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The big question about Jamal Crawford...
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VDesai
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7/1/2004  9:39 AM
Another thing to consider is a 3 way deal. Perhaps Chicago wants KT, but if not there might be a team out there willing to give the Bulls a player and a pick to get him and would help facilitate us getting Craw.
AUTOADVERT
Nalod
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7/1/2004  9:41 AM
KT makes like 8mil, so we need not send any expiring deals.

We need deals to expire. how long can we this team be at double the tax threshold?

Offer Craw the MLE and see what happens. Its a lot of money.

I doubt too many teams go that much for so long.

Frank then becomes expendable unless we can move the Mooch.

We will lose Vin unless he wants the minimum. I doubt Doleac will play for that small amount. He deserves a raise.

Damp passed on 16mil on his current deal, and 18 mil extension on two years. Why would he take the MLE from anybody?

Kurt Thomas is the bait to make any big man possible.

I still think Detroit takes KT in sign and trade for Rashweed. I don't think too many teams that have room want sheed. Utah? Denver? Maybe phx, but that is not the direction they seem to be going.

With chicago having E-rob, JYD, and next year deal with Curry and chandler, and looking like Kirk is a keeper, they very well may be tapped. Isiah will put the screws to them. Its ok to put the screws to teams and make them pay up and lose options. Steinbrenner does it all the time. he bids up players so other teams need pay. Miami did it with Brand last year and was able to get odom out of it.


Let our expiring deals expire.
Bonn1997
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7/1/2004  9:56 AM
Posted by Nalod:

KT makes like 8mil, so we need not send any expiring deals.
Kurt makes $5.8 mil next season
raven
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7/1/2004  10:02 AM
doesn't he have a trade kicker ? I don't know how it works. Do you guys here have any info on that ?
Bonn1997
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7/1/2004  10:10 AM
Posted by raven:

doesn't he have a trade kicker ? I don't know how it works. Do you guys here have any info on that ?
Yeah, you're right; I think it's a 20% increase, which would bring him to $6.9 mil; he'd still be the best PF on the Bulls roster

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 07/01/2004 10:11:24]
raven
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7/1/2004  10:30 AM
here it is :


quote:
Knicks shopping Kurt Thomas around the league

By AL IANNAZZONE
STAFF WRITER


"Before the February trading deadline, Isiah Thomas nearly traded Kurt to the Spurs for Malik Rose. That deal fell through, and Kurt Thomas was given a four-year, $28 million extension that includes a 20 percent trade kicker. That may make him hard to move, but Kurt has value around the league and Isiah will keep trying to trade him."

ht
tp://www.northjersey.com/page.php? qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMjcmZmdiZWw3Zjd2c
WVlRUV5eTY1MzQ2NzEmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
bernard
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7/1/2004  10:36 AM
To me, the biggest question about Crawford is not can we get him, but do we want him. Guy is obviously very talented. But hasn't shown me much in terms of basketball smarts. Takes a lot of bad shots. Tries to make spectacular plays where a simple play would be just as effective. IMO, not a very good shooter (tho, yes, a very good scorer). He's a pretty big risk to throw 5 or 6 years at, IMO. Could easily see him not fitting in and becoming a problem, especially if Allan's back strong.

Not saying we shouldn't go after him, because, with his talent, he's got potential to be an all star, and you have to take some risks to go from a mediocre team to a great one. But I'd like to see some views on whether he's worth the risk in addtion to talk of whether we can get him.
VDesai
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7/1/2004  10:51 AM
Posted by bernard:

To me, the biggest question about Crawford is not can we get him, but do we want him. Guy is obviously very talented. But hasn't shown me much in terms of basketball smarts. Takes a lot of bad shots. Tries to make spectacular plays where a simple play would be just as effective. IMO, not a very good shooter (tho, yes, a very good scorer). He's a pretty big risk to throw 5 or 6 years at, IMO. Could easily see him not fitting in and becoming a problem, especially if Allan's back strong.

Not saying we shouldn't go after him, because, with his talent, he's got potential to be an all star, and you have to take some risks to go from a mediocre team to a great one. But I'd like to see some views on whether he's worth the risk in addtion to talk of whether we can get him.

Keep in mind he hasn't played with many veterans, and he also hasn't played with that many scorers. I think playing with established guys like Marbury and Houston could really help him. He can learn a lot about refining his game from both guys. Zeke is another great mentor.

As the the third or fourth option (rather than first or second as he was many times last year), he'll get better as far as shot selection is concerened. I don't necessarily think he's a bad shooter, but he's a streaky shooter. That doesn't mean he's gonna be come a good or great shooter, but he's not consistent yet so its hard to tell.

Yes he's risky, but we need to take calculated risks on high upside young guys. At worst he's a high scoring backup guard who plays 20-25 mins a game and can bring you 8-12 ppg.
franco12
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7/1/2004  12:03 PM
the bulls were a bad team last year and he might have fallen into the mentality of 'I need to do it all'

Kobe Bryant has been guilty of that too, and he has had his share of bad shooting games-

I think Crawford does well, his shooting percentage goes up with Marbury, IT & Lenny all telling him when to shoot and not shoot.

But, yea there is a chance that he is a bust- but he can't ever be worse than Shandon Anderson or Eisley or Weatherspoon.
raven
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7/1/2004  12:05 PM
Posted by franco12:

But, yea there is a chance that he is a bust- but he can't ever be worse than Shandon Anderson or Eisley or Weatherspoon.

did you already forget frederic weis ?
franco12
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7/1/2004  3:31 PM
Frederic Weiss was a draft pick that never even signed a contract.
TMS
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7/1/2004  3:37 PM
don't the Knicks still own his rights? would they be tradeable to a team looking to dump a comparable rookie level contract or no?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Nalod
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7/1/2004  4:20 PM
Freddie never signed with us. HE was so bad and knew it, he would not even come for summerleague.

A 14th pick! Tapscott got so EuroPHucked it was not funny!

Fred is dead, no rights worth doing anything with.
TMS
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7/1/2004  4:22 PM
an article i read recently (forgot the source) mentioned that idea, which is why i ask...i didn't think they could trade his rights, but i wanted to make sure.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
technomaster
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7/1/2004  4:57 PM
I'm a little confused about the direction the Knicks are going--- I think Isiah Thomas isn't quite sure either. There's lots of talk about needing athleticism.

I wonder how IT is selling the idea of joining the Knicks to FA prospects. What's he gonna say to Crawford?

"Oh, well, we have Marbury penned at starting PG for 40 minutes/gm... and... yeah, Houston looks like he'll be healthy, but he'll only be slated for 30 mpg... oh yeah, Jamal, you'll be first man off the bench and you can take all of Shandon and Frank Williams's minutes... oh, don't worry about it adding up only to 26 mpg... I'm sure Houston'll will be in pain forever and you'll eventually take over the starting role... or maybe we'll go 3-guard offense and shift Allan to SF for stretches, maybe we'll get you up to 30mpg that way."

Is Houston going to be our 6th man? Are Penny's minutes going to be cut completely? Maybe we'll move Tim Thomas to PF and trade away Kurt Thomas?

The math doesn't work out for me, and I don't see it working out for Jamal Crawford's agent either.

That's one thing that may not appeal to free agents-- we have a lot of depth... but not enough quality. We still have all of our starters returning. I'm not sure where Doleac/McDyess fit in either.
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Bonn1997
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7/1/2004  6:43 PM
Go with a 3 guard rotation of Marbury, Houston, and Crawford (which would probably be the best backcourt in the NBA) and play Penny exclusively as backup SF (about 18 mpg).

Marbury gets 37 mpg;
Houston gets 28 mpg (this would help prolong his career).

31 mpg are left over. You could even play Crawf 26 mpg off the bench, give 5 mpg to Penny in the backcourt plus play him as backup SF.

If you want to play Houston closer to 34 mpg, that still leaves 25 mpg for Crawford in a 3 guard rotation. (I wouldn't play Houston that many minutes, though.)
franco12
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7/1/2004  6:59 PM
48 mins x 2 = 96 / 3 = 32 mins per

I think IT sells it to Crawford as he can take over for Allan at the 2- H20 has 2 creaky knews and in reality, if Crawford is here next year, I don't think he has to worry about playing time.

And Allan isn't going to be here forever- as someone mentioned in another thread- look at Reggie Miller- when these shooters get old, they get useless fast.

Yes, Crawford might not see as many minutes next year, but down the line, he'll be in a position to star on one of the bigger stages out there.
Rich
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7/2/2004  2:22 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/17704.htm

STEPHON'S BROTHER ON SUMMER KNICKS

By MARC BERMAN

July 2, 2004 -- Rasheed Wallace isn't ready to talk yet.
So on the first day of free-agency courting period, the Knicks announced . . . their summer-league roster. The one interesting addition was Zach Marbury, brother of Stephon who went undrafted three years ago.

Camp begins Tuesday at their Westchester practice facility and they'll begin play July 10 in Long Beach, Calif., armed with an experienced starting five of center Cezary Trybanski, power forward Michael Sweetney, their second-round pick from UCLA, small forward Trevor Ariza, shooting guard DerMarr Johnson and point guard Frank Williams.

Yesterday, Isiah Thomas was holed up in his Indiana home, reaching out to free agents. Teams can't sign players to offer sheets until July 14th. As for Rasheed, he's content to take his time and won't discuss his future with agent Bill Strickland until next week at his basketball camp in Philadelphia where Pistons GM Joe Dumars is a guest speaker.

Meanwhile, Aaron Goodwin, agent for Jamal Crawford, indicated he might look for a sign-and-trade before signing a mid-level offer sheet the Knicks can provide. "If Chicago is just going to offer him the mid-level ($4.94M), he's not going back," Goodwin said. "Twenty nine teams can offer him that." Crawford is a base-year player, making trades more complicated, usually needing a third team.

Other summer-league members include Seton Hall's Andre Barrett, Ales Chan, Tim Gittens, Justin Hamilton , Trevor Harvey, David Hawkins, Anthony Myles, Rob Thomson, Brent Wright and Brett Nelson.

Copyright 2003 NYP Holdings, Inc.
joec32033
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7/2/2004  7:51 AM
Posted by Rich:

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/17704.htm

STEPHON'S BROTHER ON SUMMER KNICKS

By MARC BERMAN

July 2, 2004 -- Rasheed Wallace isn't ready to talk yet.
So on the first day of free-agency courting period, the Knicks announced . . . their summer-league roster. The one interesting addition was Zach Marbury, brother of Stephon who went undrafted three years ago.

Camp begins Tuesday at their Westchester practice facility and they'll begin play July 10 in Long Beach, Calif., armed with an experienced starting five of center Cezary Trybanski, power forward Michael Sweetney, their second-round pick from UCLA, small forward Trevor Ariza, shooting guard DerMarr Johnson and point guard Frank Williams.

Yesterday, Isiah Thomas was holed up in his Indiana home, reaching out to free agents. Teams can't sign players to offer sheets until July 14th. As for Rasheed, he's content to take his time and won't discuss his future with agent Bill Strickland until next week at his basketball camp in Philadelphia where Pistons GM Joe Dumars is a guest speaker.

Meanwhile, Aaron Goodwin, agent for Jamal Crawford, indicated he might look for a sign-and-trade before signing a mid-level offer sheet the Knicks can provide. "If Chicago is just going to offer him the mid-level ($4.94M), he's not going back," Goodwin said. "Twenty nine teams can offer him that." Crawford is a base-year player, making trades more complicated, usually needing a third team.

Other summer-league members include Seton Hall's Andre Barrett, Ales Chan, Tim Gittens, Justin Hamilton , Trevor Harvey, David Hawkins, Anthony Myles, Rob Thomson, Brent Wright and Brett Nelson.

Copyright 2003 NYP Holdings, Inc.

~You can't run from who you are.~
technomaster
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7/3/2004  11:24 AM
Posted by franco12:

48 mins x 2 = 96 / 3 = 32 mins per

I think IT sells it to Crawford as he can take over for Allan at the 2- H20 has 2 creaky knews and in reality, if Crawford is here next year, I don't think he has to worry about playing time.

And Allan isn't going to be here forever- as someone mentioned in another thread- look at Reggie Miller- when these shooters get old, they get useless fast.

Yes, Crawford might not see as many minutes next year, but down the line, he'll be in a position to star on one of the bigger stages out there.

It's all feasible for us as Knick fans, but that would require Crawford sacrificing--- this is a young player who wants minutes. Why on earth would he sign on a team where he isn't slated to be a starter when tons of other teams can offer the same MLE and a starting spot w/ 35mpg?

You'd imagine that if a player signs for big bucks, he's going to want to play. I just don't see how this would be a good situation for him. Besides, what about Frank Williams... and Shandon? Yeah, Shandon and Penny can get some PT @ SF, but we're working on evolving Tim Thomas into the next Kevin Garnett, meaning he should be getting at least 32mpg. I thought we're under the impression that Penny can still play at least 25mpg. Frank Williams would absolutely need to be traded in a Crawford scenario, since he'll get absolutely no playing time.

I think the Knicks will have a hard time recruiting big name free agents--- we have a team stocked with solid to good, but not great players, all of whom are deserving of some playing time.

I think we can easily weed out the front court a little bit; it seems as if Baker/Mutombo/Harrington/trybanski are very expendable. Isiah has perhaps overvalued Kurt Thomas with his big 8x4 contract.

Any addition to the backcourt would require some sacrifices, most likely letting go of Frank Williams in a deal (Moochie's prolly too hard to trade).
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
The big question about Jamal Crawford...

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