holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea it's pretty dumb which is why I can see him on the Knicks next year.

I prefer Monroe. Better passer and rebounder. Better synergy . Cheaper. Better fit for triangle. Melo/Aldridge IS Melo/Amare all over again.
Heck Kevin Love would be a better fit here as far as balance goes

Monroe is not a better defender, rebounder and cannot carry a team..Monroe has led 30 win teams the last 4 years in the East..Aldridge has led his teams to the playoffs the last 6 years in the West..Aldridge steps it up in the playoffs as well..Monroe isn't that kind of player..It's not even close..You really think not having a motor and yearning to win don't matter??

has LA carried his teams in the playoffs?

He's been good. He gave the Rockets fit in that series win and they lost to the Spurs who won the title in convincing fashing. I mean Aldridge has flaws but he's a legit star.

He has not been good, he's been terrible.

And, in the Rockets series, he was good for the first 2 games when he was hot. Then he went cold and Portland had enough other players to cover his bad play.

He is terrible??...24 pts per game 10 boards on 47% shooting is not terrible...

I could care less about points per game. That is a stupid stat.

I care about how efficient he is at getting those points and he is horribly inefficient.

I don't know why this is so complicated (seriously ... don't get why people keep talking about points)

Because TS% is a stupid way to look at a player..U don't know how the particular player score his points..U don't know if he is a three point shooter or scoring from ft..17 of the top 20 TS% players aren't the best players on their teams..They aren't even top 2 or 3 on their own team...So what's the point???

it's easy to find out how many 3 pointers, 2 pointers, and free throws a player takes. a complete wing player will have a 3 point shot as part of his arsenal. non-stretch 4s like aldridge will not, although he seems to be working on that shot too. with that said he has started taking several shots too many per game-- it was 17 now closer to 20-- and that helps lower his fg% to a very middling level, around 46% which is not elite for PF. also he is trending his shot selection further and further from the basket, which is going to hurt his average further. and you will note further that his fta per game is also very low for a player being touted so highly. he needs to get to the line 8-9 times a game. all in all his game is sort of soft and getting softer.

interestingly, if he manages to actually become an okay 3-point shooter, his ts% will become relevant.

Doesn't take away from the fact that TS% a vague stat...It compels you to be apprehensive about who these figures are representing..If you look at TS% for an international player that you have never seen, it means absolutely nothing to you..You don't know if you are looking at Harden or Tyson Chandler..If you look at pts per game, ft%, and threes %, then you know exactly what you might be seeing..So gain, what is the point of TS%??

if you can look at 2s, 3s, and fts you can also look up ts% and gather your own conclusions.

aldridge does not get to the line often enough for the part of the floor he operated in. a good coach will make him work on his fakes to draw more fouls. 5 fta a game is unacceptable for a power forward operating in the post and the lane. and his defense is barely acceptable.

i know you don;t like players who draw fouls... it's as though you see the game through an asphalt lens. face it, organized ball involves reffing and drawing fouls. flopping is another matter.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea it's pretty dumb which is why I can see him on the Knicks next year.

I prefer Monroe. Better passer and rebounder. Better synergy . Cheaper. Better fit for triangle. Melo/Aldridge IS Melo/Amare all over again.
Heck Kevin Love would be a better fit here as far as balance goes

Monroe is not a better defender, rebounder and cannot carry a team..Monroe has led 30 win teams the last 4 years in the East..Aldridge has led his teams to the playoffs the last 6 years in the West..Aldridge steps it up in the playoffs as well..Monroe isn't that kind of player..It's not even close..You really think not having a motor and yearning to win don't matter??

has LA carried his teams in the playoffs?

He's been good. He gave the Rockets fit in that series win and they lost to the Spurs who won the title in convincing fashing. I mean Aldridge has flaws but he's a legit star.

He has not been good, he's been terrible.

And, in the Rockets series, he was good for the first 2 games when he was hot. Then he went cold and Portland had enough other players to cover his bad play.

He is terrible??...24 pts per game 10 boards on 47% shooting is not terrible...

I could care less about points per game. That is a stupid stat.

I care about how efficient he is at getting those points and he is horribly inefficient.

I don't know why this is so complicated (seriously ... don't get why people keep talking about points)

Because TS% is a stupid way to look at a player..U don't know how the particular player score his points..U don't know if he is a three point shooter or scoring from ft..17 of the top 20 TS% players aren't the best players on their teams..They aren't even top 2 or 3 on their own team...So what's the point???

it's easy to find out how many 3 pointers, 2 pointers, and free throws a player takes. a complete wing player will have a 3 point shot as part of his arsenal. non-stretch 4s like aldridge will not, although he seems to be working on that shot too. with that said he has started taking several shots too many per game-- it was 17 now closer to 20-- and that helps lower his fg% to a very middling level, around 46% which is not elite for PF. also he is trending his shot selection further and further from the basket, which is going to hurt his average further. and you will note further that his fta per game is also very low for a player being touted so highly. he needs to get to the line 8-9 times a game. all in all his game is sort of soft and getting softer.

interestingly, if he manages to actually become an okay 3-point shooter, his ts% will become relevant.

Doesn't take away from the fact that TS% a vague stat...It compels you to be apprehensive about who these figures are representing..If you look at TS% for an international player that you have never seen, it means absolutely nothing to you..You don't know if you are looking at Harden or Tyson Chandler..If you look at pts per game, ft%, and threes %, then you know exactly what you might be seeing..So gain, what is the point of TS%??

if you can look at 2s, 3s, and fts you can also look up ts% and gather your own conclusions.

aldridge does not get to the line often enough for the part of the floor he operated in. a good coach will make him work on his fakes to draw more fouls. 5 fta a game is unacceptable for a power forward operating in the post and the lane. and his defense is barely acceptable.

i know you don;t like players who draw fouls... it's as though you see the game through an asphalt lens. face it, organized ball involves reffing and drawing fouls. flopping is another matter.

36% of LA's shot come from between 16-23 feet and he is hitting only 39% of those shots. Thats not good and to your point, will not get him get to the FT line enough.

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea it's pretty dumb which is why I can see him on the Knicks next year.

I prefer Monroe. Better passer and rebounder. Better synergy . Cheaper. Better fit for triangle. Melo/Aldridge IS Melo/Amare all over again.
Heck Kevin Love would be a better fit here as far as balance goes

Monroe is not a better defender, rebounder and cannot carry a team..Monroe has led 30 win teams the last 4 years in the East..Aldridge has led his teams to the playoffs the last 6 years in the West..Aldridge steps it up in the playoffs as well..Monroe isn't that kind of player..It's not even close..You really think not having a motor and yearning to win don't matter??

has LA carried his teams in the playoffs?

He's been good. He gave the Rockets fit in that series win and they lost to the Spurs who won the title in convincing fashing. I mean Aldridge has flaws but he's a legit star.

He has not been good, he's been terrible.

And, in the Rockets series, he was good for the first 2 games when he was hot. Then he went cold and Portland had enough other players to cover his bad play.

He is terrible??...24 pts per game 10 boards on 47% shooting is not terrible...

I could care less about points per game. That is a stupid stat.

I care about how efficient he is at getting those points and he is horribly inefficient.

I don't know why this is so complicated (seriously ... don't get why people keep talking about points)

Because TS% is a stupid way to look at a player..U don't know how the particular player score his points..U don't know if he is a three point shooter or scoring from ft..17 of the top 20 TS% players aren't the best players on their teams..They aren't even top 2 or 3 on their own team...So what's the point???

Its stupid to ignore it and not include it in the synopsis.

You are stuck in your ways and won't open your mind to new (good) ideas / metrics.

I watched LA play 20-30 games this year. I know how this works.

There are many bigs who can't shoot threes yet they are still efficient. LA is a very good player (yet overrated). He has stunk in the playoffs just like Melo stunk (often) in the playoffs. Lets just call it how it is and stop trying to reverse engineer everything to make in work.

LA started shooting more threes (which I said that he needed to do before the season and got yelled at here by almost everyone). He needs to shoot much smarter shots from much smarter locations on the floor.

He would be perfect here in the triangle though with his love of the long 2.

I don't know why this is so complicated (seriously ... don't get why people keep talking about points)

You seems to be using this methodology as a way to evaluate players while downplaying and not accepting the advantages of traditional methods..In the process you are not explaining why your way is the right way to evaluate players..You resort to a weak attempt to insult others without addressing the issue or question at hand..Leads me to believe you are just a follower of what others are saying is cutting edge while not understand the actual product...

For me to endorse this methodology as a way to evaluate players it has to make sense...You and dk7 have not attempted to show me how it makes sense other than tell me I'm stuck in my old ways...I have laid it out to you why it doesn't make sense...Better you move on, you have no answers..

right ... coming from a guy who does not like players who draws boring fouls ... yeah ... moving on.

nobody needs YOU to endorse a methodology. If it does not make sense to you which it obviously doesn't then continue to hammer that square peg.

and, I did not insult you so stop trying to wiggle out. I have stated my stance with data to back it up numerous times. And, I watch a lot of games and believe that you need to both watch games and understand the stats to understand a players value.

Funny how most on this board resisted the use of metrics and now most have embraced it.

There are always the stragglers who drown in their pride.

RonRon wrote:LA has the skills and abilities to be a LEGIT #1 option
It is not his fault that Lilliard is playing through injuries and his #2, #3, #6, #7 options are hurt, out, or/and not performing

LA's strength is his mid range game and this is one of the needs of the Triangle, in addition to a POST and FACILITATING game which he has
ON TOP OF IT, he is not a weak defender, rebounder, or a ball hog, with good size/strength/length/mobility/athleticism, I would not be upset if we payed a MAX contract for him
However, I do not think he is a leader though he is a legit scorer and stretch 4 that can rebound/defend his position, even providing help on switches if needed
Pairing him with the right talent and the another 7footer or 2 would be the key, as he and CA a very good options as scorers with the spacing needed for 1v1's inside and out, depending on matchups

Maybe drafting Towns or OK4 at Center and a signing of Ajinicia *rest of cap* and Carroll or Wesley Matthews/Danny Green *MLE*

he is not a bad defender just not a good one. i believe we need a good one.
he is not a stretch 4 although he seems to be trying to incorporate some 3s, just not enough to be stretch 4 yet.
he is not the facilitator you believe he is.
he was not much of a ball hog but lately his usage has been around 30% which is pretty high; he takes 3-4 shots too many per game, bad shots, which are turnovers in the playoffs.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:I'm not sure if big name free agents will look at the Knicks as a destination to win now...The role players are an important piece to a puzzle when building a team..I not sure if we can say we have the right role players in place to attract a big name..It's not easy to get such players which is why Cleveland paid two first round picks to get Moz...It was absolutely dumb luck that they landed JR and Shump..

But are a duo, Melo and Aldridge can work well together in Phil's system..

If i'm talking to a top free agent I'm reminding them that once they sign on, with Melo and our draft pick, it won't be hard to convince others to join. There's a momentum that get's created once you have more than one All Star on a team. Players focus on that and see themselves as part of an improving roster. I'm not saying we'll definitely get Aldridge to come here, but it looks a lot better as you walk them thru the process. Remember we would already have drafted by then and that will also add to the momentum of the team and how players look at the franchise.

Also remember this is just step one and there will be more cap space in the future to continue to add talent. Players will understand that as Phil breaks down his plan.

You also have to remember that Portland has a huge supporting cast currently and they are still only a second round team...I think getting rid of vet players and nothing in return in terms of supporting players wasn't smart...I know he tried with Calderon but that was just a bad move..

I tend to believe the best value from Vet players come from players accepting the Vet's minimum in order to be in a situation they like. I see us filling the requisite 10 roster spots with 5 of the best players we can find and 5 rookie min contracts and then filling in the blanks with players willing to take the Vets minimum this year. Take the Aldridge scenario...

3G Jose Calderon $7.4MM (although stretching could replace him with Shved, I don't think we are stretching Calderon)
TRI Justice Winslow $3.9MM
ANG Carmelo Anthony $22,875,000
LE LaMarcus Aldridge $20,130,000
DC Bismack Biyambo $7,000,000.00

Cleanthony $930,000
Hardaway $1.3
Galloway $930,000
Antekoumpo $930,000
Thomas 930,000

Here, we have used the cap space, we can sign up to 5 vets at the vet minimum - Clearly not expecting a top guy, but maybe an old vet who always wanted to play in NY shows up. Maybe I would not bet on any exact signings, but there will be a few players who will take the min contract because they believe in what is happening or just want to play in NY. Or you can troll the D-Leagues for big league talent.

blkexec wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:If we are gonna be competing with the Spurs then that greatly decreases our chances at getting LA. I don't see him turning down an offer to replace T.Duncan and play for the greatest coach ever in Pop.

And he's from TX, but not sure if that an advantage or not.

Some people don't want that kind of attention. NY for a year, increase your star status using the NY media coverage as marketing. And obtain more money when the salary cap is higher. This is probably how Phil will fill up the roster with solid vets, looking to cash out next year for a long contract with any team, since everybody will have more cap space.

Once the luxury spots are closed (like the Spurs), whoever is left will be smart to play for NY, from a marketing perspective. Especially for bigs that believe the triangle is suited for them. Some bigs are not aloud to shine since the NBA is dominated by guard play. This might help with Phils recruitment, especially for bigs stuck in the wrong system. For example, if Kanter is playing at a high level, and you have Westbrook and Durrant who will take up all the shots, he might see NY as a way to market himself for a bigger contract next season. Bigs that can score, and rebound, will also get a chance to pass and get assits. Almost like being a triple double threat every game. Bigs that know how to pass and score will look like a star, playing with Melo, who normally gets all the double team attention.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:yea this works both ways... career wise whats the upside to replacing Tim Duncan? These guys have a lot of pride, thats not an easy situation to slide into.

that's a valid point. that'd be like signing as a free agent to play short stop for the yankees the year after Jeter retires.

one thing - I could see a lot of guys doing that lebron deal this summer - 2yrs at the max, opt out after one. Gives them the option of hitting FA in 2016 or 2017 when the cap will be bonkers. LMA's on the older side, so may want the security now... but he may figure it's worth a small gamble to wait one year and know full well that Dolan will max him out to bejesus and beyond no matter how old he is.

I could see LMA coming here... just not sure how good it makes us and he's at the level of service that his max would take up most of our $26M cap space. I think his contract could start at like $18.8 million or so?

I guess it'll all depend on the draft. if the Knicks get Okafor, I can't see them sinking all their cap space into LMA. but if they get a guy like Winslow or D'Angelo Russell? it makes a helluva lot more sense.

And yea.. not only would you be replacing Jeter, but on a team with title expectations.

BRIGGS wrote:If you read about Lamarcus--you would know there is 0/1000 chance he is coming here. He will take the bigger money from Portland or he will play in Texas. Id still bet on the money. Exactly why would he come to NY? His entire family is in Texas and all 3 teams have cap space.

I promise to stop talking about Aldridge to the Knicks if you accept that Kanter is resigning in OKC?

BRIGGS wrote:If you read about Lamarcus--you would know there is 0/1000 chance he is coming here. He will take the bigger money from Portland or he will play in Texas. Id still bet on the money. Exactly why would he come to NY? His entire family is in Texas and all 3 teams have cap space.

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If you read about Lamarcus--you would know there is 0/1000 chance he is coming here. He will take the bigger money from Portland or he will play in Texas. Id still bet on the money. Exactly why would he come to NY? His entire family is in Texas and all 3 teams have cap space.

Also, with the money that he gets paid no state income tax in Texas makes it a much more lucrative place for him to sign.

Well, he'd have to choose to either replace Tim Duncan or team up with Dirk, which would be an awkward fit. Houston doesn't have cap room at present.

Knicks will be in the running if he chooses to leave Portland. Again, the FA market is pretty moot until the draft shakes out.

San Antonio makes a ton of sense for him.

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If you read about Lamarcus--you would know there is 0/1000 chance he is coming here. He will take the bigger money from Portland or he will play in Texas. Id still bet on the money. Exactly why would he come to NY? His entire family is in Texas and all 3 teams have cap space.

Also, with the money that he gets paid no state income tax in Texas makes it a much more lucrative place for him to sign.

and just think of all that endorsement money he'd get.

What knick player in the last 30 years has made any material momeybfrom endorsements? The guys who get endorsements get them for skill