callmened wrote:please define value. future value? next yr value? value in terms of who you could get in return? value for winning a ring? value in leading a team? franchise player value?

for the record i dont take games player in march and april too seriously...especially on BAD teams. but yes gallo did play well

Gallo if he stays healthy could be a superstar in this league the way the game is played now.

given their similar numbers it is clear that gallo is a better value going into next season.

few would argue that gallo is the better player but then again it is basketball not tennis.

dk7th wrote:gallinari will make 11.5 million and his ws/48 is 1.29, his box plus minus is 1.1
carmelo will make 24.5 million and his ws/48 is 1.36, his box plus minus is 1.4

given their similar numbers it is clear that gallo is a better value going into next season.

few would argue that gallo is the better player but then again it is basketball not tennis.

im sorry im simply not a sabermetrics guy. (WTH is a WS/48 - i hate stats that extrapolate to 48mins; especially on bad teams)

again, i ask - how are we defining "value"? per dollar?

callmened wrote:

dk7th wrote:gallinari will make 11.5 million and his ws/48 is 1.29, his box plus minus is 1.1
carmelo will make 24.5 million and his ws/48 is 1.36, his box plus minus is 1.4

given their similar numbers it is clear that gallo is a better value going into next season.

few would argue that gallo is the better player but then again it is basketball not tennis.

im sorry im simply not a sabermetrics guy. (WTH is a WS/48 - i hate stats that extrapolate to 48mins; especially on bad teams)

again, i ask - how are we defining "value"? per dollar?

http://wagesofwins.com/how-to-calculate-wins-produced/

dave berri is someone whose take on basketball i respect. some people use PER as a measure of effectiveness and value but since the statistic weights usage rates i dismiss it.

i define "value" as what i am getting in return for the money i have spent, so yes it is really how many wins per dollar a player is providing. as donnie walsh said: "a player is good at one price and bad at another." this is a pragmatic, unemotional approach. the opposite approach-- "what the market will bear"-- is the downfall of creating a winner.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

callmened wrote:

dk7th wrote:gallinari will make 11.5 million and his ws/48 is 1.29, his box plus minus is 1.1
carmelo will make 24.5 million and his ws/48 is 1.36, his box plus minus is 1.4

given their similar numbers it is clear that gallo is a better value going into next season.

few would argue that gallo is the better player but then again it is basketball not tennis.

im sorry im simply not a sabermetrics guy. (WTH is a WS/48 - i hate stats that extrapolate to 48mins; especially on bad teams)

again, i ask - how are we defining "value"? per dollar?

http://wagesofwins.com/how-to-calculate-wins-produced/

dave berri is someone whose take on basketball i respect. some people use PER as a measure of effectiveness and value but since the statistic weights usage rates i dismiss it.

i define "value" as what i am getting in return for the money i have spent, so yes it is really how many wins per dollar a player is providing. as donnie walsh said: "a player is good at one price and bad at another." this is a pragmatic, unemotional approach. the opposite approach-- "what the market will bear"-- is the downfall of creating a winner.

Funny quote from Walsh. Not sure he followed that philosophy while in NY.

not sure walsh ever had autonomy once april 2010 rolled around. once the league had to intervene on behalf of the knicks he was hired, only thing is he was not hired merely to be a demolition man. he was going to try and build something but a malignant narcissist drunk could not keep his stinking paws off the knicks. oh well.

Knixkik wrote:Comparing an injury prone role player to an all-star/recent scoring champ is a bad comparison.

perhaps you need to revisit the term "value" and really try to figure out what it means to you.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

callmened wrote:

dk7th wrote:gallinari will make 11.5 million and his ws/48 is 1.29, his box plus minus is 1.1
carmelo will make 24.5 million and his ws/48 is 1.36, his box plus minus is 1.4

given their similar numbers it is clear that gallo is a better value going into next season.

few would argue that gallo is the better player but then again it is basketball not tennis.

im sorry im simply not a sabermetrics guy. (WTH is a WS/48 - i hate stats that extrapolate to 48mins; especially on bad teams)

again, i ask - how are we defining "value"? per dollar?

http://wagesofwins.com/how-to-calculate-wins-produced/

dave berri is someone whose take on basketball i respect. some people use PER as a measure of effectiveness and value but since the statistic weights usage rates i dismiss it.

i define "value" as what i am getting in return for the money i have spent, so yes it is really how many wins per dollar a player is providing. as donnie walsh said: "a player is good at one price and bad at another." this is a pragmatic, unemotional approach. the opposite approach-- "what the market will bear"-- is the downfall of creating a winner.

Funny quote from Walsh. Not sure he followed that philosophy while in NY.

not sure walsh ever had autonomy once april 2010 rolled around. once the league had to intervene on behalf of the knicks he was hired, only thing is he was not hired merely to be a demolition man. he was going to try and build something but a malignant narcissist drunk could not keep his stinking paws off the knicks. oh well.

I think he was chosen because of his fondness for Isiah. He had a two star plan that involved trading his lottery pick for cap space and a top 3 protected pick for cap space. He signed a guy that Phoenix docs said would not be able to hold up for the length of his contract and had injuries so severe that his contract couldn't be insured. The only waffling on the Melo trade that has ever been reported was his not wanting to include Moz. Moz was a back up in Denver for the next three years. He looks great now but I doubt he would have developed in NY. Moz only got back on the court because Shawne was suspended and Amare was out for the same game.

walsh had "fondness" for isaiah... wtf

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Comparing an injury prone role player to an all-star/recent scoring champ is a bad comparison.

perhaps you need to revisit the term "value" and really try to figure out what it means to you.

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Comparing an injury prone role player to an all-star/recent scoring champ is a bad comparison.

perhaps you need to revisit the term "value" and really try to figure out what it means to you.

Better player: Anthony, no argument there. More valuable, Anthony, because he is much more valuable to his team than Gallinari is. I understand he is an analytics sweet heart, but Gallinari is not going to command a max contract next go-around, no question there. If multiple teams are willing to offer him a max contract as they were Melo, then i'm wrong. But this conversation is pointless, we know where you stand...

perhaps you can delineate in what way melo is more valuable to the knicks because i don't see it. also, as i have explained very clearly: "what the market will bear" has no bearing on a player's true value. you apparently disagree but you should try to explain why.