The desperation to find negatives here is eye opening.

And sad.

This was a good read about a good kid, who's mother dies, dad steps in and your talking about exploitative parents. Im done. You guys enjoy each other on this one

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea the nba is past those 1 skill players.

OK4 will probably end up playing in Greece like Sweetney one day. Sweetney also had a gigantic wingspan which is why we drafted him despite being only 6'8

Bottom line is that the game has changed tremendously; whoever we decide to draft with that once in a lifetime lottery pick must be able to adapt and change his game to fit in. If Shaq were a me to shoot the ball from 10 feet out, he probably could have had a much bigger impact in the game. As you age, you lose athleticism and have to rely on other facets of the game to be effective. I love Shaq, but I sure as hell wish he had a lot more range with his shots.

Can Okafor add range to his game? I think he can, he just has to put in the Time in the gym to develop it. Either kid would be a blessing for the Knicks.

first of all, shaq did not need to improve his game other than FT's. He was great at what he did and he did not need to be a stretch.

And, if all you need to do is go to the Gym to fix your shooting then why don't all bad shooters just go to the Gym? I hate this logic.

Seems reasonable to suggest that a college freshman could evolve and add to his game.

of course he can but you can't assume these things.

It seemed reasonable to assume that Shaq would learn how to shoot free throws or that D Jordan would be able to figure out how to shoot a lick.

I believe on giving everyone a chance to prove me wrong; specifically, a young 19 year old kid. The bad thing is that these kids are not allowed to stay in college and develop. It is easier to judge a young dude who stayed in college for at least three years; you at least would have a much bigger sample to see progress. However, I do believe it is different when you have a player who is superb at more then one facet of the game; I.e: Shaq and DJ, they are great defenders, superb above the rim scorers, decent passers, and tremendous rebounders. They are or were great at three out of four areas if the game.

Okafor on the other hand is only known for his post up game and passing ability. Where Towns is known for defense, shooting the ball with range, shot blocking,rebounding, etc. IMO, a much better investment

Okafor is known for his post scoring, passing and rebounding. Towns is known for his rebounding and shot blocking. Towns hasn't really shown much shooting range and he shot less 30% from the college 3 this year. Okafor has shown signs of developing a Duncanesque bank shot while Towns has shown signs of a post game. They're both 19 with room for improvement. I think Okafor is the better guy based on what brings and his age. I can see the argument for Towns, but they are both unfinished products. Just like I'm sure OK4 will probably never turn into a defensive stopper, I'm not sure Towns will ever become a primary or secondary scoring option.

Towns shot 8 3 pointers this season so its impossible to say if he can shoot the 3 based on that.

I have seen clips of his knocking down many consecutive 3's in shootouts.

I would love to see a clip of Ok4 hitting 7 consecutive 20 footers.

Why? he shoots 65% from close. Isnt a 20 footer the ultimate anti-metrics shot? Havent you said a 1000 times that is the worst shot in the NBA? And you want a guy with a FG% better than Shaq shooting from there? I dont follow...

Towns 100% has a good jumper. Excellent form and very fluid. I have seen OK4 nail that 12 footer off glass like he's shooting in his driveway, so its not like a paint move or bust.

I see Towns as very Aldridge like. I could see him having a good career simply shooting that jumper over other frontcourt players with ease.

Yes. The 20 footer is a horrible shot. I want to see clips of Ok4 shooting it just to see if he has potential range.

Ok4 should only be shooting near the basket with his limited range and that is why I would want towns who has the potential to shoot from anywhere on the court just like ADavis and LAldridge.

One of the reasons why Al Jeffs is capped is that he is very one dimensional in his scoring. So again, if he can turn into shaq and shoot 65% from the floor in close (which very few of us believe that he can be) then I still can't figure out who is a good upside comparison other than Al Jefferson (who is one of the best (strictly) low post scorers in the game).

Towns has such a fluid shot and he can potentially be unguardable. LA was a good comparison though I think Towns can be a far better passer and low post player.

I dont have a big Al Jefferson comparison beef, but OK4 is bigger and longer and more skilled. So while Jefferson is a nice post scorer, OK4 is post scorer you can build an offense around. The style of play may be similar but one is far more effective than others. MJ and Kobe have similar styles, but one is much more effective than the other. Same with Amare/Karl Malone, or Barkley and Clarence Weatherspoon, or KG/Sheed. Similar styles, varying degree of effectiveness. Al is only around 50%, often lower and thats not very good considering where all his offense comes from. If OK4 was that I would say he's fell well short of expectations.

There is nothing wrong with saying OK4's style will be similar to Jeffersons, it will be and is. It doesnt mean he will only be as good as Al. With superior physical skills and much superior BB skills I would expect OK4 to be a much higher impact.

he may be better than Al but he may be worse. People don't realize how hard it is to be a great low post scorer in the NBA.

As I have said, bigger is not always better.

Hakeem shot 51.4 percent for his career.

Ok4 also is a terrible FT shooter and that will not help his overall TS.

Ok4 can end up being better than Al Jeff but there is no way of knowing. And even if he ends up better, I still believe that he has a more limited upside. We still can't find an upside comp.

Also, you can't use his duke numbers to prove skill and efficiency since we can look at Boozer and Sheldon Williams who did just as good. Ok4 is bigger? Not sure if that will translate to much better.

Again ... its a crap shoot and if its a crap shoot then I want to shoot for more upside.

I am not trying to kill Ok4. I would be happy if we got him but if we had the choice (and we probably won't), then I go for towns. 50% chance we don't get either.

Sheldon Williams doesnt touch OK4... he was a 4 year CBB player. At 19 Sheldon wasnt in the same stratosphere. Boozer is a more fair comparison and most of what he did at Duke translated to the NBA. Good scorer, good rebounder. Boozer's real issue was between the ears and he got hurt a lot and missed huges chunks of seasons. I would say Boozer's skills translated nicely.

boozer has sucked-- SUCKED-- as an nba player but you'd never know it from how much he has been paid. to the degree that okafor resembles boozer that right there is troublesome. guess what-- okafor resembles boozer.

"translated nicely" mmmffffnnnncchh

yup... and Frank Kaminsky is a small forward. What else ya got?

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/03/24/jahlil-okafor-duke-blue-devils-ncaa-tournament

looks like his father chucky is a bit of a "stage-parent" lowlife, what with getting kicked off of three teams as a young guy and then becoming an assistant coach for his son. something a bit too meal-tickety and exploitative about that, and it could cause problems in the young man's head. not that i expect a 20-year old to articulate that, but the conveyor belt to the nba that this young man has been on is not going to develop his values and work ethic. and then the apple does not fall far from the tree, either. again, this is NOT to say that okafor has exhibited character issues or will exhibit character issues... but there are several red flags that a front office has to look for in their vetting process.

meanwhile there is this on karl anthony towns' parents, who look to be happily married and are stable:

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2014/08/14/karl-anthony-towns-parents-separable-kentucky-games/14053695/

as splat has said: "character = destiny"

so far as kaminsky, we shall see. i think he'll be able to play the 3 if asked or required of him.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea the nba is past those 1 skill players.

OK4 will probably end up playing in Greece like Sweetney one day. Sweetney also had a gigantic wingspan which is why we drafted him despite being only 6'8

Bottom line is that the game has changed tremendously; whoever we decide to draft with that once in a lifetime lottery pick must be able to adapt and change his game to fit in. If Shaq were a me to shoot the ball from 10 feet out, he probably could have had a much bigger impact in the game. As you age, you lose athleticism and have to rely on other facets of the game to be effective. I love Shaq, but I sure as hell wish he had a lot more range with his shots.

Can Okafor add range to his game? I think he can, he just has to put in the Time in the gym to develop it. Either kid would be a blessing for the Knicks.

first of all, shaq did not need to improve his game other than FT's. He was great at what he did and he did not need to be a stretch.

And, if all you need to do is go to the Gym to fix your shooting then why don't all bad shooters just go to the Gym? I hate this logic.

Seems reasonable to suggest that a college freshman could evolve and add to his game.

of course he can but you can't assume these things.

It seemed reasonable to assume that Shaq would learn how to shoot free throws or that D Jordan would be able to figure out how to shoot a lick.

I believe on giving everyone a chance to prove me wrong; specifically, a young 19 year old kid. The bad thing is that these kids are not allowed to stay in college and develop. It is easier to judge a young dude who stayed in college for at least three years; you at least would have a much bigger sample to see progress. However, I do believe it is different when you have a player who is superb at more then one facet of the game; I.e: Shaq and DJ, they are great defenders, superb above the rim scorers, decent passers, and tremendous rebounders. They are or were great at three out of four areas if the game.

Okafor on the other hand is only known for his post up game and passing ability. Where Towns is known for defense, shooting the ball with range, shot blocking,rebounding, etc. IMO, a much better investment

Okafor is known for his post scoring, passing and rebounding. Towns is known for his rebounding and shot blocking. Towns hasn't really shown much shooting range and he shot less 30% from the college 3 this year. Okafor has shown signs of developing a Duncanesque bank shot while Towns has shown signs of a post game. They're both 19 with room for improvement. I think Okafor is the better guy based on what brings and his age. I can see the argument for Towns, but they are both unfinished products. Just like I'm sure OK4 will probably never turn into a defensive stopper, I'm not sure Towns will ever become a primary or secondary scoring option.

Towns shot 8 3 pointers this season so its impossible to say if he can shoot the 3 based on that.

I have seen clips of his knocking down many consecutive 3's in shootouts.

I would love to see a clip of Ok4 hitting 7 consecutive 20 footers.

Why? he shoots 65% from close. Isnt a 20 footer the ultimate anti-metrics shot? Havent you said a 1000 times that is the worst shot in the NBA? And you want a guy with a FG% better than Shaq shooting from there? I dont follow...

Towns 100% has a good jumper. Excellent form and very fluid. I have seen OK4 nail that 12 footer off glass like he's shooting in his driveway, so its not like a paint move or bust.

I see Towns as very Aldridge like. I could see him having a good career simply shooting that jumper over other frontcourt players with ease.

Yes. The 20 footer is a horrible shot. I want to see clips of Ok4 shooting it just to see if he has potential range.

Ok4 should only be shooting near the basket with his limited range and that is why I would want towns who has the potential to shoot from anywhere on the court just like ADavis and LAldridge.

One of the reasons why Al Jeffs is capped is that he is very one dimensional in his scoring. So again, if he can turn into shaq and shoot 65% from the floor in close (which very few of us believe that he can be) then I still can't figure out who is a good upside comparison other than Al Jefferson (who is one of the best (strictly) low post scorers in the game).

Towns has such a fluid shot and he can potentially be unguardable. LA was a good comparison though I think Towns can be a far better passer and low post player.

I dont have a big Al Jefferson comparison beef, but OK4 is bigger and longer and more skilled. So while Jefferson is a nice post scorer, OK4 is post scorer you can build an offense around. The style of play may be similar but one is far more effective than others. MJ and Kobe have similar styles, but one is much more effective than the other. Same with Amare/Karl Malone, or Barkley and Clarence Weatherspoon, or KG/Sheed. Similar styles, varying degree of effectiveness. Al is only around 50%, often lower and thats not very good considering where all his offense comes from. If OK4 was that I would say he's fell well short of expectations.

There is nothing wrong with saying OK4's style will be similar to Jeffersons, it will be and is. It doesnt mean he will only be as good as Al. With superior physical skills and much superior BB skills I would expect OK4 to be a much higher impact.

he may be better than Al but he may be worse. People don't realize how hard it is to be a great low post scorer in the NBA.

As I have said, bigger is not always better.

Hakeem shot 51.4 percent for his career.

Ok4 also is a terrible FT shooter and that will not help his overall TS.

Ok4 can end up being better than Al Jeff but there is no way of knowing. And even if he ends up better, I still believe that he has a more limited upside. We still can't find an upside comp.

Also, you can't use his duke numbers to prove skill and efficiency since we can look at Boozer and Sheldon Williams who did just as good. Ok4 is bigger? Not sure if that will translate to much better.

Again ... its a crap shoot and if its a crap shoot then I want to shoot for more upside.

I am not trying to kill Ok4. I would be happy if we got him but if we had the choice (and we probably won't), then I go for towns. 50% chance we don't get either.

Sheldon Williams doesnt touch OK4... he was a 4 year CBB player. At 19 Sheldon wasnt in the same stratosphere. Boozer is a more fair comparison and most of what he did at Duke translated to the NBA. Good scorer, good rebounder. Boozer's real issue was between the ears and he got hurt a lot and missed huges chunks of seasons. I would say Boozer's skills translated nicely.

boozer has sucked-- SUCKED-- as an nba player but you'd never know it from how much he has been paid. to the degree that okafor resembles boozer that right there is troublesome. guess what-- okafor resembles boozer.

"translated nicely" mmmffffnnnncchh

yup... and Frank Kaminsky is a small forward. What else ya got?

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/03/24/jahlil-okafor-duke-blue-devils-ncaa-tournament

looks like his father chucky is a bit of a "stage-parent" lowlife, what with getting kicked off of three teams as a young guy and then becoming an assistant coach for his son. something a bit too meal-tickety and exploitative about that, and it could cause problems in the young man's head. not that i expect a 20-year old to articulate that, but the conveyor belt to the nba that this young man has been on is not going to develop his values and work ethic. and then the apple does not fall far from the tree, either. again, this is NOT to say that okafor has exhibited character issues or will exhibit character issues... but there are several red flags that a front office has to look for in their vetting process.

meanwhile there is this on karl anthony towns' parents, who look to be happily married and are stable:

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2014/08/14/karl-anthony-towns-parents-separable-kentucky-games/14053695/

as splat has said: "character = destiny"

so far as kaminsky, we shall see. i think he'll be able to play the 3 if asked or required of him.

Wow. Can't believe you are focusing on the stuff about Okafor's dad in that article. I think there were two sentences about his past in a two page article. The article was all about pointing out Okafor's footwork and his resemblance to past post greats. I remember reading that article when it came out and thinking that Okafor sounded like one of the most solid pro prospects I had ever read about. Seems like you have a bug up your @ss about this kid because you saw him have a bad tournament game. You were all over him in the game thread. Seems like you have a new Melo. This kid grows up with a dad involved in his life and that is what you get out of it? Okafor has been praised for his character and his dad worked at American University for 12 years. What tree is Jah not falling far from?

hope you read my next couple of posts. no need for me to address this one until then. meantime the knicks need high-character employees like nobody's business. so again i say it is perfectly reasonable and in fact compulsory that the front office does a thorough vetting. but with people like mills that is could be an issue.

BRIGGS wrote:Okafor in the eastern Conf will be VERY hard to deal with. The more I watch Brook Lopez absolutely dominate the more it becomes clear that Okafor with his offensive side can do the same thing. There are simply not many guys who can stop them--hes to big and skilled. Now Brook shoots his FT at 80%+ and Okafor has to get to the mid 70's and be consistent with the 12 footer--but why cant he?

If we get Okafor we just need to put the right pieces in place around him where we can get the best of his defensive side but take advantage of that great offensive side as well . Hes already played on a CBB team that won the NC and played good team defense. I think Okafor might be the surprise out of the top of the draft as expectations have dropped off the map--hes going to surprise with power size agility and touch. hes a little shorter than Brook 1.5 inches shorter--thats why Brook is a shot blocker and Okafor really isnt. But as a power 4what player on what team will be able to stop him? Hes 6-10.5 270+

I dont care if we get pick 1 or 2 I feel either way we get something we really need. If we lose the last 3 thats near a 50% chance we have to get either.

I'm expecting the Knicks to select 3-4. Got to play all the cards if pick 1 or 2 don't come to fruition. That's where I take Mudiay and make that play for Kanter or Monroe. I don't even want to think about Russell at the top 3-4 position. It's like taking a slightly better version of Calderon. By the way Calderon had a sweet stroke too. Without any athleticism that sweet stroke becomes very useless. Might hit a shot or two but once a fast defensive player start to hound Russell he is going to be rendered useless.

I can only consider athletic players at the top position. Now if Russell wows everyone in combines than I would definitely put him in the top 4. Until then it's a wait and see.

Honestly I just like to look at his handle and that is what impresses me. When he is focus he has that young Chris Paul and Steph curry type flair where it looks like the ball is on a string.

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Yeah, the Russell and Calderon is way off base simply due to size and length which let's him see the floor easier and shoot over defenders. Plus I think his release is quicker and he has shown the ability to shoot off the dribble.

Honestly I just like to look at his handle and that is what impresses me. When he is focus he has that young Chris Paul and Steph curry type flair where it looks like the ball is on a string.

Yeah and you have to love a guard who's coming in with a great shot already. I think he could adjust to the Triangle much like Schved did. He's got the same kind of mix of handles, quickness with even more passing and shooting ability.

Guys your falling into the trap again of going for a player that is lacking in the agility category. This is a disaster on the defensive side of the ball. I get that he can shoot it I get that he has good court vision. But his defense no one speaks of I can't see Russell being able to keep up with the faster guards in the league. The lack of athleticism will always come into play especially at the guard positions.