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The Case for Porzingis.
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WaltLongmire
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5/20/2015  3:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/20/2015  4:35 PM
As I start to write this, Fran Fraschilla is saying that he believes the Knicks should choose between Mudiay and Porzingis. He just said that he would take Porzingis over Mudiay. He likes Winslow, but sees some limitations, and does not put him up with Mudiay and Porzingis.

He compared his D to that of Kirilenko, and then threw out the Dirk comparison.


Earlier in the day, Jay Bilas also mentioned Porzingis.


He is clearly being looked at by a lot of folks, and Fraschilla said some even say that at some point he might be one of the top 2 players to come from this draft.

Watched more of the videos on him, today, and took more time to look at them because we might be looking at him seriously..

This one is from July of 2014- it is a general analysis of his ability:

This is from December 2014 vs Barcelona, where DraftExpress breaks down what he did in the game.

I'm sure there are other videos to look at, but I have not searched for them yet.

Edit_ here is an analysis from February 2014.

Another one to music- don't like the fanboy video's, but it shows some good stuff

He has a lot of upside, but is already a very polished player who played at a high level in a strong league over in Europe.

He can shoot from the outside, has a midrange game, shows some moves in the post, and he can run. He also looks like he has the lateral movement and length to be a fine defender, and for a guy with his length, he has a decent center of gravity. The videos show him boxing out for rebounds, too.

Still has some things to work on besides his body, and I wish he was a better passer, but he is already a good player, and for now, his length should mitigate the problems cause by his lack of bulk.


Folks would be foolish to discount this guy. Briggs has talked about him during the year, but he seems to be highly regarded by guys who look at college players for a living.

There would be an uproar by some if we took him- and expect to get ripped by some, since many are prejudiced toward Euros, but if he comes in with a little more bulk, and shows the things he's shown in Europe, I think the Knicks will give him a more than serious look.

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BigDaddyG
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5/20/2015  4:24 PM
I wouldn't mind Porzingis either. His steals and blocks are impressive and his first step looks solid. He doesn't have a refined post game yet, but his ball movement is solid. He can hit from mid and long range. You also like the fact that he has the mobility to guard the three point line. He's only 19, so he's probably a sure bet to fill out.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
mreinman
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5/20/2015  4:26 PM
Melo will not ok a euro at this spot
so here is what phil is thinking ....
BRIGGS
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5/20/2015  4:29 PM
My pick for 4 is Kaminsky hopefully to trade fown and pick up Jordan Mickey as well
RIP Crushalot😞
BigDaddyG
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5/20/2015  4:38 PM
mreinman wrote:Melo will not ok a euro at this spot

Why not? Some of Melo's best friends are Euros.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/2101/linas-kleiza-talking-trash-with-carmelo-anthony

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
WaltLongmire
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5/20/2015  4:40 PM
BRIGGS wrote:My pick for 4 is Kaminsky hopefully to trade fown and pick up Jordan Mickey as well

I would not mind Kaminsky, but this guy probably has a higher upside. He might also be able to guard at the 5 (with added bulk),4, and even 3 positions, which gives you some added flexibility down the line.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
BigDaddyG
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5/20/2015  4:41 PM
I'm not sure if the Knicks fans have the patience for us to draft a Euro. Gallo and Mozgov aren't enough to blot out the Fredrik Weiss draft from our collective memories.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
nixluva
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5/20/2015  4:44 PM
I like the kid but Phil isn't going to take such a long term project. This kid is years away from being strong enough to really be effective in the NBA. You can see the talent but Phil is likely to think "let someone else develop him over the next few years". I wouldn't blame him when there are talents in this draft that are much more developed products. This kid is all potential at this point. I don't see this as a great situation for him to develop with all the expectations.
mreinman
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5/20/2015  4:44 PM
knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy

so here is what phil is thinking ....
WaltLongmire
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5/20/2015  4:55 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:I'm not sure if the Knicks fans have the patience for us to draft a Euro. Gallo and Mozgov aren't enough to blot out the Fredrik Weiss draft from our collective memories.

He does have blonde hair, however Latvia is about 1,000 miles from France, but yes, the memory of Weiss is still with us.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
BigDaddyG
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5/20/2015  4:59 PM
nixluva wrote:I like the kid but Phil isn't going to take such a long term project. This kid is years away from being strong enough to really be effective in the NBA. You can see the talent but Phil is likely to think "let someone else develop him over the next few years". I wouldn't blame him when there are talents in this draft that are much more developed products. This kid is all potential at this point. I don't see this as a great situation for him to develop with all the expectations.

Outside of OK4, I don't see any player in this draft ready to contribute next year. Mudiay? Russell? Winslow? All of those guys are to years away. I' m not sure Porzingis is any further from the other prospects we're targeting. Phil needs to trade down if he's too impatient develop talent.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
BigDaddyG
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5/20/2015  5:03 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:I'm not sure if the Knicks fans have the patience for us to draft a Euro. Gallo and Mozgov aren't enough to blot out the Fredrik Weiss draft from our collective memories.

He does have blonde hair, however Latvia is about 1,000 miles from France, but yes, the memory of Weiss is still with us.

Oh, it's Latvia. I thought he was from Latveria, which is where this guy lives.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
WaltLongmire
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5/20/2015  5:08 PM
mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy


Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
mreinman
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5/20/2015  5:14 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy


Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

I absolutely agree.

1st, we are not privy to a lot of valuable info though we think that we are informed
2nd, things will / can definitely change though I don't really think that is the case with the top 3
3rd, what the hell do I know?

All I am doing is making predictions based on the data that I can see. When I say that x is not happening, it is a prediction not a fact

I also find it fun to predict what GM's are going to do based on track record, perception, and all the other vars.

I pick Winslow (or a trade down)

so here is what phil is thinking ....
WaltLongmire
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5/20/2015  5:17 PM
nixluva wrote:I like the kid but Phil isn't going to take such a long term project. This kid is years away from being strong enough to really be effective in the NBA. You can see the talent but Phil is likely to think "let someone else develop him over the next few years". I wouldn't blame him when there are talents in this draft that are much more developed products. This kid is all potential at this point. I don't see this as a great situation for him to develop with all the expectations.

I would have said the same about the strength thing years ago, but PFs today are frequently not as bulky, and this kid has the length to compensate.

If he is in the right position and is willing to use his leverage, he should be able to hold his own.

He might also end up playing at the 3. We don't know how Anthony will progress as a defender. This kid might have the lateral movement that allows him to handle the 3, and there are not many 3's who can post him up, I would think.

You also have to remember that he's played against some very good competition and been competitive. Not sure he is as much of a project as some of the American kids are.

Who knows what Phil will think when we work him out?

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
CrushAlot
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5/20/2015  5:19 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy


Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

Wow. He won't be 19 until August and the draftexpress video had him going against nba level talent. He definitely is someone to consider. I think workouts will reveal a lot with some of these guys. Have to wonder where Mudiay would be ranked if he went to SMU instead of China.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
BRIGGS
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5/20/2015  5:29 PM
I'm good with Kaminsky or mudiay. Either or putting this euro who needs weight needs handle and other nuances. Just so many thingd. I saw his potential 3 months ago he certainly has it so well see
RIP Crushalot😞
mreinman
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5/20/2015  5:30 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy


Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

Wow. He won't be 19 until August and the draftexpress video had him going against nba level talent. He definitely is someone to consider. I think workouts will reveal a lot with some of these guys. Have to wonder where Mudiay would be ranked if he went to SMU instead of China.

maybe a lot lower, who knows.

sometimes the more you get seen the more it hurts you

so here is what phil is thinking ....
WaltLongmire
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5/20/2015  5:33 PM
mreinman wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy


Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

I absolutely agree.

1st, we are not privy to a lot of valuable info though we think that we are informed
2nd, things will / can definitely change though I don't really think that is the case with the top 3
3rd, what the hell do I know?

All I am doing is making predictions based on the data that I can see. When I say that x is not happening, it is a prediction not a fact

I also find it fun to predict what GM's are going to do based on track record, perception, and all the other vars.

I pick Winslow (or a trade down)

The Fraschilla interview really got to me. I was thinking of making this thread before the interview, and then I heard him on ESPN radio. I expected him to say we should take Mudiay, who he likes (and I like, too), and was stunned when he said he thought Porzingis was the better pick in his opinion. He is one of the better guys at evaluating foreign players, and I remember that he was one of the few analysts who said Gallinari was not the soft Euro many said he was pre-draft.

He was also pretty firm about putting Winslow below Mudiay and Porzingis, and thought both of these guys were better picks than Kaminsky, who I also like.

I figure that Russell (if around), Mudiay, Winslow, Porzingis, and Kaminsky are guys the Knicks will seriously think about taking based on workouts.

I will take OK4 or Towns in a heartbeat if they fall, assuming that we've worked them out and not found some unfixable flaws in their respective games, but for the sake argument, and until I hear info or see videos that make me change my mind, I think I'll champion the Latvian for now.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
CrushAlot
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5/20/2015  5:34 PM
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy


Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

Wow. He won't be 19 until August and the draftexpress video had him going against nba level talent. He definitely is someone to consider. I think workouts will reveal a lot with some of these guys. Have to wonder where Mudiay would be ranked if he went to SMU instead of China.

maybe a lot lower, who knows.

sometimes the more you get seen the more it hurts you

Maybe but Brown said he was the most talented point guard he had ever seen at his age. That and comparisons to Kidd, Wall and Westbrook make it seem like he might be ranked higher. Also he was the 2nd or 3rd highest ranked prep player last year coming out of high school depending on what rankings you go by.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
The Case for Porzingis.

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