BigDaddyG wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Porzingis depends on your individual level of risk aversion. He's tall and mobile with a good shooting touch, so there is a chance he could be great. I will bet however that he will be able to be effectively guarded by the 6'8 to 6'10 NBA prototype given his average 1st step/handle/post agility. A lot depends on how his body develops along the strength/quickness tradeoff but, playing the percentages, I pass on Porzingis at #4 without too much hesitation.

I don't see Kris as being as much of risk as Darko and some of the Euros who have been drafted. Kris get major minutes while those other guys usually rode the benches on their club team. Workouts are going to play a huge role here, but I can honestly say that Porzingis displayed above average ball handling and agility in his clips. You don't need super human explosiveness when you can get to the rim in a step. The only real question is his body.

Don't agree with you on the ball handling or agility with respect to the defense he will face at the 4 in the NBA. Also don't agree with you that he'll be getting to the rim in 1 step, unless its through a defender. He has a chance to be net positive if his body allows him to defend and rebound at a passable level. I'm not taking the chance, I'll pass.

You gotta remember that he is a four--with three-point range. Most of his drives will be straight line to the hoop. Pump fake and go. He's not Lebron. You're not going to ask him to run the offense. His dribbling is in line with what Andrei Kirilenko could do coming into the league.

Again it depends on what you expect from the #4 pick in terms of the probability distribution of different levels of success. I agree that he can play a secondary role in the offense as the recipient of passes from a primary offensive threat. But in that case, you need to be at least average defensively and rebounding-wise in order to make a positive contribution. I don't like the odds with him.

I'm willing to make that wager. Initially, he will have to be the fourth or fifth option while he's on the court. But have you seen his block and steal numbers? The kid is already displaying the potential to be a defensive stud, especially from the weak side. At 19, you have to figure he will get stronger and become a bigger factor on the boards.

I'd say you're on but I'm not sure what exactly you want to bet on. I don't think he is worth the 4th pick; maybe our expectations of the pick are divergent in addition to our projections of where he ends up. I think there's a reasonable chance he ends up a starting caliber player. I think there is a low chance he develops into an all-star level player. I'll take you up on a bet that he will never be a defensive force (including rebounding), although its possible his block numbers may be mildly inflated from over-helping. That's not quite enough for me at #4.

codeunknown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Porzingis depends on your individual level of risk aversion. He's tall and mobile with a good shooting touch, so there is a chance he could be great. I will bet however that he will be able to be effectively guarded by the 6'8 to 6'10 NBA prototype given his average 1st step/handle/post agility. A lot depends on how his body develops along the strength/quickness tradeoff but, playing the percentages, I pass on Porzingis at #4 without too much hesitation.

I don't see Kris as being as much of risk as Darko and some of the Euros who have been drafted. Kris get major minutes while those other guys usually rode the benches on their club team. Workouts are going to play a huge role here, but I can honestly say that Porzingis displayed above average ball handling and agility in his clips. You don't need super human explosiveness when you can get to the rim in a step. The only real question is his body.

Don't agree with you on the ball handling or agility with respect to the defense he will face at the 4 in the NBA. Also don't agree with you that he'll be getting to the rim in 1 step, unless its through a defender. He has a chance to be net positive if his body allows him to defend and rebound at a passable level. I'm not taking the chance, I'll pass.

You gotta remember that he is a four--with three-point range. Most of his drives will be straight line to the hoop. Pump fake and go. He's not Lebron. You're not going to ask him to run the offense. His dribbling is in line with what Andrei Kirilenko could do coming into the league.

Again it depends on what you expect from the #4 pick in terms of the probability distribution of different levels of success. I agree that he can play a secondary role in the offense as the recipient of passes from a primary offensive threat. But in that case, you need to be at least average defensively and rebounding-wise in order to make a positive contribution. I don't like the odds with him.

I'm willing to make that wager. Initially, he will have to be the fourth or fifth option while he's on the court. But have you seen his block and steal numbers? The kid is already displaying the potential to be a defensive stud, especially from the weak side. At 19, you have to figure he will get stronger and become a bigger factor on the boards.

I'd say you're on but I'm not sure what exactly you want to bet on. I don't think he is worth the 4th pick; maybe our expectations of the pick are divergent in addition to our projections of where he ends up. I think there's a reasonable chance he ends up a starting caliber player. I think there is a low chance he develops into an all-star level player. I'll take you up on a bet that he will never be a defensive force (including rebounding), although its possible his block numbers may be mildly inflated from over-helping. That's not quite enough for me at #4.

The wager is on Porzingis career lol The truth of the matter is that there's a low chance that The fourth pick, regardless of who it is, will be an all star. I'd consider it a success for any team if they were able to draft a starting caliber seven footer who plays both aides of the ball.his steal and block numbers are impressive enough to suggest that he will have an impact on D. How much of an impact? That depends on how much he fills out.

BigDaddyG wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Porzingis depends on your individual level of risk aversion. He's tall and mobile with a good shooting touch, so there is a chance he could be great. I will bet however that he will be able to be effectively guarded by the 6'8 to 6'10 NBA prototype given his average 1st step/handle/post agility. A lot depends on how his body develops along the strength/quickness tradeoff but, playing the percentages, I pass on Porzingis at #4 without too much hesitation.

I don't see Kris as being as much of risk as Darko and some of the Euros who have been drafted. Kris get major minutes while those other guys usually rode the benches on their club team. Workouts are going to play a huge role here, but I can honestly say that Porzingis displayed above average ball handling and agility in his clips. You don't need super human explosiveness when you can get to the rim in a step. The only real question is his body.

Don't agree with you on the ball handling or agility with respect to the defense he will face at the 4 in the NBA. Also don't agree with you that he'll be getting to the rim in 1 step, unless its through a defender. He has a chance to be net positive if his body allows him to defend and rebound at a passable level. I'm not taking the chance, I'll pass.

You gotta remember that he is a four--with three-point range. Most of his drives will be straight line to the hoop. Pump fake and go. He's not Lebron. You're not going to ask him to run the offense. His dribbling is in line with what Andrei Kirilenko could do coming into the league.

Again it depends on what you expect from the #4 pick in terms of the probability distribution of different levels of success. I agree that he can play a secondary role in the offense as the recipient of passes from a primary offensive threat. But in that case, you need to be at least average defensively and rebounding-wise in order to make a positive contribution. I don't like the odds with him.

I'm willing to make that wager. Initially, he will have to be the fourth or fifth option while he's on the court. But have you seen his block and steal numbers? The kid is already displaying the potential to be a defensive stud, especially from the weak side. At 19, you have to figure he will get stronger and become a bigger factor on the boards.

Bdg-- I'm with you. If we get Monroe I'd be very willing to shove either porzingis or Kaminsky right into unit 1. With Frank I'd look to him spreading the floor very well and to help play a solid brand of d and for porzingis to do the same. I do think Frank could help more initially with his feel for the game but Porzingis who had a great 2 nd half of his year where he shot 46% from 3 and 56% overall and had cumulative stats in that 2 nd half that puts him in a solid discussion for immediate B-) playing time if he can follow through. So it won't be an easy decision between porzingis an Kandinsky. Other variables can come into play thAt may be material is trade down scenarios where maybe we can get Kaminsky an two number 1 picks.

For me I'm down to taking one of Kaminsky or Porzingis everything being equal and I think it is. I don't view the pgs as having more upside. I looked at Fuzaro 6-7 tapes and I think he could be better than both Russell and Mudiay. He's way more athletic than Russell and a better shooter than Mudiay he looks like a better penetrator the both and he can be had in the mid 20s I'm pretty sure Grant could give both a run for the money as well but after seeing Fuzaro I'm hooked.

smackeddog wrote:As good as he looks in the youtube videos, a reminder as to how misleading those highlight videos can be- look at how great they made Ledo look!:

Man, we should draft that Ledo kid.

smackeddog wrote:Once he comes tot he nba, how long until this happens:

Should have been an offensive foul, anyway.

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:People should check this kids release. It's quick and smooth. He's not aiming his shots awkwardly like some big kids. He strokes it. Heck he should be a great fit in the Triangle in the Pau role. Bargs looked good in that role last year and this kid has the makings of that kind of talent. Running the floor, Finishing at the rim and stroking shots from the perimeter. He may not yet be a physical big but his skills should still allow him to have a role in the NBA.

Think about how John Henson, 220 lbs and Giannis Antetokounmpo, 217 lbs have been able to play in this league. If they can do it I see no reason why Kris P can't do it.

Well, I hope Philadelphia agrees with you.

There's no way 76ers take him, as in addition to Noels and Embiid, they also drafted this guy last year:

Philly takes Porzingus, and we have a chance for Russell.

I have to think Philly goes for one of the two guards.

They scouted Porzingus last year, and supposedly hoped he would stay in the draft. I expect they figured he would play another year in Europe, like Saric is pretty much doing. I expect that they took Saric because Porzingus stayed out of the draft.

I think they could take Porzingus if they don't believe Russell and Mudiay are transformative players for their team, but it is hard to believe that one of them won't make an impression. With the way Russell can shoot and distribute I would be stunned if he is not chosen by them, but who knows.

Folks around here will be doing cartwheels if we come out of this draft with Russell, and even though I like Porzingus, I would be extremely happy with Russell, who you have to think wants the challenge of playing in NY.

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:People should check this kids release. It's quick and smooth. He's not aiming his shots awkwardly like some big kids. He strokes it. Heck he should be a great fit in the Triangle in the Pau role. Bargs looked good in that role last year and this kid has the makings of that kind of talent. Running the floor, Finishing at the rim and stroking shots from the perimeter. He may not yet be a physical big but his skills should still allow him to have a role in the NBA.

Think about how John Henson, 220 lbs and Giannis Antetokounmpo, 217 lbs have been able to play in this league. If they can do it I see no reason why Kris P can't do it.

Well, I hope Philadelphia agrees with you.

There's no way 76ers take him, as in addition to Noels and Embiid, they also drafted this guy last year:

BleacherReport has a comparison of both guys. Saric will be available after 2016.

Philly takes Porzingus, and we have a chance for Russell.

I have to think Philly goes for one of the two guards.

They scouted Porzingus last year, and supposedly hoped he would stay in the draft. I expect they figured he would play another year in Europe, like Saric is pretty much doing. I expect that they took Saric because Porzingus stayed out of the draft.

I think they could take Porzingus if they don't believe Russell and Mudiay are transformative players for their team, but it is hard to believe that one of them won't make an impression. With the way Russell can shoot and distribute I would be stunned if he is not chosen by them, but who knows.

Folks around here will be doing cartwheels if we come out of this draft with Russell, and even though I like Porzingus, I would be extremely happy with Russell, who you have to think wants the challenge of playing in NY.

For me Russell= hope
Mudiay= gamble

I think there will be some surprises when the picks come in, and who knows what trades will be made to get this or that players, but who knows. Teams might play it safe and take the guys who have been mentioned as the top 4 picks for most of the year.

I don't know if Russell is necessarily going to be better in the long run than Mudiay. Might be, but who really knows.

I believe that Porzingis, Mario H, Winslow, and yes, Kaminsky, are all part of a group of players who might go at #4.

As I've said many times, we should come away with an extremely good player no matter how things go down, and maybe even get a player we never expected to be there when we pick.

This is the Bleacher Report comparison for Saric and Porzingis, by the way. Forgot to put in the link.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2453188-prospect-vs-player-would-you-rather-have-kristaps-porzingis-or-dario-saric

What If… With the 4th Pick The Knicks Draft: Kristaps Porzingis
BY BRIAN CRONIN - PUBLISHED: 05/28/2015 -

With the order of the draft being settled, the writers of KnickerBlogger thought we’d go over the possible outcomes. But since we were whipping out the ol’ Crystal Ball, we decided to go a little past June & see what fate possibly has to offer…

2015 Draft Order
1 MIN Karl-Anthony Towns
2 LAL Jahlil Okafor
3 PHI D’Angelo Russell
4 NYK Kristaps Porzingis

What happened on Draft Day 2015

Steve Mills, who knows as much about NBA tampering rules as he does about how to avoid sexual harassment in the workplace, already has a deal in place with Greg Monroe before the draft (hence him telling everyone that who the Knicks sign will determine who they draft, while that typically goes in the reverse order), thereby giving Phil Jackson the big butt in the middle that he so greatly desired. With his Andrew Bynum in place in the middle, Jackson decided to try to get his Pau Gasol, well, at least a tall European guy to play the 4. Cue thousands of Knicks fans quickly learning how to spell Porzingis’ name before ultimately deciding to just call him by his nickname, the Zinger.

What will be written on draft day in 2018

As we look into the future, I wish to first look into the past. On June 15, 2014, Kristaps Porzingis withdrew from the 2014 NBA Draft. He was predicted to go roughly at #20 (the Oklahoma City Thunder allegedly promised him that they would take him with the #21 pick, likely with the goal in mind of stashing him overseas for a year or two).

Clearly, Porzingis and his agent, Andy Miller, realized that if Porzingis stayed in Europe and gained strength and muscle, he would go much higher in the 2015 NBA Draft.

Here is Porzingis in 2014…
Here he is in 2015 (both images courtesy of DraftExpress’ profiles on him)…
Here they are side-by-side…

He didn’t add any noticeable muscle or size!! And if you don’t want to go by just those photos, please, by all means, compare videos from him in 2014 to videos of him now. He’s added a little bit of muscle, but just a teensy bit.

So think about that, the one thing he stayed in Europe to do, add muscle and strength, and he didn’t do it!! Do you think that’s because he just said, “Eh, who cares? It doesn’t matter” (which, by the way, would be a problem in and of itself) or do you think the guy just isn’t someone who is going to add much size and muscle? I think it looks increasingly likely that it is the latter. When the guy weighs in at the same bogus 220 pounds (no way is this guy 220) two years in a row,, that is not a good sign.

Therefore, I envision a 2018 where Porzingis is routinely abused on the low post defensively and for rebounds. He also doesn’t attack the rim or pass the ball, so he’s essentially a 7 foot 1 spot-up shooter, or in other words, he’s Ryan Anderson with a good first step…that he doesn’t use because he doesn’t attack the basket (only 2.2 free throws per 40 minutes, because he shies away from contact, which makes sense because he’s a twig). However, as a spot-up shooter, I bet he gets the ball enough times to average a decent amount of pointz per game (also, do note that while he shot 46% from three in EuroCup, he also shot 32% during the Spanish League in twice as many games, so are we even positive that the guy is a great shooter?), so he might very well be the first Knick draft pick in two decades to get an extension from the Knicks. Got to lock down that scoring.

And the Knick fans of 2018 will say, “Okay, but what if Porzingis puts on some weight next year? He’s only 22! There’s still time!” as they look to add a good player with their second-round pick after having dealt their 2018 First Rounder for Kyle Lowry at the trade deadline in 2017 (MASAI!!!).

(NOTE: If you want an optimistic projection, just imagine that he does gain the 25 pounds of muscle and therefore changes his entire game, becoming someone who will go right at guys and not back down to other players. Then he’ll be a star. Think a bigger version of Gallo, that’s what he’d be and that’d be pretty darn impressive).

I think he will get stronger as he ages and he puts some time in the weight room, but the really long guys can frequently compete using their leverage. I don't see him as a center just yet, so he will be more of a help defender. Don't see why he can't hold his own against most power forwards, since the stretch 4 is in vogue, and you don't have many bangers down low. I could see his length neutralizing strength anyway, and working well against a guy like Randolph. His Big problem may end up being his ability to stay with the 4s who like to stand outside and shoot, and maybe drive on occasion.

They actually play the same exact way alley ooops extension J's mid rnage its actually very similar and there is no doubt about it. How much does Gasol weigh there--not much difference than what Porzinigsi weighs and there is no doubt about it.
By the way hes playing in the same ACB finals Porzinigis just did.