RonRon wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:In the end both Winslow and Mudiay are worthy picks, but it's gonna be up to Phil to figure out who gives us the best value at #4. Who has the best upside and best chance to actually maximize that potential. It's a tough decision IMO.

picking mudiay is like picking a faster iman shumpert. that is at best a #10 pick... not #4.

IMO,
actually Winslow seems to be a better comparison to Iman Shumpert than Mudiay, though Winslow could be better than Iman
My point is there is a reason why Iman looks better in Cleveland along with every other player while they were on The Knicks

Meaning he has to play with a Jimmy Butler, Kawaii Leanard, Lebron James, along with those Coaches/system/strong DEFENSE/CHEMISTRY/TEAM PLAY, or/and many TOP TIER TALENTS
Iman Shumpert failed as a Knick because we didn't have TOP TIER DEFENDERS and FACILATORS/TO CREATE FOR OTHERS, and LEADERS around him, with too many players that were weak on DEFENSE

I like Winslow, however, he will be your Avery Bradley/Tony Allen type defender, while you need MUCH MORE DEFENSE coming from other positions
He is not a SG yet and an undersized SF, so do we push CA to PF full time?
If we play CA at SF though, he will have trouble defending shooters and shooters that can penetrate/faciltiate as well, play him at PF then we are weak in DEFENSE, SHOT BLOCKING, REBOUNDING
Also Thanasis plays the same position, while neither looks like they can play the PG either, so one of them will be a mismatch at SF, in addition to CA as well at PF

We signed Tyson Chandler and drafted Iman Shumpert, then prayed we would have a good defensive team, DEFENSE is played by 5 players
While you can have 1 weak defender, NOTHING else more, you simply cannot make up for more than 1 not very good defender out of 5 players

ron the beauty of the triangle is that positions 1 2 3 are fairly interchangeable. where you need a real presence that is not as interchangeable is the two frontcourt positions, both of which basically require skills on both sides but who both inhabit the key/elbow areas.

this is why after towns and okayfor are gone, and it is almost certain they will be, you need all-around players who are essentially defenders who are also swing players. winslow tops the list in this regard.

the knicks could decide to trade down for stein, kamminsky, pozngis etc. but again you need real key/post/elbow skills at the 4/5 but also defenders. no one-way players please.

your point about thanasis and/or cleanthony early is fine but, again, these players are all within that special size of 6'5" to 6'8" range (perfect in the triangle offense) and at worst you have to sit two of them which only creates the depth that winning teams eventually rely on as the season grinds on.

crzymdups wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Lakers are about to send shock wave by selecting Russell instead of Towns or Okafor. I see Minny selecting Okafor, because it will be to hard to pass on his offensive efficiency. At the end, Knicks will select Towns and later trade him and Calderon to LA for Russell and a late draft pick.

I can't see any scenario in the world in which Philadelphia didn't draft Towns. No way they let him slip to 4th, even if they have to trade Noel or Embiid or Towns himself.

Would you trade the fourth pick for Embiid?

crzymdups wrote:I think there's some residual hangover about not getting a top two pick that is making people think that the player we get at 4 has to somehow be the superstar of the draft. It's not going to happen. We're not getting Towns, Okafor or Russell. It was a three player draft in terms of sure thing stars and we got pick 4. Sh*t happens.

I think we just need to pick the guy who we think is the best player at 4. Period. No funny business, no praying for a miraculous development from a raw talent. Pick the best basketball player. We need help at every position. If you think Winslow is the best player - just take him.

I think there's a misconception that it's a 3 surefire star draft and it's really 1 sure thing in towns and russell, winslow and okafor have a chance to be.... and yes winslow deserves to be in the conversation with russell and okafor and in some respects he's better than them... he's the best two way player after towns...

FistOfOakley wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think there's some residual hangover about not getting a top two pick that is making people think that the player we get at 4 has to somehow be the superstar of the draft. It's not going to happen. We're not getting Towns, Okafor or Russell. It was a three player draft in terms of sure thing stars and we got pick 4. Sh*t happens.

I think we just need to pick the guy who we think is the best player at 4. Period. No funny business, no praying for a miraculous development from a raw talent. Pick the best basketball player. We need help at every position. If you think Winslow is the best player - just take him.

I think there's a misconception that it's a 3 surefire star draft and it's really 1 sure thing in towns and russell, winslow and okafor have a chance to be.... and yes winslow deserves to be in the conversation with russell and okafor and in some respects he's better than them... he's the best two way player after towns...

which is why the knicks would be wise to draft winslow. you need two-way players in your starting lineup.

crzymdups wrote:

dk7th wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think there's some residual hangover about not getting a top two pick that is making people think that the player we get at 4 has to somehow be the superstar of the draft. It's not going to happen. We're not getting Towns, Okafor or Russell. It was a three player draft in terms of sure thing stars and we got pick 4. Sh*t happens.

I think we just need to pick the guy who we think is the best player at 4. Period. No funny business, no praying for a miraculous development from a raw talent. Pick the best basketball player. We need help at every position. If you think Winslow is the best player - just take him.

I think there's a misconception that it's a 3 surefire star draft and it's really 1 sure thing in towns and russell, winslow and okafor have a chance to be.... and yes winslow deserves to be in the conversation with russell and okafor and in some respects he's better than them... he's the best two way player after towns...

which is why the knicks would be wise to draft winslow. you need two-way players in your starting lineup.

yeah, I absolutely agree with this.

I just think WCS will be a good weapon on offense, too. we've seen how effective Tyson and DeAndre Jordan are as lob guys in this league. WCS also was among the leaders in the NCAA in put back baskets. a major tenant of the triangle is to have the bigs down low and fighting for offensive rebounds. Stein is very very good at that.

but I think the Knicks will be looking at college guys who are competitive both ways and can come in and adjust quickly.

If I had to guess, I'd imagine their top three guys at pick 4 right now are - Willie Cauley Stein, Justice Winslow and Frank Kaminsky.

i did not know that about the triangle, and stein if i recall correctly does two things pretty well: decent passer who may be something like a noah-type which is not nothing-- and i am less certain about his nose for the ball on the o boards-- if it was not clear before it sure is clear now that an offenisve rebounder is so valuable in the playoffs. just look at what the kid on cleveland is doing. so again, if stein projects to provide decent playmaking as a passer and as an offensive rebounder then i would be happy if the knicks drafted him.

at this point i hope the knicks can somehow pull off acquiring winslow and kaminsky or winslow and stein. if stein and kaminsky never crack the starting lineup then guess what-- you need depth to be a champion.

WaltLongmire wrote:
The analyst talks about the Feb-April numbers- and that was the period where he was playing against PFs, if what I have read is true.

This analyst also considers him to be a SF, a position we already have filled. I'm not sure that you want Anthony/Winslow/Monroe frontline, which is what you might end up with.

Also not sure that Winslow is a SG, which some think he can play. He does not shoot well off the dribble, and seems to need more spacing to get off his shot, something he had when matched against college PFs.

He has to show a more sophisticated game in workouts, IMO. If he comes in and shows some more polish and versatility as a jump shooter, Phil might be intrigued. He is also young! Turned 19 the end of March. Maybe he has another inch of growth in him.

Winslow has been a winner at every level- this is something I consider significant. Guy has a powerful body, and can get to the hoop. With the NBA rules protecting guys who attack the basket from the outside, I would expect that he would get to the line a great deal. You also see him passing off a lot, and he's considered an unselfish player.

He's another on the list of guys I might not choose first who I would be pretty happy about getting if Jackson gave him his stamp of approval and took him.

If you look at the game logs... winslow wasn't playing pf until march and he had a good 8 games in feb before the move to PF...

most think he can't handle the ball which i think is a bit overblown... if you can make good decisions on the break and can get to the basket in the half court.. that's more than enough...

smackeddog wrote:I'm intrigued to see what would happen if we fielded a team with 3 SFs who can defend, hit the 3 and rebound at the SG,SF and PF (Melo, Carroll and Winslow)

Or Tobias Harris and Winslow and Melo.

The option to take Winslow is appealing to me a little more and more.

Can someone who saw him play a lot talk about whether they think he can guard opposing SGs? If he could do that, I might edge him past Stein on my board.

He's got that sort of second jump in his jump that guys like Jordan and Sprewell had. I like his fire and heart a lot. I think he'd be a fan favorite and a potential great Robin to Melo.

Galloway
Winslow
Melo
Tobias Harris (or Greg Monroe)
Robin Lopez

That team would get after it and try their butts off at both ends every night. I just don't know whether Winslow can be a real SG in the NBA. Part of me thinks he'll be like Paul George and he'll get tried out at SG but eventually slide over to SF where he'll be much better.

crzymdups wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I'm intrigued to see what would happen if we fielded a team with 3 SFs who can defend, hit the 3 and rebound at the SG,SF and PF (Melo, Carroll and Winslow)

Or Tobias Harris and Winslow and Melo.

The option to take Winslow is appealing to me a little more and more.

Can someone who saw him play a lot talk about whether they think he can guard opposing SGs? If he could do that, I might edge him past Stein on my board.

He's got that sort of second jump in his jump that guys like Jordan and Sprewell had. I like his fire and heart a lot. I think he'd be a fan favorite and a potential great Robin to Melo.

Galloway
Winslow
Melo
Tobias Harris (or Greg Monroe)
Robin Lopez

That team would get after it and try their butts off at both ends every night. I just don't know whether Winslow can be a real SG in the NBA. Part of me thinks he'll be like Paul George and he'll get tried out at SG but eventually slide over to SF where he'll be much better.

My friend at work is a die hard duke fan. Before i knew we were picking 4th i asked him about ok4.....he surprisingly agreed with me that ok4 is alergic to defense and what surprised me is when he said Winslow was the best defender and the best player for most of their championship run....his stats proves that as well....and he was really talking about defense.

I was big on winslow and towns during the tourney. I used to argue that ok4 wasnt even the best player on his team.....it was winslow. His measurements made me take a step back so i started craving for Stein.....for good reason. But even if we had the top pick....i thought a trade down for winslow and a big....was better than any of the top picks...except for Towns....so i was high on him.

But after seeing his stats and doing some thinking. .....picking 4th was the second best thing for us....this way we dont have to reach for him.....Winslow can play SG and SF.....he will over power SGs in the post.....and his first step will be used against SFs....he can also guard 1,2,3.....and as he gets stronger.....he will guard 4s.....similar to barkleys size.....hes a brick with small body fat and lower body strength.

Winslow can do what Stein can do.....just at different positions.....the difference is winslow is no stiff on offense. So he will only get better on both ends. Stein is so far behind on offense....his ceiling on offense could be similar to d.jordan....just catching lobs and put backs. You can find a tall guy to do that later in the draft. You cant find a championship pedigree like winslow....the ultimate glue guy. Him and carrol would help team defense like WCS would......makes us faster on offense with mis matches in 4 positions.

Sg....Carrol
sf....Winslow
pf....Melo
c.....Monroe

Find another center like Upshaw later in the draft.....and you have another big off the bench if you want a bigger lineup....or simply replace monroe with a defensive big....i think winslow will have a major impact on this team.....especially with his chemistry with melo and wanting to play in ny. He will be our jimmy butler.