was playing? Typically guys Melo doesn't like tend to get shipped out.

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Finestrg
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5/27/2015  2:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/27/2015  3:40 PM
holfresh wrote:Why do we always want to run our young players out of town without giving them the chance to grow..It doesn't happen overnight..

Agree with that sentiment too -- I just feel it comes down to value -- I feel Hopson (a better version of Ricky Ledo imo--a similar skilled guard at 6'7" that can score, handle and make plays), Griffin and maybe even Jarelle Benimon are better than THJ and Early, 2 guys who didn't show much at all last year in a rotten season rife with opportunity where we were all praying for anyone to step up to the plate--neither of these guys did. Sorry but I consider these DL players upgrades over the two guys we already have -- we secure these players for less money, then use THJ, Early, cash and maybe even Galloway to see if we can get another player or 2 out of this draft or maybe a pick in next years draft. Just how I see it..
H1AND1
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5/27/2015  2:27 PM
holfresh wrote:Why do we always want to run our young players out of town without giving them the chance to grow..It doesn't happen overnight..

The problem is THjr is getting worse as time goes on. Whether this is endemic to the Knicks development strategies or if THjr just isnt that good is not clear but regardless the kid isn't worth much at this point. He is a streaky, volume scorer who sucks at defending and passing and rebounding and basically everything besides hitting shots *WHEN he is hot. That doesn't have much value.
holfresh
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5/27/2015  2:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/27/2015  2:31 PM
H1AND1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Why do we always want to run our young players out of town without giving them the chance to grow..It doesn't happen overnight..

The problem is THjr is getting worse as time goes on. Whether this is endemic to the Knicks development strategies or if THjr just isnt that good is not clear but regardless the kid isn't worth much at this point. He is a streaky, volume scorer who sucks at defending and passing and rebounding and basically everything besides hitting shots *WHEN he is hot. That doesn't have much value.

No, the triangle screwed everyone up...They stopped fully implementing it when the kids took over..Tim Jr was going to the hole and looked like a different player after he returned from injury..It cost us nothing to keep him around..Lets do something different for a change, leave our kids alone...Doesn't watching Shump hurt enough???
BigDaddyG
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5/27/2015  2:31 PM
I'm not sure if any of these D-League wonders would better than THJ or Early, but I'm all for bringing them into summer league and camp to battle it out.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
FistOfOakley
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5/27/2015  2:33 PM
watching shump and jr doesn't hurt me in the slightest... none of what they are doing was going to happen here... for one.. we don't have lbj and not going to the finals...

thjr should be shipped out ... i'll take 2nd's... GS's pick in the 1st rd might also be up for grabs...
crzymdups
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5/27/2015  2:33 PM
holfresh wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Why do we always want to run our young players out of town without giving them the chance to grow..It doesn't happen overnight..

The problem is THjr is getting worse as time goes on. Whether this is endemic to the Knicks development strategies or if THjr just isnt that good is not clear but regardless the kid isn't worth much at this point. He is a streaky, volume scorer who sucks at defending and passing and rebounding and basically everything besides hitting shots *WHEN he is hot. That doesn't have much value.

No, the triangle screwed everyone up...They stopped fully implementing it when the kids took over..Tim Jr was going to the hole and looked like a different player after he returned from injury..It cost us nothing to keep him around..Lets do something different for a change, leave our kids alone...Doesn't watching Shump hurt enough???

Shump hurts more because he's actually a good player and I liked him. He seemed like a winner from day one. THjr does not.

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holfresh
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5/27/2015  2:47 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:watching shump and jr doesn't hurt me in the slightest... none of what they are doing was going to happen here... for one.. we don't have lbj and not going to the finals...

thjr should be shipped out ... i'll take 2nd's... GS's pick in the 1st rd might also be up for grabs...

JR won sixth man here...Shump was hurt a few years so we basically gave up on him...
WaltLongmire
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5/27/2015  3:04 PM
I always expect the son of a PG to have a higher BB IQ...to be one of those savvy players who, even if they are not superior athletes, do the right thing at the right time, especially the little things.

Hardaway is simply not this type of player. He's a role player at this time, a gunner who you keep in a game if his shot is on, and sit on the bench if it is an off day shooting, because he does little else to help a team.

I think he, like Smith, would have had more success being with James if he had been the one sent to the Cavs.

I still think he deserves another year, but if we could get a #1 in the 20's I would have to make that deal.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
smackeddog
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5/27/2015  3:06 PM
holfresh wrote:Why do we always want to run our young players out of town without giving them the chance to grow..It doesn't happen overnight..

So we can complain when they perform well on another team
crzymdups
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5/27/2015  3:08 PM
smackeddog wrote:
holfresh wrote:Why do we always want to run our young players out of town without giving them the chance to grow..It doesn't happen overnight..

So we can complain when they perform well on another team

I was highly, vocally against trading Shumpert. I knew it was going to happen, but I always thought it'd be a mistake. I was against trading Ariza. I hated that move. It's not about giving up too early on young guys - it's about making the right trades and getting value for assets. Like how the Mavs are trying to get DEANDRE JORDAN for Tyson Chandler instead of Jose Calderon.

Anyway. Whatever.

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smackeddog
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5/27/2015  3:23 PM
crzymdups wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
holfresh wrote:Why do we always want to run our young players out of town without giving them the chance to grow..It doesn't happen overnight..

So we can complain when they perform well on another team

I was highly, vocally against trading Shumpert. I knew it was going to happen, but I always thought it'd be a mistake. I was against trading Ariza. I hated that move. It's not about giving up too early on young guys - it's about making the right trades and getting value for assets. Like how the Mavs are trying to get DEANDRE JORDAN for Tyson Chandler instead of Jose Calderon.

Anyway. Whatever.

Everyone hated the ariza trade!
holfresh
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5/27/2015  3:37 PM
crzymdups wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
holfresh wrote:Why do we always want to run our young players out of town without giving them the chance to grow..It doesn't happen overnight..

So we can complain when they perform well on another team

I was highly, vocally against trading Shumpert. I knew it was going to happen, but I always thought it'd be a mistake. I was against trading Ariza. I hated that move. It's not about giving up too early on young guys - it's about making the right trades and getting value for assets. Like how the Mavs are trying to get DEANDRE JORDAN for Tyson Chandler instead of Jose Calderon.

Anyway. Whatever.

But you are trying to line up Tim Jr for a trade...
crzymdups
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5/27/2015  3:41 PM
holfresh wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
holfresh wrote:Why do we always want to run our young players out of town without giving them the chance to grow..It doesn't happen overnight..

So we can complain when they perform well on another team

I was highly, vocally against trading Shumpert. I knew it was going to happen, but I always thought it'd be a mistake. I was against trading Ariza. I hated that move. It's not about giving up too early on young guys - it's about making the right trades and getting value for assets. Like how the Mavs are trying to get DEANDRE JORDAN for Tyson Chandler instead of Jose Calderon.

Anyway. Whatever.

But you are trying to line up Tim Jr for a trade...

All players are not created equal.

I would have kept Tyson and Shump.

I don't have much faith in Timmy.

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Realistically - can we get a late first rounder for THjr? Early second rounder?
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