With regard to firing his D League coach, why is that even a big deal? They gave him a shot and decided to go with Hodges. It seems to make some sense that Phil would want one of his guys in there who knows the Triangle better and who was brought up in Phil's way of thinking. Who knows what Whitted did in terms of coaching. I can't say that I even know what kind of coach he was. Do any of us know? Maybe they did the guy a favor getting him out of there and he can go somewhere else and perhaps coach in a more comfortable situation and a style that he's more suited to coaching.

nixluva wrote:Phil is the one that made it assured that this team would have this record. He took away any chance the team had to make any kind of comeback this year. He could easily have made desperation moves to bring in some talent and sacrifice even more cap space just to win a few more games this year, but what would that have solved? He did the right thing by flushing this season and looking to start over. It's not like he went all in and did everything humanly possible to try and win this year. Phil clearly went into rebuild mode, so why would he take it out on Fish?

With regard to firing his D League coach, why is that even a big deal? They gave him a shot and decided to go with Hodges. It seems to make some sense that Phil would want one of his guys in there who knows the Triangle better and who was brought up in Phil's way of thinking. Who knows what Whitted did in terms of coaching. I can't say that I even know what kind of coach he was. Do any of us know? Maybe they did the guy a favor getting him out of there and he can go somewhere else and perhaps coach in a more comfortable situation and a style that he's more suited to coaching.

Fish is not a good coach..Phil moved JR and Shump for nothing to take the heat off Fish after being booed at MSG in January...It's cool..Just know that it isn't an excuse..The pressure will be on next year to improve...Sub 30 win team wont cut it in NY...

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:Phil is the one that made it assured that this team would have this record. He took away any chance the team had to make any kind of comeback this year. He could easily have made desperation moves to bring in some talent and sacrifice even more cap space just to win a few more games this year, but what would that have solved? He did the right thing by flushing this season and looking to start over. It's not like he went all in and did everything humanly possible to try and win this year. Phil clearly went into rebuild mode, so why would he take it out on Fish?

With regard to firing his D League coach, why is that even a big deal? They gave him a shot and decided to go with Hodges. It seems to make some sense that Phil would want one of his guys in there who knows the Triangle better and who was brought up in Phil's way of thinking. Who knows what Whitted did in terms of coaching. I can't say that I even know what kind of coach he was. Do any of us know? Maybe they did the guy a favor getting him out of there and he can go somewhere else and perhaps coach in a more comfortable situation and a style that he's more suited to coaching.

Fish is not a good coach..Phil moved JR and Shump for nothing to take the heat off Fish after being booed at MSG in January...It's cool..Just know that it isn't an excuse..The pressure will be on next year to improve...Sub 30 win team wont cut it in NY...

I have a different take on Fish. He came in green but I think he has some talent as a coach and leader of men. It would've helped him if he started the year with a healthy team and guys like JR actually bought in and did their job. No coach can succeed without talent and players buying in. The Knicks weren't losing games by big margins at the start of the year. They simply couldn't close games. We needed more production from our guards, but Jose was injured, THJ was in a sophomore slump and JR was playing like a spazz. You can't win games with poor guard play. You could see the improvement with Galloway and Shved.

With the new players added after the trade you saw a pretty stark improvement in the teams hustle and execution. They still didn't have enough talent but you can tell that with more talent this team would be functioning at a higher level and enough to win games. I simply don't think our biggest issue is Fish. If Phil builds a quality top 6 rotation this team will win games. You can imagine this team playing much better with Melo, Shved, a top pick and a few quality Free Agents making up the rotation.

We just fired a coach for going 10-36...The NBA team just went 14-56??..DLeague guy was doing better...Who is to blame??

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:Phil is the one that made it assured that this team would have this record. He took away any chance the team had to make any kind of comeback this year. He could easily have made desperation moves to bring in some talent and sacrifice even more cap space just to win a few more games this year, but what would that have solved? He did the right thing by flushing this season and looking to start over. It's not like he went all in and did everything humanly possible to try and win this year. Phil clearly went into rebuild mode, so why would he take it out on Fish?

With regard to firing his D League coach, why is that even a big deal? They gave him a shot and decided to go with Hodges. It seems to make some sense that Phil would want one of his guys in there who knows the Triangle better and who was brought up in Phil's way of thinking. Who knows what Whitted did in terms of coaching. I can't say that I even know what kind of coach he was. Do any of us know? Maybe they did the guy a favor getting him out of there and he can go somewhere else and perhaps coach in a more comfortable situation and a style that he's more suited to coaching.

Fish is not a good coach..Phil moved JR and Shump for nothing to take the heat off Fish after being booed at MSG in January...It's cool..Just know that it isn't an excuse..The pressure will be on next year to improve...Sub 30 win team wont cut it in NY...

I have a different take on Fish. He came in green but I think he has some talent as a coach and leader of men. It would've helped him if he started the year with a healthy team and guys like JR actually bought in and did their job. No coach can succeed without talent and players buying in. The Knicks weren't losing games by big margins at the start of the year. They simply couldn't close games. We needed more production from our guards, but Jose was injured, THJ was in a sophomore slump and JR was playing like a spazz. You can't win games with poor guard play. You could see the improvement with Galloway and Shved.

With the new players added after the trade you saw a pretty stark improvement in the teams hustle and execution. They still didn't have enough talent but you can tell that with more talent this team would be functioning at a higher level and enough to win games. I simply don't think our biggest issue is Fish. If Phil builds a quality top 6 rotation this team will win games. You can imagine this team playing much better with Melo, Shved, a top pick and a few quality Free Agents making up the rotation.

dude we went from losing games in the final minutes(prior to the trades a waivers) to get blown out by the 3rd quarter, and you seen stark improvement..

It's ok for this misfits he brought in to take as long as they like to figure out the triangle, but the players that were here prior to phil, had 60 days to get it, and they were shipped out. Then you have the nerve to tell me JR was sold low just so we can get rid of shumps expiring contract..how stupid does that sound

Lets get one thing straight about phil, he has gotten rid of damn everyone that dolan gave him the option to get rid of. There's no question in my mind that if it wasn't for dolan, Houston and Mills would be out the door as well, roger hines, and the med staff too.

Anyone phil hired has zero accountabilty

The Knicks actually ran the Triangle better after the trade. The so called misfits figured it out much faster than the guys we got rid of and they played harder too. Apparently you think figuring out the Triangle means they win most of their games. One has nothing to do with the other. Everything is not about W/L's. Players can be executing the offense properly but still lose. They can be doing things right but still fail to convert because they lack the talent to create on their own, finish layups, hit open shots and FT's. If Cole does everything right in running a play and gets all the way to the basket but throws up a brick, that isn't the coach's fault. He simply isn't good enough to convert the play. The players are in the right positions and making the right passes most of the time, but actually being able to beat your man and finish a play is a separate issue. The difference is talent. That's what this summer is all about.

With the D League team I don't know that the record alone was the reason Whitted was fired. I think it was likely how he was handling the prospects and running the system. Who knows for sure?

knicks1248 wrote:

Kevin Whitted is out as head coach of the D-League affiliate Westchester Knicks, and assistant coach Craig Hodges will take over for the final few games of the season.
There was tension between the two coaches throughout the on-court flop of a debut season, and Phil Jackson’s man won out.
The Westchester Knicks, running the triangle offense with little success, have the second-worst record in the D-League at 10-36 with four games remaining.
Whitted, a first-year coach, was hired by Westchester general manager Allan Houston, his former Tennessee teammate.
Hodges, 54, is a Jackson disciple. Hodges won two titles playing for Jackson with the Bulls, and cadged two more rings as a Lakers assistant under Jackson.
According to a source, Hodges thought Whitted’s loud and brash style was not working and his yelling at the players was being tuned out. Hodges has a more laid-back approach.
“Our focus remains on developing players and preparing them for the next step in their careers,” Houston said in a statement released Monday morning. “The support from the fans and the entire community in our inaugural season has been tremendous. We wish Kevin the best in his future endeavors.”

This is the bull shhh i don't like, it's ok for one of his triangle puppets to post a horrible record, but any else is out the door.

This guy will never fire anyone he hired, so derek fisher has a leash that stretches around the globe, and is allowed to have the worse record n franchise history, and feel super confident about his job status.

Who hire's a coach that posted a far worse record then the guy he fired, and doesn't have a thing to worry about, just as cool as a cucumber. another loss is all good

You lack imagination and prefer proof over concept.
Read up and you'll see Whitted was a yelling and srcreaming and tuned his players out. Who fires a guy with a week to go in the season? Phil, cuz this guy was not handling himself.

The Knick Cultural Revolution won't tolerate the non-believer and those that lose their cool. PHil when he coached did not yell and rant. Don't confuse yelling with passion.
Fish is cool. Dude is gets a pass cuz its out of his control. This is about lottery position.
I can respect your opinion, but you have to at least give some thought to the bigger picture. Gutting and establising a foundantion means you go backwards. You build a strong foundation by going deep below.

Im sure with phil we all wanted a better short term result. after 30 games it was evident things were worse than expected. If Tyson was the difference of winning 50 games or 14 your delusional.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:Phil is the one that made it assured that this team would have this record. He took away any chance the team had to make any kind of comeback this year. He could easily have made desperation moves to bring in some talent and sacrifice even more cap space just to win a few more games this year, but what would that have solved? He did the right thing by flushing this season and looking to start over. It's not like he went all in and did everything humanly possible to try and win this year. Phil clearly went into rebuild mode, so why would he take it out on Fish?

With regard to firing his D League coach, why is that even a big deal? They gave him a shot and decided to go with Hodges. It seems to make some sense that Phil would want one of his guys in there who knows the Triangle better and who was brought up in Phil's way of thinking. Who knows what Whitted did in terms of coaching. I can't say that I even know what kind of coach he was. Do any of us know? Maybe they did the guy a favor getting him out of there and he can go somewhere else and perhaps coach in a more comfortable situation and a style that he's more suited to coaching.

Fish is not a good coach..Phil moved JR and Shump for nothing to take the heat off Fish after being booed at MSG in January...It's cool..Just know that it isn't an excuse..The pressure will be on next year to improve...Sub 30 win team wont cut it in NY...

I have a different take on Fish. He came in green but I think he has some talent as a coach and leader of men. It would've helped him if he started the year with a healthy team and guys like JR actually bought in and did their job. No coach can succeed without talent and players buying in. The Knicks weren't losing games by big margins at the start of the year. They simply couldn't close games. We needed more production from our guards, but Jose was injured, THJ was in a sophomore slump and JR was playing like a spazz. You can't win games with poor guard play. You could see the improvement with Galloway and Shved.

With the new players added after the trade you saw a pretty stark improvement in the teams hustle and execution. They still didn't have enough talent but you can tell that with more talent this team would be functioning at a higher level and enough to win games. I simply don't think our biggest issue is Fish. If Phil builds a quality top 6 rotation this team will win games. You can imagine this team playing much better with Melo, Shved, a top pick and a few quality Free Agents making up the rotation.

dude we went from losing games in the final minutes(prior to the trades a waivers) to get blown out by the 3rd quarter, and you seen stark improvement..

It's ok for this misfits he brought in to take as long as they like to figure out the triangle, but the players that were here prior to phil, had 60 days to get it, and they were shipped out. Then you have the nerve to tell me JR was sold low just so we can get rid of shumps expiring contract..how stupid does that sound

Lets get one thing straight about phil, he has gotten rid of damn everyone that dolan gave him the option to get rid of. There's no question in my mind that if it wasn't for dolan, Houston and Mills would be out the door as well, roger hines, and the med staff too.

Anyone phil hired has zero accountabilty

Apparently you still don't get the point of what's been going on since the trade. It wasn't that he was going to fix everything that was wrong and suddenly we'd be a playoff team. Phil was clearing the decks and planning to start over. He already knew that Melo would eventually have to shut it down and at that point the team as going into full on rebuild mode. Had he made a serious of deals for better players that would eat into the cap in an effort to try and win now then I could see the problem, but that's not what he did.

The Knicks actually ran the Triangle better after the trade. The so called misfits figured it out much faster than the guys we got rid of and they played harder too. Apparently you think figuring out the Triangle means they win most of their games. One has nothing to do with the other. Everything is not about W/L's. Players can be executing the offense properly but still lose. They can be doing things right but still fail to convert because they lack the talent to create on their own, finish layups, hit open shots and FT's. If Cole does everything right in running a play and gets all the way to the basket but throws up a brick, that isn't the coach's fault. He simply isn't good enough to convert the play. The players are in the right positions and making the right passes most of the time, but actually being able to beat your man and finish a play is a separate issue. The difference is talent. That's what this summer is all about.

With the D League team I don't know that the record alone was the reason Whitted was fired. I think it was likely how he was handling the prospects and running the system. Who knows for sure?

The bottom line is always W/L..getting a player to learn how to play in a system that results in blowout losses, you will lose the team down the line anyway. If someones teaching me to drive and i keep crashing the car, and his telling me im doing great, im going to think it's ok to crash cars, no big deal.

In other words you start excepting losing as long as you lose playing the right way, is that the culture where striving for. Because thats how fisher looks eveyday day, just another loss, doesn't bother him one bit.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:Phil is the one that made it assured that this team would have this record. He took away any chance the team had to make any kind of comeback this year. He could easily have made desperation moves to bring in some talent and sacrifice even more cap space just to win a few more games this year, but what would that have solved? He did the right thing by flushing this season and looking to start over. It's not like he went all in and did everything humanly possible to try and win this year. Phil clearly went into rebuild mode, so why would he take it out on Fish?

With regard to firing his D League coach, why is that even a big deal? They gave him a shot and decided to go with Hodges. It seems to make some sense that Phil would want one of his guys in there who knows the Triangle better and who was brought up in Phil's way of thinking. Who knows what Whitted did in terms of coaching. I can't say that I even know what kind of coach he was. Do any of us know? Maybe they did the guy a favor getting him out of there and he can go somewhere else and perhaps coach in a more comfortable situation and a style that he's more suited to coaching.

Fish is not a good coach..Phil moved JR and Shump for nothing to take the heat off Fish after being booed at MSG in January...It's cool..Just know that it isn't an excuse..The pressure will be on next year to improve...Sub 30 win team wont cut it in NY...

I have a different take on Fish. He came in green but I think he has some talent as a coach and leader of men. It would've helped him if he started the year with a healthy team and guys like JR actually bought in and did their job. No coach can succeed without talent and players buying in. The Knicks weren't losing games by big margins at the start of the year. They simply couldn't close games. We needed more production from our guards, but Jose was injured, THJ was in a sophomore slump and JR was playing like a spazz. You can't win games with poor guard play. You could see the improvement with Galloway and Shved.

With the new players added after the trade you saw a pretty stark improvement in the teams hustle and execution. They still didn't have enough talent but you can tell that with more talent this team would be functioning at a higher level and enough to win games. I simply don't think our biggest issue is Fish. If Phil builds a quality top 6 rotation this team will win games. You can imagine this team playing much better with Melo, Shved, a top pick and a few quality Free Agents making up the rotation.

dude we went from losing games in the final minutes(prior to the trades a waivers) to get blown out by the 3rd quarter, and you seen stark improvement..

It's ok for this misfits he brought in to take as long as they like to figure out the triangle, but the players that were here prior to phil, had 60 days to get it, and they were shipped out. Then you have the nerve to tell me JR was sold low just so we can get rid of shumps expiring contract..how stupid does that sound

Lets get one thing straight about phil, he has gotten rid of damn everyone that dolan gave him the option to get rid of. There's no question in my mind that if it wasn't for dolan, Houston and Mills would be out the door as well, roger hines, and the med staff too.

Anyone phil hired has zero accountabilty

Apparently you still don't get the point of what's been going on since the trade. It wasn't that he was going to fix everything that was wrong and suddenly we'd be a playoff team. Phil was clearing the decks and planning to start over. He already knew that Melo would eventually have to shut it down and at that point the team as going into full on rebuild mode. Had he made a serious of deals for better players that would eat into the cap in an effort to try and win now then I could see the problem, but that's not what he did.

The Knicks actually ran the Triangle better after the trade. The so called misfits figured it out much faster than the guys we got rid of and they played harder too. Apparently you think figuring out the Triangle means they win most of their games. One has nothing to do with the other. Everything is not about W/L's. Players can be executing the offense properly but still lose. They can be doing things right but still fail to convert because they lack the talent to create on their own, finish layups, hit open shots and FT's. If Cole does everything right in running a play and gets all the way to the basket but throws up a brick, that isn't the coach's fault. He simply isn't good enough to convert the play. The players are in the right positions and making the right passes most of the time, but actually being able to beat your man and finish a play is a separate issue. The difference is talent. That's what this summer is all about.

With the D League team I don't know that the record alone was the reason Whitted was fired. I think it was likely how he was handling the prospects and running the system. Who knows for sure?

The bottom line is always W/L..getting a player to learn how to play in a system that results in blowout losses, you will lose the team down the line anyway. If someones teaching me to drive and i keep crashing the car, and his telling me im doing great, im going to think it's ok to crash cars, no big deal.

In other words you start excepting losing as long as you lose playing the right way, is that the culture where striving for. Because thats how fisher looks eveyday day, just another loss, doesn't bother him one bit.

I think perhaps you are confusing Phil, Fish and our coaching staff with some other group of guys that have never won anything!!! What makes you think that this group of men with so many titles between them has no idea of what it takes to win or how to develop a team into a winner? Don't let this season warp your view of just who we have running things. I actually am shocked at the level of disrespect fans are giving them. I expect this kind of stuff from the know nothing Media, but as fans of not only the Knicks but the NBA this is a bit too much. These men have forgotten more about winning than any of us know. Just keep that in mind when prejudging what they're gonna be able to achieve with this team in time. This is just getting started.

Being involved on championship team, doesn't make you a teacher of champions, especially when you had ZERO TRAINING. Phil didn't just go from playing to coaching a NBA team in a MAJOR MARKET in a matter of days. He had several years of coaching on a lower level before becoming that special HEAD coach.

I've always said the Fisher is not ready by a long shot, I never said he won't amount to a solid coach down the line, much further down the line. Coaches don't have the luxury of on the job training when their getting paid like an ELITE COACH.

Phil fired a guy who was obviously not entirely on board with the system like 29 other NBA coaches who avoid it by all means. Phil and fisher are essentially trying to bring back the style of play from the 80's. Just completely caught in the pass because that's all they know.

Would you go back to using a flip phone because it's smaller and much more simpler to use.

SupremeCommander wrote:I said it at the beginning of the season and I keep saying it... this past season was a way to disguise a tank job so people would keep paying to go to games...