Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:In the end both Winslow and Mudiay are worthy picks, but it's gonna be up to Phil to figure out who gives us the best value at #4. Who has the best upside and best chance to actually maximize that potential. It's a tough decision IMO.

picking mudiay is like picking a faster iman shumpert. that is at best a #10 pick... not #4.

IMO,
actually Winslow seems to be a better comparison to Iman Shumpert than Mudiay, though Winslow could be better than Iman
My point is there is a reason why Iman looks better in Cleveland along with every other player while they were on The Knicks

Meaning he has to play with a Jimmy Butler, Kawaii Leanard, Lebron James, along with those Coaches/system/strong DEFENSE/CHEMISTRY/TEAM PLAY, or/and many TOP TIER TALENTS
Iman Shumpert failed as a Knick because we didn't have TOP TIER DEFENDERS and FACILATORS/TO CREATE FOR OTHERS, and LEADERS around him, with too many players that were weak on DEFENSE

I like Winslow, however, he will be your Avery Bradley/Tony Allen type defender, while you need MUCH MORE DEFENSE coming from other positions
He is not a SG yet and an undersized SF, so do we push CA to PF full time?
If we play CA at SF though, he will have trouble defending shooters and shooters that can penetrate/faciltiate as well, play him at PF then we are weak in DEFENSE, SHOT BLOCKING, REBOUNDING
Also Thanasis plays the same position, while neither looks like they can play the PG either, so one of them will be a mismatch at SF, in addition to CA as well at PF

We signed Tyson Chandler and drafted Iman Shumpert, then prayed we would have a good defensive team, DEFENSE is played by 5 players
While you can have 1 weak defender, NOTHING else more, you simply cannot make up for more than 1 not very good defender out of 5 players

RonRon wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:In the end both Winslow and Mudiay are worthy picks, but it's gonna be up to Phil to figure out who gives us the best value at #4. Who has the best upside and best chance to actually maximize that potential. It's a tough decision IMO.

picking mudiay is like picking a faster iman shumpert. that is at best a #10 pick... not #4.

IMO,
actually Winslow seems to be a better comparison to Iman Shumpert than Mudiay, though Winslow could be better than Iman
My point is there is a reason why Iman looks better in Cleveland along with every other player while they were on The Knicks

Meaning he has to play with a Jimmy Butler, Kawaii Leanard, Lebron James, along with those Coaches/system/strong DEFENSE/CHEMISTRY/TEAM PLAY, or/and many TOP TIER TALENTS
Iman Shumpert failed as a Knick because we didn't have TOP TIER DEFENDERS and FACILATORS/TO CREATE FOR OTHERS, and LEADERS around him, with too many players that were weak on DEFENSE

I like Winslow, however, he will be your Avery Bradley/Tony Allen type defender, while you need MUCH MORE DEFENSE coming from other positions
He is not a SG yet and an undersized SF, so do we push CA to PF full time?
If we play CA at SF though, he will have trouble defending shooters and shooters that can penetrate/faciltiate as well, play him at PF then we are weak in DEFENSE, SHOT BLOCKING, REBOUNDING
Also Thanasis plays the same position, while neither looks like they can play the PG either, so one of them will be a mismatch at SF, in addition to CA as well at PF

We signed Tyson Chandler and drafted Iman Shumpert, then prayed we would have a good defensive team, DEFENSE is played by 5 players
While you can have 1 weak defender, NOTHING else more, you simply cannot make up for more than 1 not very good defender out of 5 players

He failed because we gave him too much responsibility over the course of his career. Then comes Phil's triangle system where he started to over think too much, and wasn't using his instincts like he is now. He said Cleveland makes everything real simple. If you're open, shoot...If they close out, drive. He doesn't have to worry about any geometrical shapes or Melo in his ear saying, "I'm open" on every play. Sometimes keeping it simple is better. Everybody has different mental capacities. And most players rather use their instincts than an offensive system. Unless you are the best player on the team, Phil wants everybody else to stay within the system. This is why they probably love Winslow, and not so much with Mudiay....But as with Kobe coming out of HS.....The last thing you want to do is pass on a potential superstar. And Mudiay has superstar potential. Winslow seems to be at best, Robin next to a Batman role.

jbeachboy wrote:why doesnt winslow have superstar potential??

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:why doesnt winslow have superstar potential??

Usually that player is someone who can be the focal point of your offense. Someone who can carry a team for considerable stretches of a game or season. A player who can ascend to a higher level when it's needed. Guys like Pippen who are great all around sidekicks aren't the kind of guys you base everything around but they fill in all the gaps and make things happen when it's needed. Winslow is more of a Pippen type.

Not a bad guy to have. All of Pip's numbers went up during Jordan's hiatus except his assists.

jbeachboy wrote:why doesnt winslow have superstar potential??

Because for seem reason people value offence over defense. If Winslow was potentially an elite scorer, with question marks on his defense, he would be ranked higher than he is asa potentially elite defender with question marks on his offense. Also his high I think is an issue.

Knicks1969 wrote:Lakers are about to send shock wave by selecting Russell instead of Towns or Okafor. I see Minny selecting Okafor, because it will be to hard to pass on his offensive efficiency. At the end, Knicks will select Towns and later trade him and Calderon to LA for Russell and a late draft pick.

I can't see any scenario in the world in which Philadelphia didn't draft Towns. No way they let him slip to 4th, even if they have to trade Noel or Embiid or Towns himself.

NYKBocker wrote:I love Winslow and I think he will be an Ariza type player. I just don't think he is worth the #4 pick right now.

I think there's some residual hangover about not getting a top two pick that is making people think that the player we get at 4 has to somehow be the superstar of the draft. It's not going to happen. We're not getting Towns, Okafor or Russell. It was a three player draft in terms of sure thing stars and we got pick 4. Sh*t happens.

I think we just need to pick the guy who we think is the best player at 4. Period. No funny business, no praying for a miraculous development from a raw talent. Pick the best basketball player. We need help at every position. If you think Winslow is the best player - just take him.