7-1 Face 4 with excellent ball skills great shooting mechanics size feel for how the game is played solid rebounder and position defender. If we did get Monroe--I kind of think that if we were able to secure Kaminsky wed have the best combination big men in terms of passing in the nBA. I think our style of play aesthetically would really increase--guys would get better shots and the game itself might look very clean and crisp. Having a natural face 4 at 7-1 would take load off Melo who could go back to his old spot at 3 and I think he would thrive(also would be able to play less minutes) we pick up say a Derrick Williams a guy who can finish and understands how to cut to the basket off the big guys and then we have shooters who might have more spacing and lanes to move in--I just think it would be a great fit. If we could find a first rounder next year on a trade down--even better. I still think he has untapped potential in the post as well. His Upside is a 20-8-5 PF

Downside-- Hes 231 pounds and I think he needs to weigh 10-14 pounds more(I thought he was 240-245) to be able to play BOTH 4 and 5. He can get buried at 231--no doubt about that. He very tall but his wingspan is 6-11 so he wont have that extra 3-4 inches in extension that might make up for his lack of lift. Athetic ability--I dont see Frank as a premium guy in up tempo--hes a system ball player and if it were 6 seconds or less Id probably pass. Defensively a tweener--not strong enough to guard big 5s to slow to guard quick 4's. I say thta with the caveat he has defended well every time I have seen him play for the most part--hes a worker and guys who work hard tend to get the job done in a team style play. His Downside is a 13-6-3 PF

Good guy

High BB IQ

Intriguing skills set

Has improved his game every year in the NCAA

Played in an offensive system that requires discipline and teamwork

2 times in Final Four, once in finals

Matched up well and more than held his own against the two bigs expected to go 1 & 2

College Player of the Year

Yeah, why even consider taking a guy with this kind of pedigree, even if he shines in workouts?

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Upside

7-1 Face 4 with excellent ball skills great shooting mechanics size feel for how the game is played solid rebounder and position defender. If we did get Monroe--I kind of think that if we were able to secure Kaminsky wed have the best combination big men in terms of passing in the nBA. I think our style of play aesthetically would really increase--guys would get better shots and the game itself might look very clean and crisp. Having a natural face 4 at 7-1 would take load off Melo who could go back to his old spot at 3 and I think he would thrive(also would be able to play less minutes) we pick up say a Derrick Williams a guy who can finish and understands how to cut to the basket off the big guys and then we have shooters who might have more spacing and lanes to move in--I just think it would be a great fit. If we could find a first rounder next year on a trade down--even better. I still think he has untapped potential in the post as well. His Upside is a 20-8-5 PF

Downside-- Hes 231 pounds and I think he needs to weigh 10-14 pounds more(I thought he was 240-245) to be able to play BOTH 4 and 5. He can get buried at 231--no doubt about that. He very tall but his wingspan is 6-11 so he wont have that extra 3-4 inches in extension that might make up for his lack of lift. Athetic ability--I dont see Frank as a premium guy in up tempo--hes a system ball player and if it were 6 seconds or less Id probably pass. Defensively a tweener--not strong enough to guard big 5s to slow to guard quick 4's. I say thta with the caveat he has defended well every time I have seen him play for the most part--hes a worker and guys who work hard tend to get the job done in a team style play. His Downside is a 13-6-3 PF

if he can't play defense adequately then he won't be a starter on a title team. you don't draft a bench player 4th. that said, i'd try to get winslow and stein at this point, since stein is likely to go lower than kaminsky. knicks need a decent defender off the bench.

Ive never seen him play bad D have you?

BRIGGS wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Upside

7-1 Face 4 with excellent ball skills great shooting mechanics size feel for how the game is played solid rebounder and position defender. If we did get Monroe--I kind of think that if we were able to secure Kaminsky wed have the best combination big men in terms of passing in the nBA. I think our style of play aesthetically would really increase--guys would get better shots and the game itself might look very clean and crisp. Having a natural face 4 at 7-1 would take load off Melo who could go back to his old spot at 3 and I think he would thrive(also would be able to play less minutes) we pick up say a Derrick Williams a guy who can finish and understands how to cut to the basket off the big guys and then we have shooters who might have more spacing and lanes to move in--I just think it would be a great fit. If we could find a first rounder next year on a trade down--even better. I still think he has untapped potential in the post as well. His Upside is a 20-8-5 PF

Downside-- Hes 231 pounds and I think he needs to weigh 10-14 pounds more(I thought he was 240-245) to be able to play BOTH 4 and 5. He can get buried at 231--no doubt about that. He very tall but his wingspan is 6-11 so he wont have that extra 3-4 inches in extension that might make up for his lack of lift. Athetic ability--I dont see Frank as a premium guy in up tempo--hes a system ball player and if it were 6 seconds or less Id probably pass. Defensively a tweener--not strong enough to guard big 5s to slow to guard quick 4's. I say thta with the caveat he has defended well every time I have seen him play for the most part--hes a worker and guys who work hard tend to get the job done in a team style play. His Downside is a 13-6-3 PF

if he can't play defense adequately then he won't be a starter on a title team. you don't draft a bench player 4th. that said, i'd try to get winslow and stein at this point, since stein is likely to go lower than kaminsky. knicks need a decent defender off the bench.

Ive never seen him play bad D have you?

His defense is underrated. He's a great positional defender with high defensive IQ. Sometimes that's better than a Towns type who has the physical tools to jump out the gym and lateral quickness on guards, but doesn't know how to use his physical tools without fouling out. Positional defenders are always underrated and usually stay injury free longer than the athletic types. Kaminsky has grown on me. Along with Winslow. But Kaminsky is 7'1 and bigs hold more value than a SF with SG size.

BRIGGS wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Upside

7-1 Face 4 with excellent ball skills great shooting mechanics size feel for how the game is played solid rebounder and position defender. If we did get Monroe--I kind of think that if we were able to secure Kaminsky wed have the best combination big men in terms of passing in the nBA. I think our style of play aesthetically would really increase--guys would get better shots and the game itself might look very clean and crisp. Having a natural face 4 at 7-1 would take load off Melo who could go back to his old spot at 3 and I think he would thrive(also would be able to play less minutes) we pick up say a Derrick Williams a guy who can finish and understands how to cut to the basket off the big guys and then we have shooters who might have more spacing and lanes to move in--I just think it would be a great fit. If we could find a first rounder next year on a trade down--even better. I still think he has untapped potential in the post as well. His Upside is a 20-8-5 PF

Downside-- Hes 231 pounds and I think he needs to weigh 10-14 pounds more(I thought he was 240-245) to be able to play BOTH 4 and 5. He can get buried at 231--no doubt about that. He very tall but his wingspan is 6-11 so he wont have that extra 3-4 inches in extension that might make up for his lack of lift. Athetic ability--I dont see Frank as a premium guy in up tempo--hes a system ball player and if it were 6 seconds or less Id probably pass. Defensively a tweener--not strong enough to guard big 5s to slow to guard quick 4's. I say thta with the caveat he has defended well every time I have seen him play for the most part--hes a worker and guys who work hard tend to get the job done in a team style play. His Downside is a 13-6-3 PF

if he can't play defense adequately then he won't be a starter on a title team. you don't draft a bench player 4th. that said, i'd try to get winslow and stein at this point, since stein is likely to go lower than kaminsky. knicks need a decent defender off the bench.

Ive never seen him play bad D have you?

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Hard to understand the dislike some have for Kaminsky.

Good guy

High BB IQ

Intriguing skills set

Has improved his game every year in the NCAA

Played in an offensive system that requires discipline and teamwork

2 times in Final Four, once in finals

Matched up well and more than held his own against the two bigs expected to go 1 & 2

College Player of the Year

Yeah, why even consider taking a guy with this kind of pedigree, even if he shines in workouts?

how many times did Frank have to face bigger, stronger and more athletic players? because in the NBA thats what he would be facing most every night

People are talking about Towns and OK4 playing at the 4. Towns is no stiff, but I question his lateral quickness going up against a stretch 4. Same is true for OK4.

As centers, all 3 should be able to adapt on D, although I only expect Towns to be an above average shot blocker.

I was doubtful about Kaminsky's lateral movement, but saw enough on the positive side during the tournament to make me reassess him as a defender. I do think he needs another 10-15 lbs of muscle if he intends to be a center.

Once again, this is what you have the workouts for. You learn things about players when they are placed in different situations from those they faced in college.

I'll bring up a past Knick, too. Remember all the talk about Gallinari being another soft Euro defender? I would say his defensive value, at some point, actually surpassed his offensive value.

You just never know how players will eventually work out, and that's why you do your due diligence and put them through workouts which make them show your everything they have or don't have as players.

WaltLongmire wrote:

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Hard to understand the dislike some have for Kaminsky.

Good guy

High BB IQ

Intriguing skills set

Has improved his game every year in the NCAA

Played in an offensive system that requires discipline and teamwork

2 times in Final Four, once in finals

Matched up well and more than held his own against the two bigs expected to go 1 & 2

College Player of the Year

Yeah, why even consider taking a guy with this kind of pedigree, even if he shines in workouts?

how many times did Frank have to face bigger, stronger and more athletic players? because in the NBA thats what he would be facing most every night

Ultimately depends on where you play him, and the same is true for Towns and OK4.

People are talking about Towns and OK4 playing at the 4. Towns is no stiff, but I question his lateral quickness going up against a stretch 4. Same is true for OK4.

As centers, all 3 should be able to adapt on D, although I only expect Towns to be an above average shot blocker.

I was doubtful about Kaminsky's lateral movement, but saw enough on the positive side during the tournament to make me reassess him as a defender. I do think he needs another 10-15 lbs of muscle if he intends to be a center.

Once again, this is what you have the workouts for. You learn things about players when they are placed in different situations from those they faced in college.

I'll bring up a past Knick, too. Remember all the talk about Gallinari being another soft Euro defender? I would say his defensive value, at some point, actually surpassed his offensive value.

You just never know how players will eventually work out, and that's why you do your due diligence and put them through workouts which make them show your everything they have or don't have as players.

A line up of:
C Kaminsky
PF Milsap
SF Melo
SG Galloway
PG...ahhh... if only we had someone who break down a defense ;)

BigDaddyG wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Hard to understand the dislike some have for Kaminsky.

Good guy

High BB IQ

Intriguing skills set

Has improved his game every year in the NCAA

Played in an offensive system that requires discipline and teamwork

2 times in Final Four, once in finals

Matched up well and more than held his own against the two bigs expected to go 1 & 2

College Player of the Year

Yeah, why even consider taking a guy with this kind of pedigree, even if he shines in workouts?

Viewer fatigue. Plus, people don't do him any favors when they compare him to Dirk Nowitzki. He's not on that level athletically or skill wise.

Also, people always value potential and upside over fundamentals and established game

BRIGGS wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Upside

7-1 Face 4 with excellent ball skills great shooting mechanics size feel for how the game is played solid rebounder and position defender. If we did get Monroe--I kind of think that if we were able to secure Kaminsky wed have the best combination big men in terms of passing in the nBA. I think our style of play aesthetically would really increase--guys would get better shots and the game itself might look very clean and crisp. Having a natural face 4 at 7-1 would take load off Melo who could go back to his old spot at 3 and I think he would thrive(also would be able to play less minutes) we pick up say a Derrick Williams a guy who can finish and understands how to cut to the basket off the big guys and then we have shooters who might have more spacing and lanes to move in--I just think it would be a great fit. If we could find a first rounder next year on a trade down--even better. I still think he has untapped potential in the post as well. His Upside is a 20-8-5 PF

Downside-- Hes 231 pounds and I think he needs to weigh 10-14 pounds more(I thought he was 240-245) to be able to play BOTH 4 and 5. He can get buried at 231--no doubt about that. He very tall but his wingspan is 6-11 so he wont have that extra 3-4 inches in extension that might make up for his lack of lift. Athetic ability--I dont see Frank as a premium guy in up tempo--hes a system ball player and if it were 6 seconds or less Id probably pass. Defensively a tweener--not strong enough to guard big 5s to slow to guard quick 4's. I say thta with the caveat he has defended well every time I have seen him play for the most part--hes a worker and guys who work hard tend to get the job done in a team style play. His Downside is a 13-6-3 PF

if he can't play defense adequately then he won't be a starter on a title team. you don't draft a bench player 4th. that said, i'd try to get winslow and stein at this point, since stein is likely to go lower than kaminsky. knicks need a decent defender off the bench.

Ive never seen him play bad D have you?

as a matter of fact i thought he showed superior defensive instincts but there is obviously some doubt how far those instincts will take him if what people are saying is true, like he is a slow-footed white boy. someone has made a comparison to gallinari (although probably not for defense). gallinari looks slow and awkward out there but his defensive instincts are quite good. if kaminsky can achieve a similar level then he will end up a bargain, just as feel gallinari would be if he could possibly remain healthy.