mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

RonRon wrote:Briggs, Kanter could be a decent player for the right team dependent on the system and other talents around him

Utah has been on fire since they traded him and started Gobert who has is McGee 2.0 on steriods with his size/lenght/athleticism, with Favors/Gobert being the better combination of FIT with the rest of the team and BLOWING out other teams

While Westbrook has been getting triple doubles and getting all the attention so Kanter could score in multiple ways, while Ibaka has the ability to cover Kanter's weakness and be the 3rd/4th man at best when Durant returns
Without Ibaka and Kanter gets exposed and is #'s could go from BIG to NOTHING

For the same reason you think we shouldn't overpay to acquire Draymond Green who is actually a leader and is a good 1v1 defender and team defender, who's impact on DEFENSE would have more of a impact compared to Kanter
Draymond Green without Curry/Klay

Without Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka, Kanter isn't a TOP 3 talent, it depends on the system and other talents around him though

It really depends on Phil's plan and vision to build a team this year or admit it will be a couple year project, if CA will be a part of us moving foward or not, if we are going to overpay for talents this year?
If we can get steals this year or not in FA....
I think Ajinca could be the better plan moving foward, depending on who we draft and which free agents we target, in addition to the above
What will Ajinca's price tag be, if Monroe goes to another team, I think Stan Van Gundy will be willing to throw a HUGE amount of money at Ajinca for a Drummond/Ajinca combo, sine he seems to love to shoot 3's with versatile PF/C's through out his coaching career

good post RonRon.

I think that I have jumped on the Draymond Green bandwagon.

I think Ron makes some good points except for he Ibaka one. Kanter has been peforming well even without Ibaka in the line up and Durant has not really played with Kanter. Did he get injured before or after Kanter? I do think that some of his success could be contributed to Westbrook. One thing Utah lacked is great guard play. It is also good to see him work well on offense with Adams, a player who doesn't stretch the floor like Ibaka does but he does do similar things as Ibaka on defense.

I would love to see Kanter's player tracking numbers for OKC and see if there is a difference.

well we don't need to make a decision on him tomorrow. If we did, I would offer him 8-10 million.

Lets see how he plays out and if he reverts to being just ok.

Of course but I think people who are arguing for Kanter are doing based on the "if he continues his good play principle".

As I looked more into his defensive numbers I would still struggle with giving Kanter anything over $10-12m. You are basically betting on potential and hoping he will improve. It sounds reasonable to think a 23 yr old big man would improve but you never know.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

RonRon wrote:Briggs, Kanter could be a decent player for the right team dependent on the system and other talents around him

Utah has been on fire since they traded him and started Gobert who has is McGee 2.0 on steriods with his size/lenght/athleticism, with Favors/Gobert being the better combination of FIT with the rest of the team and BLOWING out other teams

While Westbrook has been getting triple doubles and getting all the attention so Kanter could score in multiple ways, while Ibaka has the ability to cover Kanter's weakness and be the 3rd/4th man at best when Durant returns
Without Ibaka and Kanter gets exposed and is #'s could go from BIG to NOTHING

For the same reason you think we shouldn't overpay to acquire Draymond Green who is actually a leader and is a good 1v1 defender and team defender, who's impact on DEFENSE would have more of a impact compared to Kanter
Draymond Green without Curry/Klay

Without Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka, Kanter isn't a TOP 3 talent, it depends on the system and other talents around him though

It really depends on Phil's plan and vision to build a team this year or admit it will be a couple year project, if CA will be a part of us moving foward or not, if we are going to overpay for talents this year?
If we can get steals this year or not in FA....
I think Ajinca could be the better plan moving foward, depending on who we draft and which free agents we target, in addition to the above
What will Ajinca's price tag be, if Monroe goes to another team, I think Stan Van Gundy will be willing to throw a HUGE amount of money at Ajinca for a Drummond/Ajinca combo, sine he seems to love to shoot 3's with versatile PF/C's through out his coaching career

good post RonRon.

I think that I have jumped on the Draymond Green bandwagon.

I think Ron makes some good points except for he Ibaka one. Kanter has been peforming well even without Ibaka in the line up and Durant has not really played with Kanter. Did he get injured before or after Kanter? I do think that some of his success could be contributed to Westbrook. One thing Utah lacked is great guard play. It is also good to see him work well on offense with Adams, a player who doesn't stretch the floor like Ibaka does but he does do similar things as Ibaka on defense.

I would love to see Kanter's player tracking numbers for OKC and see if there is a difference.

well we don't need to make a decision on him tomorrow. If we did, I would offer him 8-10 million.

Lets see how he plays out and if he reverts to being just ok.

Of course but I think people who are arguing for Kanter are doing based on the "if he continues his good play principle".

As I looked more into his defensive numbers I would still struggle with giving Kanter anything over $10-12m. You are basically betting on potential and hoping he will improve. It sounds reasonable to think a 23 yr old big man would improve but you never know.

aside from his defense, he has not been a good player before these 12 games regardless of what people think. His offensive advanced metrics have always been bad.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

RonRon wrote:Briggs, Kanter could be a decent player for the right team dependent on the system and other talents around him

Utah has been on fire since they traded him and started Gobert who has is McGee 2.0 on steriods with his size/lenght/athleticism, with Favors/Gobert being the better combination of FIT with the rest of the team and BLOWING out other teams

While Westbrook has been getting triple doubles and getting all the attention so Kanter could score in multiple ways, while Ibaka has the ability to cover Kanter's weakness and be the 3rd/4th man at best when Durant returns
Without Ibaka and Kanter gets exposed and is #'s could go from BIG to NOTHING

For the same reason you think we shouldn't overpay to acquire Draymond Green who is actually a leader and is a good 1v1 defender and team defender, who's impact on DEFENSE would have more of a impact compared to Kanter
Draymond Green without Curry/Klay

Without Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka, Kanter isn't a TOP 3 talent, it depends on the system and other talents around him though

It really depends on Phil's plan and vision to build a team this year or admit it will be a couple year project, if CA will be a part of us moving foward or not, if we are going to overpay for talents this year?
If we can get steals this year or not in FA....
I think Ajinca could be the better plan moving foward, depending on who we draft and which free agents we target, in addition to the above
What will Ajinca's price tag be, if Monroe goes to another team, I think Stan Van Gundy will be willing to throw a HUGE amount of money at Ajinca for a Drummond/Ajinca combo, sine he seems to love to shoot 3's with versatile PF/C's through out his coaching career

good post RonRon.

I think that I have jumped on the Draymond Green bandwagon.

I think Ron makes some good points except for he Ibaka one. Kanter has been peforming well even without Ibaka in the line up and Durant has not really played with Kanter. Did he get injured before or after Kanter? I do think that some of his success could be contributed to Westbrook. One thing Utah lacked is great guard play. It is also good to see him work well on offense with Adams, a player who doesn't stretch the floor like Ibaka does but he does do similar things as Ibaka on defense.

I would love to see Kanter's player tracking numbers for OKC and see if there is a difference.

well we don't need to make a decision on him tomorrow. If we did, I would offer him 8-10 million.

Lets see how he plays out and if he reverts to being just ok.

Of course but I think people who are arguing for Kanter are doing based on the "if he continues his good play principle".

As I looked more into his defensive numbers I would still struggle with giving Kanter anything over $10-12m. You are basically betting on potential and hoping he will improve. It sounds reasonable to think a 23 yr old big man would improve but you never know.

aside from his defense, he has not been a good player before these 12 games regardless of what people think. His offensive advanced metrics have always been bad.

Bad or just average? Low post bigs who shoot mid range shots usually have a moderate TS% just look at Tim Duncan. There of course is a big difference and that is that Tim made up for that with great defense. However just restricting this to offense I don't think his numbers are bad. Also, his numbers in OKC look similar(slightly better) than his second yr #'s

Kanter is an interesting study offensively.

RonRon wrote:@ Briggs, just a trend that I notice that you have used when analyzing talent, especially when you are willing to pay BIG money like you did say for MAX for Reggie Jackson at one point of the season

I think you can have an eye for talent and respect your analysis on talents/players/college prospects, however, I think you put too much emphasize on

1- STAT's and NUMBERS while ignoring the other things that numbers to not show
Size/length/weight/skill sets, without the weakness's and inabilities of fits on systems/other talents on the team, to play a position that you think you can gain an advantage on with their size/height

2- Positions on talents and them being talents as the #1 or #2 or even lower roles on their teams in order to be effective

For instance, Nate Walters, Eric Green, Mike Muscula, Kelly Olynicks, putting much emphasis on these guys and thinking they could play positions that they could have an advantage with some area's but ignoring their weakness's and inabilities that come along with them playing the same position
You had some of these players at PG so they can have an advantage for size at PG, part of the reason you thought Reggie Jackson was max player in addition to the numbers he sometimes put up, especially when Westbrook was out
You had some of these guys at PF when they are Centers when they are unable to hide their weakness's at PF in order to have an advantage with size/length on PF

When you have a team that has many versatile talents and FIT together on BOTH ends, with a coaching staff that fully brings out their strengths and hides their weakness's on both OFF/DEF and rotations, then maybe it could work, however, we do not have the YOUNG Lebron James/Wade/Bosh, Jordan/Pippen, Kobe/Shaq, and Kobe/Pau/Bynum and Odom/Ariza *who had many versatile talents on both ends with DOMINANT players that we do not have....

I realize Draymond Green we would have to overpay to acquire him but that is true for IMPACT players that have versatile skill sets with great DEFENSE and leadership qualities
At the very least, if you do not think we should pay him a near max/max contract, how about AT LEAST trying to offer 2 poison pills for Draymond Green,Middleton
With trading Brandon Knight who was producing at a HIGH LEVEL and FIT for The Bucks, they have not been the same team since they acquired MCW who cannot shoot and is BALL DOMINANT like Rhondo to be effective while his shooting isn't nearly as bad as Rhondo's and can still have a chance to work on it and is still in his rookie contract
While Middleton is a RFA that the Bucks said they will match ANY OFFER for him, with his skills/size making him a poor man's Durant in some sense with his size/length and ability to shoot

I know we can offer the same one both Asik and Lin got in about

5m next year
5m when 20m cap rise
15m year after 2017 when we hopefully acquired our Durant/Whiteside, Noah or Gasol or Lopez/Roy Hibbert, Battum or WIlson CHandler or solid defenders that could shot/have versatile talents on both ends

Does anyone know the answer to the below???

While Lin's "first allegedly deal was"

5m
5m
10m
10m

But can we contruct a poison pill like this instead

5m
5m
15m
15m

Dray green has 0 chance to be a Knick. Enes Kanter if we paid a maximum FRONTLOADED contract(lets say we did draft Towns) we have a chance there. Im not sure OKC is in position to match any offer. Remember as well--ANY contract signed hit year is a 33% discount to the new cap. Many of these posts have no reality. You can post we want Dray Green 10 times but there is no chance not even 1/1000 that GSW is going to let him go--you follow them--you know Im right. They will move Lee even if it costs them multiple picks--hes gone and Green is staying.

When people back up and take reality in--the cap is going way up. This is the LAST year of contracts that can be had at @33% discount. Well go in and see Rodney Stuckey swiped back at Indiana Leonard gone day 1 Middelton gone Aldridge gone most guys that are even discussed gone team will take advantage of signing players for cheap. A 16mm per is cheap for a high end player in 2016 right--only 1/7th of the cap. Melo take 30% of the cap now. I think when free agency comes in fans will be in for a shock. Either you target and overpay or you just miss the boat. A guy like Kanter with a Towns or Stein could bring stability in the post long term.

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

RonRon wrote:Briggs, Kanter could be a decent player for the right team dependent on the system and other talents around him

Utah has been on fire since they traded him and started Gobert who has is McGee 2.0 on steriods with his size/lenght/athleticism, with Favors/Gobert being the better combination of FIT with the rest of the team and BLOWING out other teams

While Westbrook has been getting triple doubles and getting all the attention so Kanter could score in multiple ways, while Ibaka has the ability to cover Kanter's weakness and be the 3rd/4th man at best when Durant returns
Without Ibaka and Kanter gets exposed and is #'s could go from BIG to NOTHING

For the same reason you think we shouldn't overpay to acquire Draymond Green who is actually a leader and is a good 1v1 defender and team defender, who's impact on DEFENSE would have more of a impact compared to Kanter
Draymond Green without Curry/Klay

Without Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka, Kanter isn't a TOP 3 talent, it depends on the system and other talents around him though

It really depends on Phil's plan and vision to build a team this year or admit it will be a couple year project, if CA will be a part of us moving foward or not, if we are going to overpay for talents this year?
If we can get steals this year or not in FA....
I think Ajinca could be the better plan moving foward, depending on who we draft and which free agents we target, in addition to the above
What will Ajinca's price tag be, if Monroe goes to another team, I think Stan Van Gundy will be willing to throw a HUGE amount of money at Ajinca for a Drummond/Ajinca combo, sine he seems to love to shoot 3's with versatile PF/C's through out his coaching career

good post RonRon.

I think that I have jumped on the Draymond Green bandwagon.

I think Ron makes some good points except for he Ibaka one. Kanter has been peforming well even without Ibaka in the line up and Durant has not really played with Kanter. Did he get injured before or after Kanter? I do think that some of his success could be contributed to Westbrook. One thing Utah lacked is great guard play. It is also good to see him work well on offense with Adams, a player who doesn't stretch the floor like Ibaka does but he does do similar things as Ibaka on defense.

I would love to see Kanter's player tracking numbers for OKC and see if there is a difference.

well we don't need to make a decision on him tomorrow. If we did, I would offer him 8-10 million.

Lets see how he plays out and if he reverts to being just ok.

Of course but I think people who are arguing for Kanter are doing based on the "if he continues his good play principle".

As I looked more into his defensive numbers I would still struggle with giving Kanter anything over $10-12m. You are basically betting on potential and hoping he will improve. It sounds reasonable to think a 23 yr old big man would improve but you never know.

aside from his defense, he has not been a good player before these 12 games regardless of what people think. His offensive advanced metrics have always been bad.

rein is another poster who doesnt like any baskteball player:) Who u have for free agency my man? Whats the plan? Get Wes Matthews and his shattered ankle for 50mm? rein there is no magic player out there. Maybe if we get pick #1 and Towns grows 3 inches thats the player--but other than that free agency we are not dictating terms --we are playing from a position of complete weakness--we hold no rights and we can only offer less!

I was asked this the other day and I posted many names of players that I would like. I just have a different criteria than you with what I want to see in a player. I look at advanced metrics as well as watch these players. You probably watch much more college basketball than me but I watch far more NBA games.

Do you look at any metrics other than the basics? If you have a good eye for talent, don't you think you should join that with data that can give you more insight?

I do agree that it will be hard to get players here but I certainly don't want to overpay for crappy ones that just pass the eye test.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

RonRon wrote:Briggs, Kanter could be a decent player for the right team dependent on the system and other talents around him

Utah has been on fire since they traded him and started Gobert who has is McGee 2.0 on steriods with his size/lenght/athleticism, with Favors/Gobert being the better combination of FIT with the rest of the team and BLOWING out other teams

While Westbrook has been getting triple doubles and getting all the attention so Kanter could score in multiple ways, while Ibaka has the ability to cover Kanter's weakness and be the 3rd/4th man at best when Durant returns
Without Ibaka and Kanter gets exposed and is #'s could go from BIG to NOTHING

For the same reason you think we shouldn't overpay to acquire Draymond Green who is actually a leader and is a good 1v1 defender and team defender, who's impact on DEFENSE would have more of a impact compared to Kanter
Draymond Green without Curry/Klay

Without Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka, Kanter isn't a TOP 3 talent, it depends on the system and other talents around him though

It really depends on Phil's plan and vision to build a team this year or admit it will be a couple year project, if CA will be a part of us moving foward or not, if we are going to overpay for talents this year?
If we can get steals this year or not in FA....
I think Ajinca could be the better plan moving foward, depending on who we draft and which free agents we target, in addition to the above
What will Ajinca's price tag be, if Monroe goes to another team, I think Stan Van Gundy will be willing to throw a HUGE amount of money at Ajinca for a Drummond/Ajinca combo, sine he seems to love to shoot 3's with versatile PF/C's through out his coaching career

good post RonRon.

I think that I have jumped on the Draymond Green bandwagon.

I think Ron makes some good points except for he Ibaka one. Kanter has been peforming well even without Ibaka in the line up and Durant has not really played with Kanter. Did he get injured before or after Kanter? I do think that some of his success could be contributed to Westbrook. One thing Utah lacked is great guard play. It is also good to see him work well on offense with Adams, a player who doesn't stretch the floor like Ibaka does but he does do similar things as Ibaka on defense.

I would love to see Kanter's player tracking numbers for OKC and see if there is a difference.

well we don't need to make a decision on him tomorrow. If we did, I would offer him 8-10 million.

Lets see how he plays out and if he reverts to being just ok.

Of course but I think people who are arguing for Kanter are doing based on the "if he continues his good play principle".

As I looked more into his defensive numbers I would still struggle with giving Kanter anything over $10-12m. You are basically betting on potential and hoping he will improve. It sounds reasonable to think a 23 yr old big man would improve but you never know.

aside from his defense, he has not been a good player before these 12 games regardless of what people think. His offensive advanced metrics have always been bad.

Bad or just average? Low post bigs who shoot mid range shots usually have a moderate TS% just look at Tim Duncan. There of course is a big difference and that is that Tim made up for that with great defense. However just restricting this to offense I don't think his numbers are bad. Also, his numbers in OKC look similar(slightly better) than his second yr #'s

Kanter is an interesting study offensively.

his WS48 as a Jazz is .079. Thats awful.

maybe its his horrible AST : TOV ratio (on top of his TS)? you can't average .7 assists per 36 if you are in a coma. How he managed that is beyond me.

Low WS48 and being a horrible defender is not a good look for someone that we should hand out crazy contracts to.

Yes, I see that but do you also see how his 3rd year dropped his WS48. I am not saying his WS48 was great but outside of his 3rd year he was borderline average.

he was at .097 on Utah this year. Is that a guy you want to give big money to? Look at his VORP ... and any of the other advanced stats on BRef ... something is wrong here.

WaltLongmire wrote:Can we determine how much of Kanter's performance might be linked to Westbrook.

He has a great guard to work with, and until recently, Ibaka to serve as an enforcer.

Can't help but think about the Utah run, Gobert's emergence, and the fact that things got a lot better for that team after Kanter left.

A comment on his assists- he's actually had a number of games with the Thunder where he had 4 or 5 assists in a game. Have not watched their games to see how he got them- only noticed the stat because a criticism of his game has usually been the lack of assists he dishes out.

yeah ... he did have some high assists games and of course is having a great 12 games.

players don't just change overnight ... yes there has been a change in teams but that is even more alarming ... does he just have an on and off switch?

Westbrooks crazy play has also been a factor but that will come back to earth as well.

WaltLongmire wrote:Can we determine how much of Kanter's performance might be linked to Westbrook.

He has a great guard to work with, and until recently, Ibaka to serve as an enforcer.

Can't help but think about the Utah run, Gobert's emergence, and the fact that things got a lot better for that team after Kanter left.

A comment on his assists- he's actually had a number of games with the Thunder where he had 4 or 5 assists in a game. Have not watched their games to see how he got them- only noticed the stat because a criticism of his game has usually been the lack of assists he dishes out.

BRIGGS wrote:Yeah they have a guy who is playing like Bill Russell right now they moved Exum to starting PG and hes been great on the D. So up the middle they are an athletic 6-6 and 6-10 7-2. They have a great coach--ever listen to Quin Snyder? The Jazz have had the best defensive team in the league the last 20 games. The overall combination of Favors Exum and Gobert is going to be scary good. The problem here is were not the Jazz and we have no frontcourt positional players signed. Id be the first person to agree that if we had ANY chance at Kanter wed have to target either Towns or Stein.

I would say the jury is still out on exum being even a nba player...

utah is going to be very interesting if they get a top 3 pick... that is a fun fun team if you stick russell and hayward together in the backcourt...

That said, I think a lot of players will be taking the 1&1 Contract this year, meaning a 2 year contract with the right to opt out after 1. In that regard, every FA is in play. Guys taking 4 or 5 year deals are those who generally want security in their position or have doubts that they can pull big money after the cap sky rockets.

Seeing that every FA we are analyzing on this site is an RFA, it will be tough to put together contracts that do not get matched. Locking up intermediate players on 3 or 4 year contracts seems reasonable in this environment. I support going after Ajinca, Demarre Carrol, Ed Davis...and hope we can build a solid core.

BRIGGS wrote:I just want to get a solid post player capable of scoring 20-10 on a consistent basis. You could easily play guys like Aldrich Towns Admundson on the other side of him but hes the guy who drags the defense off the perimeter guys.

I believe in

Post 20-10 player

Penetrating PG capable of 15-20

and an athletic wing player who can play in and out who cna also get you 20

filled in by 3 point shooters secondary post players to go 2 big and high IQ back ups with good team depth.

Im not overly concerned with one players defense but rather if they can fit into a defensive scheme.

Yu'll see in the NCAA some tough mid major teams knock off some upper tier teams while being significantly smaller--actually C Early's tam that went 35-1 was really undersized but played defense very tough as a unit--which trumps individual defensive play

There was a good stat that the Knicks had up--core players staying together. Ive said that for 15 years--my goal is always to put 3 young guys together with the hope that they can stay together for a decade. I think that Utah is putting that together as we speak and I always want to do that. That is what Phil has done with some of these secondary players--he wants some cohesion going into next year.

So Im not overly concerned about a players weakness as long as we can compensate as a team and the said player has effect with what he does well.

Its very much like Bargnanai tonight. Without Bargs 16-10 we dont have a chance--we had other players step up Admundson Aldrich and Smith play their roles in the post and we got the quality play you want out of the guards. I thought Travis Wear also played well.

How come you are not worried about Kanters stats while on Utah??