in fact one of the MAIN staples of the triangle is the "moment of truth". basically it states that once the ball handler passes half court (and is within 3 ft of defender), he then passes it off to start the triangle offense. (ive attached video clips and playbooks to illustrate - but thats the main gist of the moment of truth)

lets say we draft russell or mudiay and theyre actually very good. well would the triangle get the most out of them if theyre first play is to get rid of the ball?

again, im not against taking the best player available. however if the knicks do they must play to his strengths. i think guards now adays are ATTACKING PGs. in fact the league rules are BEGGING for these types of point guards. THe triangle takes the ball out of their hands

http://thetriangleoffense.blogspot.com/2010/05/moment-of-truth.html

thoughts?!

Seriously, though, I think this is why Jackson's teams never had PGs averaging a ton of assists on them, and for the most part, the guys he did have were known more for their jump shooting- Kerr, Armstrong, Paxson, etc.

But the triangle also puts a premium on guards who are cutting to the basket, and someone who goes to the basket well without the ball should be rewarded.

You could see Galloway doing this during the season. I always thought he gave his dribble up too soon, but I think he was trying to follow the rules set up for him as a guard in the triangle. He would usually pass off and then move try to cut to the basket…sometimes getting a pass or handoff.

I don't think THJ followed the system. Shved did a better job, but still seemed to play like a "normal" PG much of the time.

We did have some pick and rolls, but it seemed like we had more pick and pops(I think that is what they call it.)

The Pinch Post is actually where a guard like Russell or Mudiay would be asked to got to work. We don't have to guess how a big guard like Russell or Mudiay would look in the Triangle cuz that's exactly why Phil brought in Shved and that is the role Shved played in our offense. It's not a mystery. It's very clear and defined.

Shved — a big, crafty combo guard whom the Knicks’ brass thinks can work in the triangle offense — gets a 29-game tryout. According to a league scout, he was an excellent spot-up shooter in international competition, but it hasn’t translated to the NBA and he only has average passing skills. He was a solid point guard on Russia’s 2012 Olympic team that won bronze in London.
“They like big guards that can initiate the offense and play on the wing also,” one person familiar with the Knicks thinking said. “It’s a very low-risk opportunity to try him out and round out the picks previously given up.”

So we saw how successful Shved was in that role and I would suspect it would be the same for Russell or Mudiay who both have the size and skills to excel in the same role.

callmened wrote:As i mentioned in the "TRIANGLE and PGS" post, i'm worried that the triangle will not get the most out of any PG. its meant for post men (high and low post) to score and wings to shoot for spacing. the typical triangle PG is tall but i think this is mainly for defense. In addition, the guards should be good shooters - mainly for spacing. Its rare that a triangle PG was good at the PNR or breaking down the defense 1 vs 1.

in fact one of the MAIN staples of the triangle is the "moment of truth". basically it states that once the ball handler passes half court (and is within 3 ft of defender), he then passes it off to start the triangle offense. (ive attached video clips and playbooks to illustrate - but thats the main gist of the moment of truth)

lets say we draft russell or mudiay and theyre actually very good. well would the triangle get the most out of them if theyre first play is to get rid of the ball?

again, im not against taking the best player available. however if the knicks do they must play to his strengths. i think guards now adays are ATTACKING PGs. in fact the league rules are BEGGING for these types of point guards. THe triangle takes the ball out of their hands

http://thetriangleoffense.blogspot.com/2010/05/moment-of-truth.html

thoughts?!

Well, like I said before the triangle is really suppose to be interchangeable so instead Mudiay or Russell(somehow let this happen) you will have Gallo bring the ball up and Mudiay or Russell lag.

callmened wrote:

RonRon wrote:
A Center was not the building piece for Phil Jackson, comparing the Bulls to Lakers with Shaq and then Gasol/Bynum
If Phil Jackson chooses to let him go and Mudiay turns out to be the way better player than Dolan will probably get Isiah Thomas to finish out the roster

Phil Jackson tweaked the Triangle twice with Shaq, Kobe, Horry, Fox, Ron Harper and then with Gasol, Kobe, Odom, Ariza/MWP
The system has proven to work with TOP TIER ALL STARS and I believe if Chris Paul was the PG, there would be a way for him to adjust to the system to fit his strengths as well

excellent point! youre absolutely right - he tweaked that offense for shaq once he arrived.

Even the teams without Jordan were good and he had to tweak it some too. Plus, we all know how the Jordan bulls teams were different outside of Jordan and Pippen.

nixluva wrote:There's really nothing to worry about. If we can take any insight from Phil's bringing in Shved then it's clear that any big guard will have a role even tho they may give up the ball. The ball will work it's way back to the guard who can use his ball skills to create for himself or others. Just don't expect a Rondo style pound the air out of the ball.

true true. folks im still stunned by last night. it never occurred to me that we'd be drafting lower than 3rd. i was expecting to draft a dynamic big man. now i have to study mudiay (and maybe russell if philly doesnt take him). i also need to see how shved worked in this triangle. based on video ive seen on mudiay, my only concern with him is his jumper - but that can be improved

StarksEwing1 wrote:To be honest im so tired of the triangle. Phil didnt want to coach but he still wanted his system to be used. I understand he won with the triangle BUT he also had 3 of the top players of all time

Can't see why it wouldn't be effective with the right players. Yes, I'd like to see some better looks for guys who can shoot the 3, but I don't see why it can't be effective if everyone is a willing participant.

callmened wrote:in watching Mudiay highlights (hey thats all ive got), most of his action comes off PNR. i would hope the triangle adds more PNR action because that seems to be his strneght

Triangle is more give and go but PnR is also easy to get into. It usually takes place on the weak side Pinch Post action. This is the side where Melo usually is and Mudiay would likely be on that side as well. It's not a strict PnR offense but it's in there.

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:To be honest im so tired of the triangle. Phil didnt want to coach but he still wanted his system to be used. I understand he won with the triangle BUT he also had 3 of the top players of all time

It's just a system to organize and keep a flow going. It also is a good system if you have post up players. All the motion creates space and keeps the defense constantly adjusting. It's no better than other ways to play but Phil and his coaches know it and Phil knows how to build a team to run it at a high level. He knows the roles, talent and skills players need to excel in it. It's better than just winging it.

GustavBahler wrote:I could care less about the Triangle because the odds are that it will be a memory within 2 seasons. If we drafted Russell by the grace of the Basketball Gods, would anyone really care how he fits in the triangle?

I think you're severely underestimating what is going on with this franchise. The Triangle isn't going anywhere IMO. The team is being built this summer based on the Triangle as the main system. Our D League team is setup to teach the Triangle with a coach that is a pure Triangle guy. Our scouts are looking for players they feel will thrive in the Triangle. So basically from top to bottom this franchise is being remade as a franchise that has the Triangle at it's core. This is no different than the Spurs who have been able to develop players and then plug them into an established system that is evolving over time but still very much a long term core facet of the franchise.