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Pick your #4
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Hamo49
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5/25/2015  12:35 AM
Let's just assume that draft night goes
1.Towns
2.Okafor
3.Russell

Then who would you pick at #4 and why...
(Assuming it's pretty much unanimous that if one of those top 3 slide to us at 4 we would take them, no questions asked)

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Hamo49
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5/25/2015  12:40 AM
after reading all the discussions on potential picks...
I would go for Mudiay, the lure of having a potential star at PG is enough for me.
BRIGGS
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5/25/2015  1:27 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/25/2015  1:46 AM
I said it in a post

1A.Porzingis--reasoning why? He might have the most diverse potential in the draft and he's 7-2

1B Kaminsky--He might be the next Dirk or close to it. His 42% 3 point shooting for a 7-1 guy who can handle the ball like a guard who is mobile who is a great passer solid rebounder. Hes a better basketball player than Porzingis right now but Porzingis can help now(and needs to be deemed healthy by MDs in terms of his body type--that he will be able to put on 20 pounds naturally)) and has variables that can potentially be seen higher than Kaminsly--manly from his incredible extension and potential on defense.

2a Winslow--Hes right there but the big to me for this team on the basis that everything is close has a an advantage.


Have very little interest in the PG's although I concede both could be very good to great. I really like that Brazillian PG Fuzaro. Looking at his stats in what looks to be a league that is above CBB he avg 9 points 2 rebounds 2 assists shooting 57% from the field and 42% from 3 while rarely turning the ball over and was one of the best defenders in the league. He is highly athletic with good size and ambidextrous. If he can be had around 25 or so--I think his value there champions a player taken at 4. Take the big at 4 leave the PG to later. Russell lacks athleticism Mudiay lacks shooting--if they were combined they'd likely go 1 but they're not.

For 3 and D I think Pat Connaughton has been very over looked. Hes not listed in either mock but I think its possible he could slip into late rd 1. He's been a prolific 3 point shooter with good size 6-5 220 hes a great rebounder solid defender good passer with a powerful athletic body. If not I think the Knicks should really look into buying a second round pick and although we have some guards there are many ??? with those guards. And while PJ might not believe in 3 and D--Pat gives you more than that hes explosive to the rim and hes a very good rebounder. This is where a team finds a new improved Danny Green for 500k for the next 3 years and some DUMB team gives the real one 10mm.

I think this is sound startegts IF we can find a pick later in rd 1 and a reasonable 2. With Porzingis I have no need for Mickey anymore--I can fully concentrate on guards.

One caveat post draft--Id be willing to bring in Joshua Smith to Westchester to see if hed be willing to lose 60-70 pounds. He is very nimble and athletic for his size--he can play but he needs to lose the weight. Getting him to Westchester would be a great place to see if we can convince him into taking a smart approach to his body. I think a big reward is out there for team willing to work with him if he brings the ethic with him. No contract etc.. just an avenue on our SL team and to hook him up with pro trainers and nutritionists to se if we can work it. If not he had no cost anyway.

RIP Crushalot😞
CrushAlot
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5/25/2015  2:08 AM
Mudiay or Porzingis. I have to wonder if the Lakers take Russell though. If they do Okafor might be there or available from the Sixers in a trade for the 4th pick.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
smackeddog
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5/25/2015  3:34 AM
CrushAlot wrote:Mudiay or Porzingis. I have to wonder if the Lakers take Russell though. If they do Okafor might be there or available from the Sixers in a trade for the 4th pick.

If the 76ers get OK4, they will trade Embiid- they've been trying to get rid of him since the trade deadline (questions over his recovery, his work ethic etc)- plus OK4 is a much better fir next to Noels.

crzymdups
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5/25/2015  3:36 AM
I would take Mudiay.

The Knicks will take Winslow.

¿ △ ?
smackeddog
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5/25/2015  3:36 AM
I like Winslow a lot- only thing that makes me reluctant to draft him is that you can essentially sign a player like him in Carroll, so maybe it's better to use the pick on a position you can't really fill with free agency. We're in a very tough place- do we go for potential, the unknown or a certain role player?
franco12
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5/25/2015  8:06 AM
Mudiay until work outs bring out additional intel on where players stack.
blkexec
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5/25/2015  8:18 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/25/2015  8:20 AM
Porzingis has shot blocking ability like towns.
Jumpshot like Kaminsky.
Lateral quickness like WCS

Porzingis
Mudiay
Winslow

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
newyorknewyork
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5/25/2015  9:13 AM
Its Mudiay. At #4 you want a potential franchise players, Mudiay has the most potential to achieve that level at #4 if available.

NBA size for either guard position at 19 yrs old.
Elite level size for the PG position.
Ability to potentially defend multiple positions
Ability to create for himself or others
Pass first player looking to create for others before himself
Strong rebounder for his position(Which will often give him the ability to push the tempo and create fast breaks)

He is a potential 2-way player who can rebound and create open looks for others.

And if his jump shot comes along....

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
smackeddog
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5/25/2015  10:46 AM
I still have a horrible feeling that in a few years time, we'll be known to have had the 4th pick in a 3 deep draft.
Vmart
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5/25/2015  11:47 AM
smackeddog wrote:I still have a horrible feeling that in a few years time, we'll be known to have had the 4th pick in a 3 deep draft.

That is a natural feeling. But I guarantee you that you would have felt the same at 3rd pick too. Did we take the right guy even at number one the feeling is there.

My pick is Mudiay for the 4th pick. In this guard driven league to have a player like this on the team is exactly what is order. It gives the Knicks a capable passer/scorer looks for teammates first takes over if it is needed player.

BRIGGS
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5/25/2015  11:54 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:Its Mudiay. At #4 you want a potential franchise players, Mudiay has the most potential to achieve that level at #4 if available.

NBA size for either guard position at 19 yrs old.
Elite level size for the PG position.
Ability to potentially defend multiple positions
Ability to create for himself or others
Pass first player looking to create for others before himself
Strong rebounder for his position(Which will often give him the ability to push the tempo and create fast breaks)

He is a potential 2-way player who can rebound and create open looks for others.

And if his jump shot comes along....

The downside on Mudiay--his jumpshot is flat and will have trouble with TO's on a team that is not set to play at a fastre pace--a pace that would help Mudiay play to his strengths. I think we can find a very suitable PG back up later in the draft and resign Scvheyd and well be fine there. One reality is that people are forgetting we have ZERO big men signed. I m not letting a 7-2 player go by for a 6-4 PG.

RIP Crushalot😞
Vmart
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5/25/2015  12:14 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Its Mudiay. At #4 you want a potential franchise players, Mudiay has the most potential to achieve that level at #4 if available.

NBA size for either guard position at 19 yrs old.
Elite level size for the PG position.
Ability to potentially defend multiple positions
Ability to create for himself or others
Pass first player looking to create for others before himself
Strong rebounder for his position(Which will often give him the ability to push the tempo and create fast breaks)

He is a potential 2-way player who can rebound and create open looks for others.

And if his jump shot comes along....

The downside on Mudiay--his jumpshot is flat and will have trouble with TO's on a team that is not set to play at a fastre pace--a pace that would help Mudiay play to his strengths. I think we can find a very suitable PG back up later in the draft and resign Scvheyd and well be fine there. One reality is that people are forgetting we have ZERO big men signed. I m not letting a 7-2 player go by for a 6-4 PG.

What's the first thing you think of when you think Euro big man. Dirk and Pau and his brother. How many of these really panned out? The risk factor with Prozingis is way to high. For everyone of these Euro big men there is the Skeeta, Milicic and so on the risk factor with these guys is way to high. 7'2 in this new league you just need a serviceable big man.

I'm not one for predicting you might be right but The Knicks haven't had a good point guard in ages and it needs to be addressed. Take the guy who will elevate the others game and Mudiay will do that.

smackeddog
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5/25/2015  12:25 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/25/2015  12:25 PM
Vmart wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Its Mudiay. At #4 you want a potential franchise players, Mudiay has the most potential to achieve that level at #4 if available.

NBA size for either guard position at 19 yrs old.
Elite level size for the PG position.
Ability to potentially defend multiple positions
Ability to create for himself or others
Pass first player looking to create for others before himself
Strong rebounder for his position(Which will often give him the ability to push the tempo and create fast breaks)

He is a potential 2-way player who can rebound and create open looks for others.

And if his jump shot comes along....

The downside on Mudiay--his jumpshot is flat and will have trouble with TO's on a team that is not set to play at a fastre pace--a pace that would help Mudiay play to his strengths. I think we can find a very suitable PG back up later in the draft and resign Scvheyd and well be fine there. One reality is that people are forgetting we have ZERO big men signed. I m not letting a 7-2 player go by for a 6-4 PG.

What's the first thing you think of when you think Euro big man. Dirk and Pau and his brother. How many of these really panned out? The risk factor with Prozingis is way to high. For everyone of these Euro big men there is the Skeeta, Milicic and so on the risk factor with these guys is way to high. 7'2 in this new league you just need a serviceable big man.

I'm not one for predicting you might be right but The Knicks haven't had a good point guard in ages and it needs to be addressed. Take the guy who will elevate the others game and Mudiay will do that.

Yeah, the ones that haunt me are Lampe and also that one Denver drafted in 2002, Nikoloz Tskitishvili

smackeddog
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5/25/2015  12:28 PM
In fact here is the cautionary tale of Tskitishvili in full:

With the fifth pick in the 2002 NBA draft, the Denver Nuggets select ...

To fully understand the hype train surrounding the pick of Nikoloz Tskitishvili (hereafter referred to as "Skita" because I refuse to spend any more time typing out his name) some historical perspective is needed.

Having served a front office role and a brief stint as an assistant head coach with the Dallas Mavericks, developing a similar gangly European in Dirk Nowitzki, Kiki knew in his heart of hearts that he would look like a genius if another foreign prospect like Skita panned out. Even though he had a rough start, Dirk turned into one of the most dynamic players in the league in just two years, leading the 2000-01 Dallas Mavericks to a 53-29 regular season record.

Why couldn't Skita turn out similarly good? Kiki probably asked himself a hundred times leading up to the draft. Despite averaging only 6.6 points and 1.8 rebounds in just 11 games for Italian League champion Benetton Treviso, the Nuggets' front office confidence in selecting Skita was bolstered by the fateful words of a one Mike D'Antoni:

"His skills are off the charts," D'Antoni said. "He doesn't have a (fully developed) body. He's two or three years away. Hopefully, Denver will have some patience because he could be something special."

It's worth noting that it was D'Antoni who was in the Nuggets organization from 1997-1999 as Director of Player Personnel, and head coach during the 1998-99 lockout-shortened season. Thanks for the advice, Mike.

With an imposing 7-foot, 225 pound frame, Skita's sheer size and predraft workouts were enough to convince people of his potential.

Every team in the NBA traveled to Treviso to see him play. They all came away impressed. It isn't very often that you find a big man with the type of skills he possesses. While he's still a project at 19, he's as fundamentally sound as anyone in the draft. Has the potential to play four positions in the NBA, that's why he's getting all of the attention. He's a lock for the lottery and could go much higher once teams start pondering the alternatives.

It's not clear who wrote the above paragraph, but I can only imagine that the individual is now employed by the Charlotte Bobcats.

An extremely raw, 19 year old, seven-foot European dominating practice squads with his fundamentals couldn't possibly backfire. Said ESPN's Chad Ford, evaluating the 2002 NBA Draft:

In the end, Denver just couldn't pass on Tskitishvili's upside. Some have predicted that he's three years away. I don't think so. We said the same thing about Pau Gasol last year. He's so sound fundamentally, I think he'll be just fine at small forward. Eventually, he'll put on weight and muscle and turn into a devastating four. In five years, he may be the Kevin Garnett of this draft.

Ah, the famous "20 pounds of muscle" canard, which never actually materialized on Skita's frame. It's not every day that you hear a supposed "expert" compare Skita to future Hall-of-Famers Pau Gasol and Kevin Garnett. Keep that quote in mind the next time you're reading a draft-day evaluation of a player. Especially if it's from Chad Ford.

While Kiki was juggling Skita's lottery balls - so to speak - with his left hand, with his right he was busy deftly trading a "disgruntled Antonio McDyess" and the 25th overall pick to the Knicks for Marcus Camby, Maybner "Nene" Hilario (via the seventh overall pick, from the Knicks) and ... Mark Jackson(!) (who was immediately waived by the Nuggets). Both Camby and Nene turned out to have long and relatively productive careers with the Denver Nuggets.

Skita's time in Denver was marked by the opposite of a career arc. His was a career meteorite. For all of his amazing predraft athletic showings and D'Antoni-praised skills, Skita was absolutely overwhelmed by the speed and athleticism of the 2000s-era NBA. He "led" the 2002-03 Nuggets to a 17-65 record (tied for the worst in the NBA), posting averages of 3.9 points, 2.2 rebounds, 1.1 assists and 1 turnover in 16.3 minutes per game in 81 games. He shot 29% from the floor on 393 shots that season.

That was his most productive year with the Nuggets.

Each season thereafter, Skita's skills regressed - if you can call it that. By 2004-05, Skita was averaging just 6.3 minutes per game, putting up a meager 1.4 points and 1.2 rebounds on just 30% shooting from the field before being traded mid-season to the Golden State Warriors, along with Rodney White for Eduardo Najera, Luis Flores and a 2007 first-round pick (the pick was traded to the 76ers as part of the Allen Iverson deal). Skita never played more than 39 games a season after his rookie campaign, and was dumped unceremoniously from the NBA by 2006.

Skita was hyped as the next big European success story by scouts and D'Antoni, while the NBA was witnessing firsthand how dominant a skilled foreign big man in his prime could be in Nowitzki. The Nuggets franchise was desperate for an answer after an abysmal 27-55 showing in the 2001-02 season under Dan Issel, and bought into Kiki's faith in Skita. A perfect storm for an inexperienced GM with a high pick to shoot himself in the foot, and Kiki shot himself in both feet.

A'mare Stoudemire. Caron Butler. Tayshaun Prince. Carlos Boozer. Luis Scola. All players who have gone on to lead long, productive NBA careers. All taken after Skita. The selection of Skita with the fifth overall pick has passed into the annals of NBA history as one of the worst ever. But hey - at least the Nuggets didn't take Greg Oden over Kevin Durant (or Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan).

Ultimately, Skita was a victim of his own good play against inferior competition in Italy, during practice, creating high expectations for a player with a low ceiling. As the Nuggets' most hyped player, Skita simply turned out to be the biggest fish in a very small pond.

http://www.denverstiffs.com/2013/9/5/4692668/nba-most-hyped-nikoloz-tskitishvilis-dramatic-disappointment

crzymdups
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5/25/2015  12:34 PM
I agree completely about the Skita comparisons to Prozingis. Or Jan Vasely or whoever. No thanks to a project who will likely never pan out.

Give me Mudiay or Winslow or Russell or WCS.

¿ △ ?
newyorknewyork
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5/25/2015  1:00 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Its Mudiay. At #4 you want a potential franchise players, Mudiay has the most potential to achieve that level at #4 if available.

NBA size for either guard position at 19 yrs old.
Elite level size for the PG position.
Ability to potentially defend multiple positions
Ability to create for himself or others
Pass first player looking to create for others before himself
Strong rebounder for his position(Which will often give him the ability to push the tempo and create fast breaks)

He is a potential 2-way player who can rebound and create open looks for others.

And if his jump shot comes along....

The downside on Mudiay--his jumpshot is flat and will have trouble with TO's on a team that is not set to play at a fastre pace--a pace that would help Mudiay play to his strengths. I think we can find a very suitable PG back up later in the draft and resign Scvheyd and well be fine there. One reality is that people are forgetting we have ZERO big men signed. I m not letting a 7-2 player go by for a 6-4 PG.

At number 4 you want the best guy capable of making other players better. Those type of players are harder to find then anything else.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
jbeachboy
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5/25/2015  1:16 PM
mudiay, phil jackson said the 3 point shot is an error to try and win like that always which would give an edge to mudiay
FistOfOakley
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5/25/2015  2:22 PM
winslow... it's sort of close with mudiay but there isn't really a good enough reason to gamble on mudiay when winslow can be a great player...
Pick your #4

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