callmened wrote:see, even though i respect your opinion BRIGGS i dont agree. i think you have to take his career body of work (for any player actually).

yes i think OKC is a better fit cuz hes the 4th option. he can be hidden while the real stars do the work. yes he has ability but my criticism is that he DOESNT bring it every night. yes he could rebound, he could defend however he just consistently didnt do it. my concern is WHY he doesnt do it. maybe it was cuz he was young or doesnt have the ability. but my biggest concern was that he didnt have the internal desire to. we're only seeing glimpses of it now because hes on a vet okc team thats FIGHTING to win.

should the knicks pay him max money to play on a bad team? i think that would be a big eddie curry mistake. i think hed get fat and lazy again. (i dont think melo is high in the leadership department). the kid has ability and might even get better.for now hes best as a 4th option at around 8-10 mill. he still needs to grow up and maybe he reaches that max contract potential at age 26

Why would someone need to watch a player 90 times to figure something out? For example I watched Jeremy Lin against Uconn full game darting athletically through Uconns defense like an NBA player athleticism ballhandling hops jumpshot--everything--I mean going through Kamba WAlker and just reported what I saw the next morning. It doesnt take to long to evaluate a guys talent unless they are. The guys put up 21-12 58% over the last 6 games--he did get hurt at the end of the Boston game(or likely wouldve had a bigger game) but how many sample games would someone want to see--he already had 4 years in and his numbers are on a big curve upwards and just exploded after the trade. What would I be looking for to see if he shrinks in height? Utah played him out of position at pure 5 and hes a 4. Their roster was unbalanced. Can you name me even 1 guy who can average 21-12 55% in free agency--maybe Gasol maybe? and this kid is 22--EVERY criteria of spending big money is with this guy size youth skills its a no brainer. It also would allow us to expand our draft options. If we do get Jahill then maybe Id have to change opinion but Id probably still look the same way. The talent is very high./

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Kanter is a good option but if we are paying max than Monroe should be the top target. He's a little better than Kanter and a better fit. But they are close.

Not excited about either.

Monroe is a willing passer while Kanter is not.

Kanter is younger and perhaps has more upside and also has better range.

Both are not good defenders but Kanter is a lot worse.

Pass on both.

If forced to choose, I would choose Kanter (if he keeps up this new production through the rest of the season).

Monroe is a consistent player who can score, rebound, and pass. He's got upside and is always pretty durable. He's the type of player who can thrive here as he still has a ton of potential. He is also unrestricted.

just does not stretch the floor enough for me. He pretty much can't do anything outside of 3 feet.

Actually, he does pretty well in the high post area.

outside of 3 feet his shooting percentages are brutal.

He has always been a pretty good midrange player. Take a look at previous seasons. I think him slipping has more to do with him being out of place in this offense, and lack of space.

He is shooting under 35% for his career outside of 3 feet. Taking a closer look at the numbers, I can't believe he is/has been this bad outside of 3 feet. Thats a huge red flag.

This is a typical case of the eye test failing us and perhaps making us think that he is a "good" mid range shooter.

Yes, its surprising, especially since he's a solid free throw shooter. Still, he's a good scorer and great passer for a big man. Would be a great fit in the triangle. Getting consistency in his mid range game could make him an all-star. I have seen him hit jumpers while watching him, clearly its consistency that is a major issue.

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:see, even though i respect your opinion BRIGGS i dont agree. i think you have to take his career body of work (for any player actually).

yes i think OKC is a better fit cuz hes the 4th option. he can be hidden while the real stars do the work. yes he has ability but my criticism is that he DOESNT bring it every night. yes he could rebound, he could defend however he just consistently didnt do it. my concern is WHY he doesnt do it. maybe it was cuz he was young or doesnt have the ability. but my biggest concern was that he didnt have the internal desire to. we're only seeing glimpses of it now because hes on a vet okc team thats FIGHTING to win.

should the knicks pay him max money to play on a bad team? i think that would be a big eddie curry mistake. i think hed get fat and lazy again. (i dont think melo is high in the leadership department). the kid has ability and might even get better.for now hes best as a 4th option at around 8-10 mill. he still needs to grow up and maybe he reaches that max contract potential at age 26

Why would someone need to watch a player 90 times to figure something out? For example I watched Jeremy Lin against Uconn full game darting athletically through Uconns defense like an NBA player athleticism ballhandling hops jumpshot--everything--I mean going through Kamba WAlker and just reported what I saw the next morning. It doesnt take to long to evaluate a guys talent unless they are. The guys put up 21-12 58% over the last 6 games--he did get hurt at the end of the Boston game(or likely wouldve had a bigger game) but how many sample games would someone want to see--he already had 4 years in and his numbers are on a big curve upwards and just exploded after the trade. What would I be looking for to see if he shrinks in height? Utah played him out of position at pure 5 and hes a 4. Their roster was unbalanced. Can you name me even 1 guy who can average 21-12 55% in free agency--maybe Gasol maybe? and this kid is 22--EVERY criteria of spending big money is with this guy size youth skills its a no brainer. It also would allow us to expand our draft options. If we do get Jahill then maybe Id have to change opinion but Id probably still look the same way. The talent is very high./

Do you think that Phil is just watching these guys once or that the scouts are only scouting them once and just passing judgement like you? Of course not! They would lose all credibility and get used to having egg on their faces.

Do you think that you are actually better then they are? I think that you actually do ...

It was funny how you mentioned how great Kanter was doing until Kelly Olynyk came into the game, I saw what you tried to do there ...

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:see, even though i respect your opinion BRIGGS i dont agree. i think you have to take his career body of work (for any player actually).

yes i think OKC is a better fit cuz hes the 4th option. he can be hidden while the real stars do the work. yes he has ability but my criticism is that he DOESNT bring it every night. yes he could rebound, he could defend however he just consistently didnt do it. my concern is WHY he doesnt do it. maybe it was cuz he was young or doesnt have the ability. but my biggest concern was that he didnt have the internal desire to. we're only seeing glimpses of it now because hes on a vet okc team thats FIGHTING to win.

should the knicks pay him max money to play on a bad team? i think that would be a big eddie curry mistake. i think hed get fat and lazy again. (i dont think melo is high in the leadership department). the kid has ability and might even get better.for now hes best as a 4th option at around 8-10 mill. he still needs to grow up and maybe he reaches that max contract potential at age 26

Why would someone need to watch a player 90 times to figure something out? For example I watched Jeremy Lin against Uconn full game darting athletically through Uconns defense like an NBA player athleticism ballhandling hops jumpshot--everything--I mean going through Kamba WAlker and just reported what I saw the next morning. It doesnt take to long to evaluate a guys talent unless they are. The guys put up 21-12 58% over the last 6 games--he did get hurt at the end of the Boston game(or likely wouldve had a bigger game) but how many sample games would someone want to see--he already had 4 years in and his numbers are on a big curve upwards and just exploded after the trade. What would I be looking for to see if he shrinks in height? Utah played him out of position at pure 5 and hes a 4. Their roster was unbalanced. Can you name me even 1 guy who can average 21-12 55% in free agency--maybe Gasol maybe? and this kid is 22--EVERY criteria of spending big money is with this guy size youth skills its a no brainer. It also would allow us to expand our draft options. If we do get Jahill then maybe Id have to change opinion but Id probably still look the same way. The talent is very high./

Do you think that Phil is just watching these guys once or that the scouts are only scouting them once and just passing judgement like you? Of course not! They would lose all credibility and get used to having egg on their faces.

Do you think that you are actually better then they are? I think that you actually do ...

It was funny how you mentioned how great Kanter was doing until Kelly Olynyk came into the game, I saw what you tried to do there ...

They went small with Olynck and he just tweaked his ankle and took him out. If Olynck would stay healthy--he would prove to be a top 3 player in that draft. I watch the C's all the time--if this guy stays healthy--stays on the court-hes going to be one helluva player who is very hard to guard--Dirk like hard. But as far as Kanter goes--hes a no brainer. You'd be getting very high value--you'd have a post pivot who can nail the mid range jumpshot and average 20-10-3 IMHO.

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

RonRon wrote:Briggs, Kanter could be a decent player for the right team dependent on the system and other talents around him

Utah has been on fire since they traded him and started Gobert who has is McGee 2.0 on steriods with his size/lenght/athleticism, with Favors/Gobert being the better combination of FIT with the rest of the team and BLOWING out other teams

While Westbrook has been getting triple doubles and getting all the attention so Kanter could score in multiple ways, while Ibaka has the ability to cover Kanter's weakness and be the 3rd/4th man at best when Durant returns
Without Ibaka and Kanter gets exposed and is #'s could go from BIG to NOTHING

For the same reason you think we shouldn't overpay to acquire Draymond Green who is actually a leader and is a good 1v1 defender and team defender, who's impact on DEFENSE would have more of a impact compared to Kanter
Draymond Green without Curry/Klay

Without Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka, Kanter isn't a TOP 3 talent, it depends on the system and other talents around him though

It really depends on Phil's plan and vision to build a team this year or admit it will be a couple year project, if CA will be a part of us moving foward or not, if we are going to overpay for talents this year?
If we can get steals this year or not in FA....
I think Ajinca could be the better plan moving foward, depending on who we draft and which free agents we target, in addition to the above
What will Ajinca's price tag be, if Monroe goes to another team, I think Stan Van Gundy will be willing to throw a HUGE amount of money at Ajinca for a Drummond/Ajinca combo, sine he seems to love to shoot 3's with versatile PF/C's through out his coaching career

good post RonRon.

I think that I have jumped on the Draymond Green bandwagon.

I think Ron makes some good points except for he Ibaka one. Kanter has been peforming well even without Ibaka in the line up and Durant has not really played with Kanter. Did he get injured before or after Kanter? I do think that some of his success could be contributed to Westbrook. One thing Utah lacked is great guard play. It is also good to see him work well on offense with Adams, a player who doesn't stretch the floor like Ibaka does but he does do similar things as Ibaka on defense.

I would love to see Kanter's player tracking numbers for OKC and see if there is a difference.

well we don't need to make a decision on him tomorrow. If we did, I would offer him 8-10 million.

Lets see how he plays out and if he reverts to being just ok.

Of course but I think people who are arguing for Kanter are doing based on the "if he continues his good play principle".

As I looked more into his defensive numbers I would still struggle with giving Kanter anything over $10-12m. You are basically betting on potential and hoping he will improve. It sounds reasonable to think a 23 yr old big man would improve but you never know.

aside from his defense, he has not been a good player before these 12 games regardless of what people think. His offensive advanced metrics have always been bad.

Rein man can you explain to me again these metrics with lantern because my eyes are talking franchise player in the making

If I am basing his future play on these 14 games then OKC has the next Tim Duncan

If I am basing Westbrooks future on these games then they have found their own Oscar Robbinson

Lets see how this ends. Trust me, I have no problem being wrong ... I just tend to judge based on sample sizes of more than 14 games. I learned my Lin-Lesson already.

Assume we Draft Okafor and Sign Kanter. Also, assume I am right and you can't spread Calderon cause he is too old.

1) I play OK4 at the 4. You suggest Kanter is the 4, not the 5. How do you use these two together? Does it matter. How do you see them co-existing?

2) Midleton is my top FA. I know size is hard to come by, but with OK4 or even Towns, I'd be happy with Ed Davis next to them. If I maxed Midleton and Kanter using all my cap space (assume I compensate Mil and OKC in some manner to make sure these go through -- maybe Milwaukee wants GreekFreakSr. to make this work)-- $15MM each. Would you be ok filling the balance of the roster off the Vets Minimum? I think this is the way to go.

3) I would want to upgrade Calderon to a better PG. Can you dream of any arrangement where the Knicks end up with Khris Dunn (Providence) to run the PG for us? Not sure sports teams are allowed to have 2 players named Khris...but he would finish this squad for me well. If he is still on the board in the early 20s, what move do you make to grab him? Basically, anyone on my roster not named OK4 or Towns is available for him. Early and Hardaway...not sure if that does it in any event.

I am good with this lineup and fill in the blanks with our existing rookie scale contracts and vets min contracts. You can spend the additional cap space after next year when the cap increases to get the rest of your roster. Get me Dunn at the PG and I am all in.

Calderon
Midleton
Melo
Kanter
OK4 or Towns

BRIGGS wrote:Kanter tonight 25 points 16 reb 4 assists in 28 minutes. 3 rd game in 15 with at least 4 assists. Kanter is easily the top free agent

he is playing himself into being a top FA

would not say that he is ahead of Gasol, LA or Gragic

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Kanter tonight 25 points 16 reb 4 assists in 28 minutes. 3 rd game in 15 with at least 4 assists. Kanter is easily the top free agent

he is playing himself into being a top FA

would not say that he is ahead of Gasol, LA or Grag

If you consider age and the fact that he will cost $5MM per year less, its certainly looking more like him over Gasol. I already had him in front of Dragic. Ahead of Aldridge is questionable, but still, for $5MM less...

He's the number 1 free agent taking out LBJ. His age and his new production level are way to attractive to ignore. Guys like Gasol And Alridge will go into their mid 30 on their next contract on super max contracts.

BRIGGS wrote:Why would someone need to watch a player 90 times to figure something out?

Because they want to see if said player can produce consistently against different matchups, different lineups, different circumstances, to measure out his strengths and weaknesses over time?

So they ( they as in NBA scouts and GMs and analysts) don't make a reactionary decision regarding their personnel?