While the Mudiay stock rises, thanks to Skip....

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Using a number 4 pick on a PG who cant consistently hit a jumper concerns me. Sure there are PGs who had the same issue who turned out to be very good players, but its a big gamble with a gutted roster.

The break down talked about Mudiay's lack of shooting off the dribble. I disagree that the shots the clip highlighted were really off the dribble because Mudiay had plenty of time to stop, set, and shoot a brick. The earlier part of the breakdown where he was shooting while up in the air, in motion where closer to what I consider off the dribble. Those higlights showed promise.

Still haven't made up my mind who we should pick, but I do like Mudiay's PNR ability, his ability to see the floor, make a quick pass in motion, and his handle. The negatives in his game makes him a high risk, high reward player. With a gutted roster, don't know if thats what kind of player we should be picking at 4.

how do you feel about Westbrook?

Depends on what day you ask me, lol. Until this season I admired his skills, thought he looked for his shot too much. Thought Westbrook showed more of an all around game with Durant out. Mudiay is a couple of gears slower than Westbrook. If he wasn't I might be more inclined to see Phil take a chance on drafting him.

I see a lot of issues.. he gets out of control at times, doesnt take care of the ball at the level an NBA PG should and his jumper is pretty average. There are an equal amount of positives though. I thought the praise from Marbury was telling, as they played h2h and Marbs can flatout play. That being said I had Mudiay 4th on my prospect list, and while he's my least fav of the top 4 I have always said there is no reason he couldnt be the best player in the draft. Any of the 4 can.. they are all unique, different from each other and bring different things.

You could go:

PG- Mudiay
SG- Carroll (if he can play this spot
SF- Melo
PF- Milsap
C- any old crap (improve this spot next offseason)

or, as said on another thread:

PG- Mudiay
SG-
SF- Melo
PF-
C- Monroe

With $12mil + left to fill in SG and PF.

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I think it's a bit easier to build a team around Mudiay using this years free agents, plus having a potential star PG is more of a draw to FA's.

You could go:

PG- Mudiay
SG- Carroll (if he can play this spot
SF- Melo
PF- Milsap
C- any old crap (improve this spot next offseason)

or, as said on another thread:

PG- Mudiay
SG-
SF- Melo
PF-
C- Monroe

With $12mil + left to fill in SG and PF.

As for you're C Spot you have Kosta Koufos and Alexis Ajinca as options!

When filling in spots.....Phil should lean towards 2 way players, because defense you can always count on.....Offense is up and down. Even Melo, who's the top offensive player in the NBA (or one of them) is not a consistent offensive player. But if you can play defense and get to the rim, you will be a consistent impactful player. Mix in some outside shooting specialist for cheap and cheap vets currently sitting at home ready to retire to help Fisher coach.....That's all Melo needs around him to get the best out of him.

Drivers
Shooters
Defenders
Leaders

Sounds like a lot, but there are players that can do multiple things.

Carroll
Mudiay

There are a lot of free agents that can defend and shoot. Locker room leaders with just 1 strong skill (rebound, defend) are cheap. Mathews is now cheap due to his Achilles injury. I've had both torn so I know Mathews will be a similar player after surgery, because he was never a high flyer. He will still be a solid shooter and defender. Plus he's still young.

blkexec wrote:

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I think it's a bit easier to build a team around Mudiay using this years free agents, plus having a potential star PG is more of a draw to FA's.

You could go:

PG- Mudiay
SG- Carroll (if he can play this spot
SF- Melo
PF- Milsap
C- any old crap (improve this spot next offseason)

or, as said on another thread:

PG- Mudiay
SG-
SF- Melo
PF-
C- Monroe

With $12mil + left to fill in SG and PF.

As for you're C Spot you have Kosta Koufos and Alexis Ajinca as options!

When filling in spots.....Phil should lean towards 2 way players, because defense you can always count on.....Offense is up and down. Even Melo, who's the top offensive player in the NBA (or one of them) is not a consistent offensive player. But if you can play defense and get to the rim, you will be a consistent impactful player. Mix in some outside shooting specialist for cheap and cheap vets currently sitting at home ready to retire to help Fisher coach.....That's all Melo needs around him to get the best out of him.

Drivers
Shooters
Defenders
Leaders

Sounds like a lot, but there are players that can do multiple things.

Carroll
Mudiay

There are a lot of free agents that can defend and shoot. Locker room leaders with just 1 strong skill (rebound, defend) are cheap. Mathews is now cheap due to his Achilles injury. I've had both torn so I know Mathews will be a similar player after surgery, because he was never a high flyer. He will still be a solid shooter and defender. Plus he's still young.

I'm confident that Phil is going to look for good overall players. He's stated that he's looking for players with "Multiple Skills" and he's just too knowledgable about the game and what it takes to win in this league. I think some in the Media and some Knicks Fans are really not appreciating that Phil is not a fool when it comes to assessing team make up. This is the 1st time he'll be able to go get the guys he wants rather than having to settle as he did this year.

nixluva wrote:

blkexec wrote:

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I think it's a bit easier to build a team around Mudiay using this years free agents, plus having a potential star PG is more of a draw to FA's.

You could go:

PG- Mudiay
SG- Carroll (if he can play this spot
SF- Melo
PF- Milsap
C- any old crap (improve this spot next offseason)

or, as said on another thread:

PG- Mudiay
SG-
SF- Melo
PF-
C- Monroe

With $12mil + left to fill in SG and PF.

As for you're C Spot you have Kosta Koufos and Alexis Ajinca as options!

When filling in spots.....Phil should lean towards 2 way players, because defense you can always count on.....Offense is up and down. Even Melo, who's the top offensive player in the NBA (or one of them) is not a consistent offensive player. But if you can play defense and get to the rim, you will be a consistent impactful player. Mix in some outside shooting specialist for cheap and cheap vets currently sitting at home ready to retire to help Fisher coach.....That's all Melo needs around him to get the best out of him.

Drivers
Shooters
Defenders
Leaders

Sounds like a lot, but there are players that can do multiple things.

Carroll
Mudiay

There are a lot of free agents that can defend and shoot. Locker room leaders with just 1 strong skill (rebound, defend) are cheap. Mathews is now cheap due to his Achilles injury. I've had both torn so I know Mathews will be a similar player after surgery, because he was never a high flyer. He will still be a solid shooter and defender. Plus he's still young.

I'm confident that Phil is going to look for good overall players. He's stated that he's looking for players with "Multiple Skills" and he's just too knowledgable about the game and what it takes to win in this league. I think some in the Media and some Knicks Fans are really not appreciating that Phil is not a fool when it comes to assessing team make up. This is the 1st time he'll be able to go get the guys he wants rather than having to settle as he did this year.

I would have agreed with you earlier in the season, but my worry is a lot of the free agent options have been taken off the table (i.e. all the restricted free agents), and even players like Carroll who may have been a bargain will now likely be over $12 mil- Phil is really hampered by how little is available.

I suppose the only saving grace about the cap explosion, is that eventually this offseason the money will run out- if every player is overpaid, then there must be some bargains left over once all the teams are capped out.

BRIGGS wrote:The problem with Mudiay and the triangle is hes an ISO player who cant shoot very well. He is only a good athlete not a great athlete and somewhat careless with the ball right now. So you have a player who needs the ball doesnt shoot amd tens to be careless with it-- it will take significant developmental time(Think Exum) He will be in developmental mode for probably two years. IF we played a more open style I might think differently but we play system basketball and these are the facts. Hell be a solid basketball QB--maybe great but at a minimum safe. However he is not a triangle PG right now. He may be a D league 10-20 game guy before he comes to MSG.

Amazing how you get all that from a kid that played all of I think 11 games in China. Lol And you get it from what you've seen of him on the internet. You should definitely be a scout cause you see more in players then pro scouts do and you don't even have all the stuff they have to scout a player. Amazing.

smackeddog wrote:I think it's a bit easier to build a team around Mudiay using this years free agents, plus having a potential star PG is more of a draw to FA's.

You could go:

PG- Mudiay
SG- Carroll (if he can play this spot
SF- Melo
PF- Milsap
C- any old crap (improve this spot next offseason)

or, as said on another thread:

PG- Mudiay
SG-
SF- Melo
PF-
C- Monroe

With $12mil + left to fill in SG and PF.

You could do.
PG- Mudiay
SG- Gallo/Timmy
SF- Melo
PF- G.Monroe
C- R.Lopez or K.Koufos

If we added Mudiay and resigned Shved we'd have 2 big guards who attack the basket and pass the ball, which would allow us to keep the same flow for an entire game. Both would push the ball and look for early offense which would immediately make the offense more efficient. Both finish well around the basket and get to the line which is also important. If you're going to run an offense that isn't 3pt dependent then you need guards like them to make it work.

nixluva wrote:Just looking at his ability from over a year ago you can see the talent this kid has. His court vision and passing is all there. You can see the athletic ability and driving ability is all there.

If we added Mudiay and resigned Shved we'd have 2 big guards who attack the basket and pass the ball, which would allow us to keep the same flow for an entire game. Both would push the ball and look for early offense which would immediately make the offense more efficient. Both finish well around the basket and get to the line which is also important. If you're going to run an offense that isn't 3pt dependent then you need guards like them to make it work.

The only problem with highlight videos on Mudiay, is that it only shows the highs. But if you watch a video of his lows, it will balance your expectations. He's a great And 1 type of guard. Break you down and look for the pass....Can jump out the gym. But as a PG, would you say he can be better than Mark Jackson? Jason Kidd? I don't see it. The best I see is a poor man John Wall.....And it took him 3 or more years to reach the level he's at now......Everybody doesn't have that same drive or environment to succeed. In NY, especially right now, you need instant success, or he will be on another team like JR, killing it for somebody else.

nixluva wrote:

blkexec wrote:

nixluva wrote:Just looking at his ability from over a year ago you can see the talent this kid has. His court vision and passing is all there. You can see the athletic ability and driving ability is all there.

If we added Mudiay and resigned Shved we'd have 2 big guards who attack the basket and pass the ball, which would allow us to keep the same flow for an entire game. Both would push the ball and look for early offense which would immediately make the offense more efficient. Both finish well around the basket and get to the line which is also important. If you're going to run an offense that isn't 3pt dependent then you need guards like them to make it work.

The only problem with highlight videos on Mudiay, is that it only shows the highs. But if you watch a video of his lows, it will balance your expectations. He's a great And 1 type of guard. Break you down and look for the pass....Can jump out the gym. But as a PG, would you say he can be better than Mark Jackson? Jason Kidd? I don't see it. The best I see is a poor man John Wall.....And it took him 3 or more years to reach the level he's at now......Everybody doesn't have that same drive or environment to succeed. In NY, especially right now, you need instant success, or he will be on another team like JR, killing it for somebody else.

Just remember that in the Triangle he doesn't need to have the Jason Kidd Level of PG Intellect. The Triangle rewards Combo guards more than Pure PG's because the offense doesn't require a ball dominant player as much as a guard who can effectively push the ball and look for early offense, drive and finish, run PnR, Give n Go or catch and shoot. As i've pointed out before, Shved was floundering until put in the Triangle which is perfect for his game. Shved is not a true PG, but he has enough passing to make him effective as a scoring guard in the Triangle. What we saw Shved doing is EXACTLY what Mudiay would be asked to do. It's basically the Kobe/Jordan role. The guard is expected to look to score and be aggressive. He's not expected to have to run the entire offense, just the side of the floor he's on. Usually that is the wide open side of the floor opposite of the Triangle.

I agree....but just like you don't draft Shved with the 4th pick, and use him like we are doing. It's the same with Mudiay. Comparing him to Shved is a great point, but it makes picking him at 4 less attractive. Mudiay is and should be light years ahead of Shved. Especially when picking at 4. The upside is great, I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about the down side. See with Shved, you don't worry about his down side, because he was 1 step out of the league, if we didn't rescue him. A pick at the 4 spot must be an impact player. Mudiay is a impact player, in the right system. For some reason, it seems like most of the players in the US....I'm talking the young instinctive guards, are not adapting to the triangle. But the international or fundamental players are! Mudiay is not a fundamental guard, his game is better when he doesn't have to think and just use his instincts. So if he's on Shevd level, you should pass.....If you think he's on MJ or Kobe's level, you don't pass. If Phil is smart and thinking long term, he picks Mudiay and hopes he turns into a superstar replacement for Melo. But Phil's hasn't made the best moves so far and I don't know if he can afford another bad move. Trust me, I'm happy either way....I think the free agents is what makes this team. The draft pick is always a hit or miss.....Mudiay is a bigger hit or miss. It's like going to the batters box, and with a full count, down by 1.....either you hit a homerun or you lose. Mudiay is a pick and stash player.....and NYC fans aren't ready for a pick and stash.....They want instant success!