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Free agency much harder than most fans think
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callmened
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4/27/2015  9:00 PM
that would be a typical knicks move to get lopez. dude had ONE good season (that happens to coincide with his player option yr) then we sign him...he gets fat and remains injury prone. not to mention his lack of defense or rebounding. his career has been mainly disappointing, id need to see more than onegood yr b4 i invest in him long term (and please beleive any player making 17mill and opting out wants a LONG TERM deal) lol
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
AUTOADVERT
s3231
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4/27/2015  9:13 PM
Lopez is a better defender than you think...take a look at his diff % this season. His defensive win shares (not in below link) are also not bad at all for a big man.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201572/tracking/defense/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
callmened
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4/27/2015  9:34 PM
he has improved as well as his rebounding. im assuming its because he actually has two functional feet again.

but my main concern is giving him a long term deal knowing his injury problems

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
CrushAlot
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4/27/2015  9:36 PM
s3231 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
s3231 wrote:I think BRIGGS makes a good call on Brook. I could see him being this FA class's version of Millsap in 2013. Feel like someone will get him on a good deal because of the injury concerns.

When he plays, he is about as impactful as any of the top guys when you look at the advanced stats and he could potentially get significantly less $$$.

The big question mark is his surgically repaired foot. The guy lost weight to get down to 275 lbs. this year. I would think a guy his size playing basketball would put tremendous pressure on his feet. His last surgery was to save his career and he had to re-learn how to walk. I like Brook's game a lot. I just don't know if he is worth the risk with his injury history.

Definitely a risk and I think that's why he won't get the max for 5 seasons. That injury risk could also lead to teams undervaluing him though and someone could swoop in and get him at great value.

He's played almost full seasons in 5 of his 7 years and when he does play, he is one of the better big men out there....guys at that level are difficult to get without giving something substantial on return.

Agree. He looks great tonight.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
s3231
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4/27/2015  9:38 PM
Yeah, him and Carroll both!
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
BRIGGS
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4/27/2015  9:51 PM
s3231 wrote:Yeah, him and Carroll both!

If youre going to do free agency get two players who are going to help the team. Im also a big fans of Shabazz Muhammed.

The way I look at it

2 premium free agents(and be realistic about it)
1 max 1 7-8mm $ thats it
Hope we get 1 of Okafor or Towns if not take the BPA OR look for a multi asset trade involving young players and picks.
Resign Shveyd and Cole A by cutting and stretching Calderon
Find a way to get a second low 1 or high 2 and get an additional athletic PF
find two players in UDFA or the d league that make sense.
I would look to see if a few young players like Muscala Taveras Muhammed etc.. are available and see what the cost might be.

RIP Crushalot😞
callmened
Posts: 24448
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4/27/2015  9:58 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
s3231 wrote:Yeah, him and Carroll both!

If youre going to do free agency get two players who are going to help the team. Im also a big fans of Shabazz Muhammed.

The way I look at it

2 premium free agents(and be realistic about it)
1 max 1 7-8mm $ thats it
Hope we get 1 of Okafor or Towns if not take the BPA OR look for a multi asset trade involving young players and picks.
Resign Shveyd and Cole A by cutting and stretching Calderon
Find a way to get a second low 1 or high 2 and get an additional athletic PF
find two players in UDFA or the d league that make sense.
I would look to see if a few young players like Muscala Taveras Muhammed etc.. are available and see what the cost might be.

agreed

- one max at 17mill and one mid range salary at 5-8mill
- i really hope we get towns...would settle for okafor. these rest i dont have a preference. its a notch down after that
- i love muscala and bazzie muhammed (even thought that injury makes me nervous)
- defintely make trades if possible to get draft picks or more cap space

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
Nalod
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4/27/2015  10:36 PM
Bronze can stay and make 16mil.
I think he goes longer term.
His injury problems, whats the medical prognosis for longer term?
I don't know.
MS
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4/27/2015  10:57 PM
I think you do whatever you can to get Carroll and Crowder, those guys at the 2-3 and melo at the 4 with a draft pick would be pretty awesome to watch. High intensity and high IQ guys. Lopez does score the ball pretty easily and that would be a nice signing, he is highly underutilized in BK. If he stays healthy that would be a great signing. But, the injury history scares a bit.

I don't understand why guys think Green is so special. He's a good player I simply made the point that someone is going to overpay like GS did for Fisher for pedigree. You have four dynamic talents that open up the game for essentially a spot up three point shooter. He is a nice player in a great system. Not worth 5MM, not worth 6MM. On any other team he's a 3-4MM player.

2015 Playoffs
6.5pts 3.0rbs 2ass on 29% shooting
BRIGGS
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4/29/2015  3:53 AM
Makes no sense for any team to not sign their own premium free agent. This free agency is much different than a normal one I doubt there is much movement at all
RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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4/29/2015  10:25 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Makes no sense for any team to not sign their own premium free agent. This free agency is much different than a normal one I doubt there is much movement at all

I think the Knicks would be wise to wait for the big fish until 2016. I think Phil already realizes this - teams can talk to agents to get a read on the market. I think a lot of folks are going to stay home til 2016. Phil has even said he thinks they need to make moves to set themselves up for big signings in 2016. I agree with his take on this.

Hopefully draft Okafor or Towns, get some second rounders or undrafted FA and then try to make some value signings this summer and keep flexibility for 2016 and maybe 2017.

If we have a good team here, it'll be easier for a big FA to see coming here as the final piece of a puzzle rather than the first or second building block. Again, if you look at how Phil is talking, I think he knows this. He's repeatedly said we won't get a max guy this summer and they want to maintain flexibility for 2016.

I could still see signing Monroe as signing a building block type player in Phil's mind. I don't love the guy, but as we've said, a $15M contract for a 16ppg 10rpg PF when the cap is $90M is going to be a good deal and likely pretty easy to trade if Monroe doesn't make sense here. I'm sort of resigned to the plan from Phil being Monroe and Towns/Okafor/Russell and some little pieces and then wait for 2016 to make the big move, whatever that may be.

¿ △ ?
fishmike
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4/29/2015  1:25 PM
crzymdups wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Makes no sense for any team to not sign their own premium free agent. This free agency is much different than a normal one I doubt there is much movement at all

I think the Knicks would be wise to wait for the big fish until 2016. I think Phil already realizes this - teams can talk to agents to get a read on the market. I think a lot of folks are going to stay home til 2016. Phil has even said he thinks they need to make moves to set themselves up for big signings in 2016. I agree with his take on this.

Hopefully draft Okafor or Towns, get some second rounders or undrafted FA and then try to make some value signings this summer and keep flexibility for 2016 and maybe 2017.

If we have a good team here, it'll be easier for a big FA to see coming here as the final piece of a puzzle rather than the first or second building block. Again, if you look at how Phil is talking, I think he knows this. He's repeatedly said we won't get a max guy this summer and they want to maintain flexibility for 2016.

I could still see signing Monroe as signing a building block type player in Phil's mind. I don't love the guy, but as we've said, a $15M contract for a 16ppg 10rpg PF when the cap is $90M is going to be a good deal and likely pretty easy to trade if Monroe doesn't make sense here. I'm sort of resigned to the plan from Phil being Monroe and Towns/Okafor/Russell and some little pieces and then wait for 2016 to make the big move, whatever that may be.

No problem with this either. Monroe is a good player. Not great, good. Does a lot of nice things, struggles with some others. At 25 we will be hard pressed to find better value in the frontcourt
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
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4/29/2015  2:18 PM
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Makes no sense for any team to not sign their own premium free agent. This free agency is much different than a normal one I doubt there is much movement at all

I think the Knicks would be wise to wait for the big fish until 2016. I think Phil already realizes this - teams can talk to agents to get a read on the market. I think a lot of folks are going to stay home til 2016. Phil has even said he thinks they need to make moves to set themselves up for big signings in 2016. I agree with his take on this.

Hopefully draft Okafor or Towns, get some second rounders or undrafted FA and then try to make some value signings this summer and keep flexibility for 2016 and maybe 2017.

If we have a good team here, it'll be easier for a big FA to see coming here as the final piece of a puzzle rather than the first or second building block. Again, if you look at how Phil is talking, I think he knows this. He's repeatedly said we won't get a max guy this summer and they want to maintain flexibility for 2016.

I could still see signing Monroe as signing a building block type player in Phil's mind. I don't love the guy, but as we've said, a $15M contract for a 16ppg 10rpg PF when the cap is $90M is going to be a good deal and likely pretty easy to trade if Monroe doesn't make sense here. I'm sort of resigned to the plan from Phil being Monroe and Towns/Okafor/Russell and some little pieces and then wait for 2016 to make the big move, whatever that may be.

No problem with this either. Monroe is a good player. Not great, good. Does a lot of nice things, struggles with some others. At 25 we will be hard pressed to find better value in the frontcourt

I think with regard to bigs who have high minutes and usage it helps to put Monroe in perspective in terms with how he compares to the other top PF Free Agents. I think Monroe is better than people actually think and in our system I think he'll be even better than he's been so far.


Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
4   Bran. Wright  PF  27  TOT  75  1449	 20.4  .660  .008  .309  9.6   14.7  12.1  4.4   1.7  5.1  7.6   13.6  4.3  1.8  6.1   .202    2.0
6   M. Muscala	  PF  23  ATL  40  502   18.0  .608  .146  .166  12.2  14.8  13.5  8.0   1.6  3.2  11.5  16.7  1.2  0.7  1.9   .179    0.5
7   P. Millsap	  PF  29  ATL  73  2390  20.1  .565  .232  .362  6.9   20.0  13.6  15.4  2.8  2.4  13.3  23.8  4.0  4.3  8.3   .167    3.7
9   L. Aldridge	  PF  29  POR  71  2512  22.8  .528  .074  .256  7.7   22.9  15.5  9.2   1.0  1.9  7.2   30.2  4.9  3.7  8.6   .165    1.4
10  K. Love	  PF  26  CLE  75  2532  18.8  .562  .412  .337  6.5   26.3  16.6  10.7  1.0  1.2  10.0  21.7  5.8  2.9  8.7   .165    2.5
17  G. Monroe	  PF  24  DET  69  2137  21.2  .549  .000  .394  11.2  25.1  17.9  11.7  1.9  1.3  13.0  23.9  4.0  2.8  6.8   .153    2.1
21  Tri Thompson  PF  23  CLE  82  2194  15.6  .580  .000  .508  14.5  19.7  17.2  2.7   0.8  2.2  12.2  14.0  4.7  2.1  6.8   .148    0.8
24  Jon. Jerebko  PF  27  TOT  75  1230  15.0  .549  .369  .174  8.0   17.2  12.5  9.0   1.9  1.1  9.7   16.2  2.0  1.4  3.5   .135    0.9
25  K. Middleton  PF  23  MIL  79  2378  15.6  .563  .308  .180  2.3   14.3  8.4   12.7  2.6  0.4  10.8  19.9  3.2  3.5  6.7   .135    2.0
27  Brandon Bass  PF  29  BOS  82  1929  16.3  .557  .047  .313  7.8   14.9  11.3  8.6   1.1  1.3  9.6   19.5  3.4  1.9  5.3   .132    0.7
29  Lavoy Allen   PF  25  IND  63  1070  14.9  .493  .000  .157  12.8  20.5  16.7  10.9  0.7  3.1  11.1  15.2  1.3  1.6  2.8   .127    0.8
30  Amir Johnson  PF  27  TOR  75  1979  15.4  .603  .089  .249  9.3   17.3  13.3  9.4   1.1  2.4  16.0  15.7  3.5  1.6  5.1   .124    1.9
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
20  C. Joseph	  PG  23  SAS  79  1444  15.5  .564  .107  .348  3.5   11.4  7.5   19.7  1.6  0.9  12.4  17.0  2.7  1.8  4.5   .149    1.0
31  Goran Dragic  PG  28  TOT  78  2640  17.4  .577  .258  .234  3.5   8.2   5.9   22.8  1.5  0.5  13.5  21.8  5.4  1.4  6.8   .123    2.1
38  Bran Knight	  PG  23  TOT  63  2035  17.1  .543  .361  .251  1.6   12.0  6.8   27.4  2.3  0.4  16.1  25.9  2.0  2.5  4.5   .106    1.6
39  Reg Jackson	  PG  24  TOT  77  2268  17.2  .511  .242  .219  2.6   12.9  7.8   34.8  1.4  0.3  14.6  24.6  3.3  1.7  4.9   .104    1.6
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
2   Jimmy Butler  SG  25  CHI  65  2513  21.3  .583  .212  .508  5.1   11.2  8.2   14.4  2.3  1.0  7.7   21.6  8.2  3.0  11.2  .214    4.2
11  Danny Green	  SG  27  SAS  81  2312  16.5  .596  .619  .172  2.7   13.9  8.4   10.3  2.2  2.8  10.5  17.5  4.0  3.9  7.8   .163    4.1
18  A. Morrow	  SG  29  OKC  74  1806  14.8  .604  .528  .145  2.4   9.1   5.8   5.2   1.5  0.5  5.5   16.5  4.4  1.2  5.7   .151    1.2
22  W. Matthews	  SG  28  POR  60  2024  16.1  .586  .592  .193  2.1   9.5   5.9   10.8  1.9  0.4  9.0   19.8  4.0  2.2  6.2   .147    3.0
26  Alexey Shved  SG  26  TOT  42  767   19.5  .541  .415  .448  3.3   11.7  7.3   25.7  2.0  0.6  10.7  26.3  1.7  0.5  2.2   .135    0.5
40  Mar Belinelli SG  28  SAS  62  1388  12.4  .553  .489  .211  2.2   10.5  6.4   10.3  1.1  0.2  10.6  18.8  1.5  1.4  2.9   .100    0.5
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
1   DeA. Jordan	  C   26  LAC  82  2820  21.0  .638  .007  .882  16.2  32.4  24.5  3.2   1.5  5.4  12.8  13.6  7.4  5.4  12.8  .217    4.3
5   M. Gasol	  C   30  MEM  81  2687  21.7  .558  .016  .410  4.9   21.8  13.4  19.7  1.4  4.0  12.2  24.6  5.5  4.7  10.2  .182    4.6
8   A. Baynes	  C   28  SAS  70  1122  15.9  .618  .012  .318  11.2  20.7  16.1  4.9   0.7  1.5  14.8  17.8  2.3  1.6  3.9   .166    0.3
13  A. Ajinca	  C   26  NOP  68  957   19.9  .595  .000  .301  12.4  25.0  18.7  8.2   1.2  4.0  15.6  21.1  1.9  1.2  3.2   .159    0.5
14  Brook Lopez	  C   26  BRK  72  2100  22.7  .558  .010  .278  11.5  17.1  14.3  4.5   1.1  4.8  8.6   26.3  4.7  2.2  7.0   .159    1.1
15  B. Biyombo	  C   22  CHO  64  1243  15.2  .578  .000  .941  13.7  22.6  18.0  2.0   0.7  6.3  16.5  11.6  1.8  2.2  4.0   .155    0.5
19  R. Lopez	  C   26  POR  59  1638  16.2  .574  .002  .291  12.7  13.1  12.9  5.1   0.5  3.7  12.9  15.5  3.2  1.9  5.1   .150    1.7
23  Enes Kanter	  C   22  TOT  75  2135  20.3  .564  .048  .252  14.6  20.5  17.6  4.8   0.9  1.1  12.3  24.7  4.3  2.1  6.4   .145   -0.1
32  Joel Freeland C   27  POR  48  617   12.2  .522  .000  .166  11.0  21.9  16.6  3.8   0.7  2.7  12.4  13.4  0.6  0.9  1.6   .122    0.0
34  Omer Asik	  C   28  NOP  76  1982  15.5  .545  .000  .546  14.0  28.8  21.4  5.4   0.8  2.1  15.7  14.0  2.8  2.2  5.0   .120    0.6
35  Kosta Koufos  C   25  MEM  81  1348  14.2  .530  .000  .237  10.3  25.8  18.1  4.3   1.1  3.9  14.9  15.8  0.8  2.5  3.3   .118    0.2
37  Cole Aldrich  C   26  NYK  61  976   18.1  .513  .000  .213  11.6  28.9  20.0  13.3  2.0  5.5  15.2  18.3  0.8  1.4  2.2   .107    0.7
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
3   Kawhi Leonard SF  23  SAS  64  2033  22.0  .567  .234  .307  4.8   20.6  12.9  13.0  3.7  1.8  9.4   23.0  4.2  4.4  8.6   .204    4.1
12  Dray. Green	  SF  24  GSW  79  2490  16.4  .540  .430  .261  5.1   22.4  14.0  16.1  2.4  2.9  13.5  17.2  3.3  5.2  8.5   .163    4.4
16  D. Carroll	  SF  28  ATL  70  2189  15.9  .603  .466  .277  5.3   13.8  9.7   8.3   2.2  0.7  9.3   16.9  4.3  2.8  7.0   .154    2.7
28  Dorell Wright SF  29  POR  48  592   13.4  .525  .568  .221  2.6   17.2  10.0  10.2  1.7  1.3  7.9   17.1  0.7  0.8  1.6   .128    0.4
33  Tha Sefolosha SF  30  ATL  52  976   13.8  .506  .313  .233  6.4   19.3  13.1  11.2  2.8  1.8  12.2  14.6  0.8  1.7  2.5   .121    0.8
36  Jae Crowder   SF  24  TOT  82  1647  13.9  .517  .382  .259  4.7   14.9  9.7   8.6   2.2  1.2  7.5   17.5  1.9  2.0  3.9   .113    1.1
41  Tobias Harris SF  22  ORL  68  2369  16.7  .551  .252  .258  3.4   17.3  10.3  8.8   1.5  1.2  9.8   22.5  3.0  1.8  4.8   .098    1.0
Nalod
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4/29/2015  2:37 PM
Grab and expiring and a draft pick. Pick well and its worth it! Pick bad and you only wasted time. The cap comes back around.
Cap space can be used for lots of things.
fishmike
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4/29/2015  2:54 PM
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Makes no sense for any team to not sign their own premium free agent. This free agency is much different than a normal one I doubt there is much movement at all

I think the Knicks would be wise to wait for the big fish until 2016. I think Phil already realizes this - teams can talk to agents to get a read on the market. I think a lot of folks are going to stay home til 2016. Phil has even said he thinks they need to make moves to set themselves up for big signings in 2016. I agree with his take on this.

Hopefully draft Okafor or Towns, get some second rounders or undrafted FA and then try to make some value signings this summer and keep flexibility for 2016 and maybe 2017.

If we have a good team here, it'll be easier for a big FA to see coming here as the final piece of a puzzle rather than the first or second building block. Again, if you look at how Phil is talking, I think he knows this. He's repeatedly said we won't get a max guy this summer and they want to maintain flexibility for 2016.

I could still see signing Monroe as signing a building block type player in Phil's mind. I don't love the guy, but as we've said, a $15M contract for a 16ppg 10rpg PF when the cap is $90M is going to be a good deal and likely pretty easy to trade if Monroe doesn't make sense here. I'm sort of resigned to the plan from Phil being Monroe and Towns/Okafor/Russell and some little pieces and then wait for 2016 to make the big move, whatever that may be.

No problem with this either. Monroe is a good player. Not great, good. Does a lot of nice things, struggles with some others. At 25 we will be hard pressed to find better value in the frontcourt

I think with regard to bigs who have high minutes and usage it helps to put Monroe in perspective in terms with how he compares to the other top PF Free Agents. I think Monroe is better than people actually think and in our system I think he'll be even better than he's been so far.


Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
4   Bran. Wright  PF  27  TOT  75  1449	 20.4  .660  .008  .309  9.6   14.7  12.1  4.4   1.7  5.1  7.6   13.6  4.3  1.8  6.1   .202    2.0
6   M. Muscala	  PF  23  ATL  40  502   18.0  .608  .146  .166  12.2  14.8  13.5  8.0   1.6  3.2  11.5  16.7  1.2  0.7  1.9   .179    0.5
7   P. Millsap	  PF  29  ATL  73  2390  20.1  .565  .232  .362  6.9   20.0  13.6  15.4  2.8  2.4  13.3  23.8  4.0  4.3  8.3   .167    3.7
9   L. Aldridge	  PF  29  POR  71  2512  22.8  .528  .074  .256  7.7   22.9  15.5  9.2   1.0  1.9  7.2   30.2  4.9  3.7  8.6   .165    1.4
10  K. Love	  PF  26  CLE  75  2532  18.8  .562  .412  .337  6.5   26.3  16.6  10.7  1.0  1.2  10.0  21.7  5.8  2.9  8.7   .165    2.5
17  G. Monroe	  PF  24  DET  69  2137  21.2  .549  .000  .394  11.2  25.1  17.9  11.7  1.9  1.3  13.0  23.9  4.0  2.8  6.8   .153    2.1
21  Tri Thompson  PF  23  CLE  82  2194  15.6  .580  .000  .508  14.5  19.7  17.2  2.7   0.8  2.2  12.2  14.0  4.7  2.1  6.8   .148    0.8
24  Jon. Jerebko  PF  27  TOT  75  1230  15.0  .549  .369  .174  8.0   17.2  12.5  9.0   1.9  1.1  9.7   16.2  2.0  1.4  3.5   .135    0.9
25  K. Middleton  PF  23  MIL  79  2378  15.6  .563  .308  .180  2.3   14.3  8.4   12.7  2.6  0.4  10.8  19.9  3.2  3.5  6.7   .135    2.0
27  Brandon Bass  PF  29  BOS  82  1929  16.3  .557  .047  .313  7.8   14.9  11.3  8.6   1.1  1.3  9.6   19.5  3.4  1.9  5.3   .132    0.7
29  Lavoy Allen   PF  25  IND  63  1070  14.9  .493  .000  .157  12.8  20.5  16.7  10.9  0.7  3.1  11.1  15.2  1.3  1.6  2.8   .127    0.8
30  Amir Johnson  PF  27  TOR  75  1979  15.4  .603  .089  .249  9.3   17.3  13.3  9.4   1.1  2.4  16.0  15.7  3.5  1.6  5.1   .124    1.9
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
20  C. Joseph	  PG  23  SAS  79  1444  15.5  .564  .107  .348  3.5   11.4  7.5   19.7  1.6  0.9  12.4  17.0  2.7  1.8  4.5   .149    1.0
31  Goran Dragic  PG  28  TOT  78  2640  17.4  .577  .258  .234  3.5   8.2   5.9   22.8  1.5  0.5  13.5  21.8  5.4  1.4  6.8   .123    2.1
38  Bran Knight	  PG  23  TOT  63  2035  17.1  .543  .361  .251  1.6   12.0  6.8   27.4  2.3  0.4  16.1  25.9  2.0  2.5  4.5   .106    1.6
39  Reg Jackson	  PG  24  TOT  77  2268  17.2  .511  .242  .219  2.6   12.9  7.8   34.8  1.4  0.3  14.6  24.6  3.3  1.7  4.9   .104    1.6
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
2   Jimmy Butler  SG  25  CHI  65  2513  21.3  .583  .212  .508  5.1   11.2  8.2   14.4  2.3  1.0  7.7   21.6  8.2  3.0  11.2  .214    4.2
11  Danny Green	  SG  27  SAS  81  2312  16.5  .596  .619  .172  2.7   13.9  8.4   10.3  2.2  2.8  10.5  17.5  4.0  3.9  7.8   .163    4.1
18  A. Morrow	  SG  29  OKC  74  1806  14.8  .604  .528  .145  2.4   9.1   5.8   5.2   1.5  0.5  5.5   16.5  4.4  1.2  5.7   .151    1.2
22  W. Matthews	  SG  28  POR  60  2024  16.1  .586  .592  .193  2.1   9.5   5.9   10.8  1.9  0.4  9.0   19.8  4.0  2.2  6.2   .147    3.0
26  Alexey Shved  SG  26  TOT  42  767   19.5  .541  .415  .448  3.3   11.7  7.3   25.7  2.0  0.6  10.7  26.3  1.7  0.5  2.2   .135    0.5
40  Mar Belinelli SG  28  SAS  62  1388  12.4  .553  .489  .211  2.2   10.5  6.4   10.3  1.1  0.2  10.6  18.8  1.5  1.4  2.9   .100    0.5
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
1   DeA. Jordan	  C   26  LAC  82  2820  21.0  .638  .007  .882  16.2  32.4  24.5  3.2   1.5  5.4  12.8  13.6  7.4  5.4  12.8  .217    4.3
5   M. Gasol	  C   30  MEM  81  2687  21.7  .558  .016  .410  4.9   21.8  13.4  19.7  1.4  4.0  12.2  24.6  5.5  4.7  10.2  .182    4.6
8   A. Baynes	  C   28  SAS  70  1122  15.9  .618  .012  .318  11.2  20.7  16.1  4.9   0.7  1.5  14.8  17.8  2.3  1.6  3.9   .166    0.3
13  A. Ajinca	  C   26  NOP  68  957   19.9  .595  .000  .301  12.4  25.0  18.7  8.2   1.2  4.0  15.6  21.1  1.9  1.2  3.2   .159    0.5
14  Brook Lopez	  C   26  BRK  72  2100  22.7  .558  .010  .278  11.5  17.1  14.3  4.5   1.1  4.8  8.6   26.3  4.7  2.2  7.0   .159    1.1
15  B. Biyombo	  C   22  CHO  64  1243  15.2  .578  .000  .941  13.7  22.6  18.0  2.0   0.7  6.3  16.5  11.6  1.8  2.2  4.0   .155    0.5
19  R. Lopez	  C   26  POR  59  1638  16.2  .574  .002  .291  12.7  13.1  12.9  5.1   0.5  3.7  12.9  15.5  3.2  1.9  5.1   .150    1.7
23  Enes Kanter	  C   22  TOT  75  2135  20.3  .564  .048  .252  14.6  20.5  17.6  4.8   0.9  1.1  12.3  24.7  4.3  2.1  6.4   .145   -0.1
32  Joel Freeland C   27  POR  48  617   12.2  .522  .000  .166  11.0  21.9  16.6  3.8   0.7  2.7  12.4  13.4  0.6  0.9  1.6   .122    0.0
34  Omer Asik	  C   28  NOP  76  1982  15.5  .545  .000  .546  14.0  28.8  21.4  5.4   0.8  2.1  15.7  14.0  2.8  2.2  5.0   .120    0.6
35  Kosta Koufos  C   25  MEM  81  1348  14.2  .530  .000  .237  10.3  25.8  18.1  4.3   1.1  3.9  14.9  15.8  0.8  2.5  3.3   .118    0.2
37  Cole Aldrich  C   26  NYK  61  976   18.1  .513  .000  .213  11.6  28.9  20.0  13.3  2.0  5.5  15.2  18.3  0.8  1.4  2.2   .107    0.7
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
3   Kawhi Leonard SF  23  SAS  64  2033  22.0  .567  .234  .307  4.8   20.6  12.9  13.0  3.7  1.8  9.4   23.0  4.2  4.4  8.6   .204    4.1
12  Dray. Green	  SF  24  GSW  79  2490  16.4  .540  .430  .261  5.1   22.4  14.0  16.1  2.4  2.9  13.5  17.2  3.3  5.2  8.5   .163    4.4
16  D. Carroll	  SF  28  ATL  70  2189  15.9  .603  .466  .277  5.3   13.8  9.7   8.3   2.2  0.7  9.3   16.9  4.3  2.8  7.0   .154    2.7
28  Dorell Wright SF  29  POR  48  592   13.4  .525  .568  .221  2.6   17.2  10.0  10.2  1.7  1.3  7.9   17.1  0.7  0.8  1.6   .128    0.4
33  Tha Sefolosha SF  30  ATL  52  976   13.8  .506  .313  .233  6.4   19.3  13.1  11.2  2.8  1.8  12.2  14.6  0.8  1.7  2.5   .121    0.8
36  Jae Crowder   SF  24  TOT  82  1647  13.9  .517  .382  .259  4.7   14.9  9.7   8.6   2.2  1.2  7.5   17.5  1.9  2.0  3.9   .113    1.1
41  Tobias Harris SF  22  ORL  68  2369  16.7  .551  .252  .258  3.4   17.3  10.3  8.8   1.5  1.2  9.8   22.5  3.0  1.8  4.8   .098    1.0
Maybe maybe not. Far more impressive than any stat you can show me on Monroe is your unequaled use of the code functionality.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
Posts: 56258
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USA
4/29/2015  3:42 PM
fishmike wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Makes no sense for any team to not sign their own premium free agent. This free agency is much different than a normal one I doubt there is much movement at all

I think the Knicks would be wise to wait for the big fish until 2016. I think Phil already realizes this - teams can talk to agents to get a read on the market. I think a lot of folks are going to stay home til 2016. Phil has even said he thinks they need to make moves to set themselves up for big signings in 2016. I agree with his take on this.

Hopefully draft Okafor or Towns, get some second rounders or undrafted FA and then try to make some value signings this summer and keep flexibility for 2016 and maybe 2017.

If we have a good team here, it'll be easier for a big FA to see coming here as the final piece of a puzzle rather than the first or second building block. Again, if you look at how Phil is talking, I think he knows this. He's repeatedly said we won't get a max guy this summer and they want to maintain flexibility for 2016.

I could still see signing Monroe as signing a building block type player in Phil's mind. I don't love the guy, but as we've said, a $15M contract for a 16ppg 10rpg PF when the cap is $90M is going to be a good deal and likely pretty easy to trade if Monroe doesn't make sense here. I'm sort of resigned to the plan from Phil being Monroe and Towns/Okafor/Russell and some little pieces and then wait for 2016 to make the big move, whatever that may be.

No problem with this either. Monroe is a good player. Not great, good. Does a lot of nice things, struggles with some others. At 25 we will be hard pressed to find better value in the frontcourt

I think with regard to bigs who have high minutes and usage it helps to put Monroe in perspective in terms with how he compares to the other top PF Free Agents. I think Monroe is better than people actually think and in our system I think he'll be even better than he's been so far.


Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
4   Bran. Wright  PF  27  TOT  75  1449	 20.4  .660  .008  .309  9.6   14.7  12.1  4.4   1.7  5.1  7.6   13.6  4.3  1.8  6.1   .202    2.0
6   M. Muscala	  PF  23  ATL  40  502   18.0  .608  .146  .166  12.2  14.8  13.5  8.0   1.6  3.2  11.5  16.7  1.2  0.7  1.9   .179    0.5
7   P. Millsap	  PF  29  ATL  73  2390  20.1  .565  .232  .362  6.9   20.0  13.6  15.4  2.8  2.4  13.3  23.8  4.0  4.3  8.3   .167    3.7
9   L. Aldridge	  PF  29  POR  71  2512  22.8  .528  .074  .256  7.7   22.9  15.5  9.2   1.0  1.9  7.2   30.2  4.9  3.7  8.6   .165    1.4
10  K. Love	  PF  26  CLE  75  2532  18.8  .562  .412  .337  6.5   26.3  16.6  10.7  1.0  1.2  10.0  21.7  5.8  2.9  8.7   .165    2.5
17  G. Monroe	  PF  24  DET  69  2137  21.2  .549  .000  .394  11.2  25.1  17.9  11.7  1.9  1.3  13.0  23.9  4.0  2.8  6.8   .153    2.1
21  Tri Thompson  PF  23  CLE  82  2194  15.6  .580  .000  .508  14.5  19.7  17.2  2.7   0.8  2.2  12.2  14.0  4.7  2.1  6.8   .148    0.8
24  Jon. Jerebko  PF  27  TOT  75  1230  15.0  .549  .369  .174  8.0   17.2  12.5  9.0   1.9  1.1  9.7   16.2  2.0  1.4  3.5   .135    0.9
25  K. Middleton  PF  23  MIL  79  2378  15.6  .563  .308  .180  2.3   14.3  8.4   12.7  2.6  0.4  10.8  19.9  3.2  3.5  6.7   .135    2.0
27  Brandon Bass  PF  29  BOS  82  1929  16.3  .557  .047  .313  7.8   14.9  11.3  8.6   1.1  1.3  9.6   19.5  3.4  1.9  5.3   .132    0.7
29  Lavoy Allen   PF  25  IND  63  1070  14.9  .493  .000  .157  12.8  20.5  16.7  10.9  0.7  3.1  11.1  15.2  1.3  1.6  2.8   .127    0.8
30  Amir Johnson  PF  27  TOR  75  1979  15.4  .603  .089  .249  9.3   17.3  13.3  9.4   1.1  2.4  16.0  15.7  3.5  1.6  5.1   .124    1.9
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
20  C. Joseph	  PG  23  SAS  79  1444  15.5  .564  .107  .348  3.5   11.4  7.5   19.7  1.6  0.9  12.4  17.0  2.7  1.8  4.5   .149    1.0
31  Goran Dragic  PG  28  TOT  78  2640  17.4  .577  .258  .234  3.5   8.2   5.9   22.8  1.5  0.5  13.5  21.8  5.4  1.4  6.8   .123    2.1
38  Bran Knight	  PG  23  TOT  63  2035  17.1  .543  .361  .251  1.6   12.0  6.8   27.4  2.3  0.4  16.1  25.9  2.0  2.5  4.5   .106    1.6
39  Reg Jackson	  PG  24  TOT  77  2268  17.2  .511  .242  .219  2.6   12.9  7.8   34.8  1.4  0.3  14.6  24.6  3.3  1.7  4.9   .104    1.6
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
2   Jimmy Butler  SG  25  CHI  65  2513  21.3  .583  .212  .508  5.1   11.2  8.2   14.4  2.3  1.0  7.7   21.6  8.2  3.0  11.2  .214    4.2
11  Danny Green	  SG  27  SAS  81  2312  16.5  .596  .619  .172  2.7   13.9  8.4   10.3  2.2  2.8  10.5  17.5  4.0  3.9  7.8   .163    4.1
18  A. Morrow	  SG  29  OKC  74  1806  14.8  .604  .528  .145  2.4   9.1   5.8   5.2   1.5  0.5  5.5   16.5  4.4  1.2  5.7   .151    1.2
22  W. Matthews	  SG  28  POR  60  2024  16.1  .586  .592  .193  2.1   9.5   5.9   10.8  1.9  0.4  9.0   19.8  4.0  2.2  6.2   .147    3.0
26  Alexey Shved  SG  26  TOT  42  767   19.5  .541  .415  .448  3.3   11.7  7.3   25.7  2.0  0.6  10.7  26.3  1.7  0.5  2.2   .135    0.5
40  Mar Belinelli SG  28  SAS  62  1388  12.4  .553  .489  .211  2.2   10.5  6.4   10.3  1.1  0.2  10.6  18.8  1.5  1.4  2.9   .100    0.5
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
1   DeA. Jordan	  C   26  LAC  82  2820  21.0  .638  .007  .882  16.2  32.4  24.5  3.2   1.5  5.4  12.8  13.6  7.4  5.4  12.8  .217    4.3
5   M. Gasol	  C   30  MEM  81  2687  21.7  .558  .016  .410  4.9   21.8  13.4  19.7  1.4  4.0  12.2  24.6  5.5  4.7  10.2  .182    4.6
8   A. Baynes	  C   28  SAS  70  1122  15.9  .618  .012  .318  11.2  20.7  16.1  4.9   0.7  1.5  14.8  17.8  2.3  1.6  3.9   .166    0.3
13  A. Ajinca	  C   26  NOP  68  957   19.9  .595  .000  .301  12.4  25.0  18.7  8.2   1.2  4.0  15.6  21.1  1.9  1.2  3.2   .159    0.5
14  Brook Lopez	  C   26  BRK  72  2100  22.7  .558  .010  .278  11.5  17.1  14.3  4.5   1.1  4.8  8.6   26.3  4.7  2.2  7.0   .159    1.1
15  B. Biyombo	  C   22  CHO  64  1243  15.2  .578  .000  .941  13.7  22.6  18.0  2.0   0.7  6.3  16.5  11.6  1.8  2.2  4.0   .155    0.5
19  R. Lopez	  C   26  POR  59  1638  16.2  .574  .002  .291  12.7  13.1  12.9  5.1   0.5  3.7  12.9  15.5  3.2  1.9  5.1   .150    1.7
23  Enes Kanter	  C   22  TOT  75  2135  20.3  .564  .048  .252  14.6  20.5  17.6  4.8   0.9  1.1  12.3  24.7  4.3  2.1  6.4   .145   -0.1
32  Joel Freeland C   27  POR  48  617   12.2  .522  .000  .166  11.0  21.9  16.6  3.8   0.7  2.7  12.4  13.4  0.6  0.9  1.6   .122    0.0
34  Omer Asik	  C   28  NOP  76  1982  15.5  .545  .000  .546  14.0  28.8  21.4  5.4   0.8  2.1  15.7  14.0  2.8  2.2  5.0   .120    0.6
35  Kosta Koufos  C   25  MEM  81  1348  14.2  .530  .000  .237  10.3  25.8  18.1  4.3   1.1  3.9  14.9  15.8  0.8  2.5  3.3   .118    0.2
37  Cole Aldrich  C   26  NYK  61  976   18.1  .513  .000  .213  11.6  28.9  20.0  13.3  2.0  5.5  15.2  18.3  0.8  1.4  2.2   .107    0.7
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
3   Kawhi Leonard SF  23  SAS  64  2033  22.0  .567  .234  .307  4.8   20.6  12.9  13.0  3.7  1.8  9.4   23.0  4.2  4.4  8.6   .204    4.1
12  Dray. Green	  SF  24  GSW  79  2490  16.4  .540  .430  .261  5.1   22.4  14.0  16.1  2.4  2.9  13.5  17.2  3.3  5.2  8.5   .163    4.4
16  D. Carroll	  SF  28  ATL  70  2189  15.9  .603  .466  .277  5.3   13.8  9.7   8.3   2.2  0.7  9.3   16.9  4.3  2.8  7.0   .154    2.7
28  Dorell Wright SF  29  POR  48  592   13.4  .525  .568  .221  2.6   17.2  10.0  10.2  1.7  1.3  7.9   17.1  0.7  0.8  1.6   .128    0.4
33  Tha Sefolosha SF  30  ATL  52  976   13.8  .506  .313  .233  6.4   19.3  13.1  11.2  2.8  1.8  12.2  14.6  0.8  1.7  2.5   .121    0.8
36  Jae Crowder   SF  24  TOT  82  1647  13.9  .517  .382  .259  4.7   14.9  9.7   8.6   2.2  1.2  7.5   17.5  1.9  2.0  3.9   .113    1.1
41  Tobias Harris SF  22  ORL  68  2369  16.7  .551  .252  .258  3.4   17.3  10.3  8.8   1.5  1.2  9.8   22.5  3.0  1.8  4.8   .098    1.0
Maybe maybe not. Far more impressive than any stat you can show me on Monroe is your unequaled use of the code functionality.

HA! Thank you. But really tho I think for how this team wants to play a kid like Monroe would be ideal. He's got his limitations but I think he's proven he can be depended on to produce at a solid level and I personally think he still has upside. I don't particularly like the way Detroit used him.

I think he would benefit from playing a legit system that prioritizes bigs and allows him to use his passing skills in a less haphazard way. In our offense the post passer has very clear angles and many more touches which will allow for him to develop a very nice rhythm and anticipation of the passes he can make. He won't be pushed out of the paint so often just to allow DeAndre Jordan to get touches in the paint.

The Triangle is actually designed for more than one post player, which I think goes underestimated by a lot of people. There's just a HUGE difference from how Detroit was trying to play with 2 bigs who needed to be close to the basket in order to be effective. The Triangle Spacing is just totally different from what a lot of teams tend to do when it comes to having 2 bigs play at the same time effectively.
jamp
Posts: 20145
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/3/2010
Member: #3163
4/29/2015  4:06 PM
BRIGGS wrote:This could actually be the most realistic combo


C-Lopez (2 years 35mm)
PF Towns or Okafor(pick 1-2-3)
F Anthony
G Carroll (4 years 32mm)
G Shveyd (3 years 10mm)

C Aldrich(3 years 6mm)
PF Christmas Mickey Holmes or Wood (purchase 2nd rounder)
F Thansis or Early
G Hardaway
G Galloway

Minimum salary
Lance Thomas vet min F
Joel Freeland C
UDFA Josh Richardson PG
UDFA Darrun Hilliard SG

Now your talking Briggs. This makes sense but if we dont get Towns I wouldn't
take Okafor you take Russell and get David Lee for that 1st round draft pick and
grab Mickey out of LSU. This kid can rebound and play great defense if he develops
he can be a Draymond Green type. Good call Briggs.

Oh I also would like to see us go after Aminu, looked really good guarding Harden. 6'9 long
arms good rebounder can defend from 1 to 4 and can shoot. He can opt out. Phil should make
him an offer. At the least he's better then Acy.
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Free agency much harder than most fans think
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