I really like Olivier Hanlan a lot as a back up PG who has all the ability to become a primary PG in 2 years or so. But I wonder if there is a way to target and execute a plan where we get both players. I liked Dez Wells as a secondary lower round choice but I have Hanlan#21 Payton #29 all right there in the end of rd #1. They are all projected to go round 2 but not far away. Im just wondering as our team is comprised--if the excellent athletic defense Gary Payton plays would be a higher benefit towards helping us win games--if this is a player we should target based on his ability to defend at such a high level albeit from the backcourt? If we did add athletic defenders in Towns and Payton--while it wouldnt be overnight--would we set ourselves up in position to have a core of extraordinary defenders who can play both ends?

I wonder if there were any deals on the table at the deadline to move ending contracts for players with years left & to pick up draft picks in the process.

I've thought we might have been better off moving a player like Amar'e or Bargs in exchange for picks and contracts with years left on them- perhaps eat in to some of our cap room next year, and pick up some talent with upside and contract control for the first several years.

franco12 wrote:too bad we've traded all our 2nd round picks away & our first rounder next year.

I wonder if there were any deals on the table at the deadline to move ending contracts for players with years left & to pick up draft picks in the process.

I've thought we might have been better off moving a player like Amar'e or Bargs in exchange for picks and contracts with years left on them- perhaps eat in to some of our cap room next year, and pick up some talent with upside and contract control for the first several years.

BRIGGS wrote:If we made a decision to keep Shevyd and Galloway--maybe if we look at our profile--if we really take a look at our games--maybe another guard who has that ability to simply come in and get in the other teams PG grill and cause tremendous havoc would go a long way with our current personnel? This player is a tier one NBA level athlete. The fcat that he so athletic and such a good defender--maybe his jumpshot is something hat can be developed while we utilize perhaps even more important disruptive defensive skills? Hes a good slasher finisher decent passer good ballhandler--but he can athletic guard guy like John Wall Steph Curry and "maybe" that could have a tremendous value for us. His athletic ability might be something that after better thought process and what we se e with out eyes from our team--something that if we can get to it--cant pass up? You guys are right--we gave up what would be pick #31 for nothing. The value of that pick for this team is incredibly high.

Knicks trade #1
Lakers trade #5, 27 and 34

There should be a lot of opportunity to trade down

You blasted me

There is no way I would trade number 1 for anything less than 3 and other two number 1's and 2 number 2's. Thats pick 1 were talking about. You dont trade pick 1 for 5 and essentially 2 second round picks. The compensation for the number 1 pick has the value of a premium all star player.

So you say that value to this team is "incredibly high" but not high enough to trade down 4 spots from #1 to #5?

So right now your points lack conviction. The Knicks have an asset in a top 3 pick. The reality is the 4 guys at the top of this draft arent not light years above the next 4, especially when you have guys here totally emotionally vested in Towns turning the franchise around. A 19 year old averaging 9ppg and 6rebs and about 6 fouls per 40.

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If we made a decision to keep Shevyd and Galloway--maybe if we look at our profile--if we really take a look at our games--maybe another guard who has that ability to simply come in and get in the other teams PG grill and cause tremendous havoc would go a long way with our current personnel? This player is a tier one NBA level athlete. The fcat that he so athletic and such a good defender--maybe his jumpshot is something hat can be developed while we utilize perhaps even more important disruptive defensive skills? Hes a good slasher finisher decent passer good ballhandler--but he can athletic guard guy like John Wall Steph Curry and "maybe" that could have a tremendous value for us. His athletic ability might be something that after better thought process and what we se e with out eyes from our team--something that if we can get to it--cant pass up? You guys are right--we gave up what would be pick #31 for nothing. The value of that pick for this team is incredibly high.

How high? Because when I mentioned:

Knicks trade #1
Lakers trade #5, 27 and 34

There should be a lot of opportunity to trade down

You blasted me

There is no way I would trade number 1 for anything less than 3 and other two number 1's and 2 number 2's. Thats pick 1 were talking about. You dont trade pick 1 for 5 and essentially 2 second round picks. The compensation for the number 1 pick has the value of a premium all star player.

So you say that value to this team is "incredibly high" but not high enough to trade down 4 spots from #1 to #5?

So right now your points lack conviction. The Knicks have an asset in a top 3 pick. The reality is the 4 guys at the top of this draft arent not light years above the next 4, especially when you have guys here totally emotionally vested in Towns turning the franchise around. A 19 year old averaging 9ppg and 6rebs and about 6 fouls per 40.

Not in the value of moving from pick #1 fishmike--not even close. Take it the other way--would you want to move out from pick 1 downm to 5 just to pick up 2 second rounders that you could potentially find a different way to acquire? You're giving up Okafor and Towns. I just dont see any team even considering something like this. The compensation would have to be dramatically higher--again pick #1.

Just to show a glimpse of his length and athletic ability---a John Starks type of dunk.

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If we made a decision to keep Shevyd and Galloway--maybe if we look at our profile--if we really take a look at our games--maybe another guard who has that ability to simply come in and get in the other teams PG grill and cause tremendous havoc would go a long way with our current personnel? This player is a tier one NBA level athlete. The fcat that he so athletic and such a good defender--maybe his jumpshot is something hat can be developed while we utilize perhaps even more important disruptive defensive skills? Hes a good slasher finisher decent passer good ballhandler--but he can athletic guard guy like John Wall Steph Curry and "maybe" that could have a tremendous value for us. His athletic ability might be something that after better thought process and what we se e with out eyes from our team--something that if we can get to it--cant pass up? You guys are right--we gave up what would be pick #31 for nothing. The value of that pick for this team is incredibly high.

How high? Because when I mentioned:

Knicks trade #1
Lakers trade #5, 27 and 34

There should be a lot of opportunity to trade down

You blasted me

There is no way I would trade number 1 for anything less than 3 and other two number 1's and 2 number 2's. Thats pick 1 were talking about. You dont trade pick 1 for 5 and essentially 2 second round picks. The compensation for the number 1 pick has the value of a premium all star player.

So you say that value to this team is "incredibly high" but not high enough to trade down 4 spots from #1 to #5?

So right now your points lack conviction. The Knicks have an asset in a top 3 pick. The reality is the 4 guys at the top of this draft arent not light years above the next 4, especially when you have guys here totally emotionally vested in Towns turning the franchise around. A 19 year old averaging 9ppg and 6rebs and about 6 fouls per 40.

disagree with this fish. while i do like a guy like stanley johnson, i dont think his potential is in the same ballpark as towns, okafor, mudiay and russel. i do agree with you though for sure, about towns (way too many posters here are emotionally invtested in whether or not we take him) and he hasn't put up amazing stats. i do think he's going to be the top overall player from this draft in a few years to come. his combination of size, athleticism and offensive ability i think are going to shine through when offenses are based around him. he would fit pretty damn well in the triangle too. atleast we know one thing about all these kentucky guys - they have no problem fitting into a team concept and aren't me-first type guys.

After OK4 the talent may not drop off much but the certainty does. I agree with your assesment of Towns playing in a system. He seems great and I like him alot. But at 9ppg and 6rebs he is NOT dominating his peers, and he plays off Stein a ton. Mario Hezonja might be the best player in the draft. Russell may be. Towns may be. Stanley Johnson may be. A case can be made for anyone... the only sure things I see are OK4 and Russell and they have their own set of critics calling them high output lower ceiling guys.

Pick 1 = OK4 no brainer. After that Im pretty open and listening.

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If we made a decision to keep Shevyd and Galloway--maybe if we look at our profile--if we really take a look at our games--maybe another guard who has that ability to simply come in and get in the other teams PG grill and cause tremendous havoc would go a long way with our current personnel? This player is a tier one NBA level athlete. The fcat that he so athletic and such a good defender--maybe his jumpshot is something hat can be developed while we utilize perhaps even more important disruptive defensive skills? Hes a good slasher finisher decent passer good ballhandler--but he can athletic guard guy like John Wall Steph Curry and "maybe" that could have a tremendous value for us. His athletic ability might be something that after better thought process and what we se e with out eyes from our team--something that if we can get to it--cant pass up? You guys are right--we gave up what would be pick #31 for nothing. The value of that pick for this team is incredibly high.

How high? Because when I mentioned:

Knicks trade #1
Lakers trade #5, 27 and 34

There should be a lot of opportunity to trade down

You blasted me

There is no way I would trade number 1 for anything less than 3 and other two number 1's and 2 number 2's. Thats pick 1 were talking about. You dont trade pick 1 for 5 and essentially 2 second round picks. The compensation for the number 1 pick has the value of a premium all star player.

So you say that value to this team is "incredibly high" but not high enough to trade down 4 spots from #1 to #5?

So right now your points lack conviction. The Knicks have an asset in a top 3 pick. The reality is the 4 guys at the top of this draft arent not light years above the next 4, especially when you have guys here totally emotionally vested in Towns turning the franchise around. A 19 year old averaging 9ppg and 6rebs and about 6 fouls per 40.

disagree with this fish. while i do like a guy like stanley johnson, i dont think his potential is in the same ballpark as towns, okafor, mudiay and russel. i do agree with you though for sure, about towns (way too many posters here are emotionally invtested in whether or not we take him) and he hasn't put up amazing stats. i do think he's going to be the top overall player from this draft in a few years to come. his combination of size, athleticism and offensive ability i think are going to shine through when offenses are based around him. he would fit pretty damn well in the triangle too. atleast we know one thing about all these kentucky guys - they have no problem fitting into a team concept and aren't me-first type guys.

Im not trading pick 1 no matter what. OK4 is a 20/8 center who will score at 55-60%. A true building block piece for 4 years at a reasonable contract. Having that piece moving forward trumps everything else. After that its question marks. The only thing derailing OK4 would be injuries, but it was nice to see him play banged up the other night and still be very effective.

After OK4 the talent may not drop off much but the certainty does. I agree with your assesment of Towns playing in a system. He seems great and I like him alot. But at 9ppg and 6rebs he is NOT dominating his peers, and he plays off Stein a ton. Mario Hezonja might be the best player in the draft. Russell may be. Towns may be. Stanley Johnson may be. A case can be made for anyone... the only sure things I see are OK4 and Russell and they have their own set of critics calling them high output lower ceiling guys.

Pick 1 = OK4 no brainer. After that Im pretty open and listening.

i dont disagree with a thing you said. i'd have a really touch choice choosing between okafor and towns, i personally would take towns (i just happen to think his ceiling is higher), but give me okafor and i'm just as happy - i think they both have long nba careers. i do believe you can already pencil in okafor 20/8, he's more of a sure-bet than towns is, which is maybe something we should consider, based on our somewhat jaded history the past 30 years. totally agree with you about okafor's game the other night, alot of people questioned whether or not he'd even play and he played fantastic, definitely a nice check-mark for him.

let's just hope we get the #1 pick and let pjax choose between everyone. no matter what anyone says about pjax, i'm every confident in who he picks.

gunsnewing wrote:I think what you are seeing is people were emotionally invested in Ok4 initially including the media but now Towns is emerging as the best player in the draft so a lot more people are saying they would take him #1. Even the media and draft experts now

i gotta be honest bro - i dont think anyone on this board has been invested in okafor, but i do feel that way about towns. as i said previously, i would take towns over okafor PERSONALLY, but i think it's a tossup.

earthmansurfer wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If we made a decision to keep Shevyd and Galloway--maybe if we look at our profile--if we really take a look at our games--maybe another guard who has that ability to simply come in and get in the other teams PG grill and cause tremendous havoc would go a long way with our current personnel? This player is a tier one NBA level athlete. The fcat that he so athletic and such a good defender--maybe his jumpshot is something hat can be developed while we utilize perhaps even more important disruptive defensive skills? Hes a good slasher finisher decent passer good ballhandler--but he can athletic guard guy like John Wall Steph Curry and "maybe" that could have a tremendous value for us. His athletic ability might be something that after better thought process and what we se e with out eyes from our team--something that if we can get to it--cant pass up? You guys are right--we gave up what would be pick #31 for nothing. The value of that pick for this team is incredibly high.

How high? Because when I mentioned:

Knicks trade #1
Lakers trade #5, 27 and 34

There should be a lot of opportunity to trade down

You blasted me

There is no way I would trade number 1 for anything less than 3 and other two number 1's and 2 number 2's. Thats pick 1 were talking about. You dont trade pick 1 for 5 and essentially 2 second round picks. The compensation for the number 1 pick has the value of a premium all star player.

So you say that value to this team is "incredibly high" but not high enough to trade down 4 spots from #1 to #5?

So right now your points lack conviction. The Knicks have an asset in a top 3 pick. The reality is the 4 guys at the top of this draft arent not light years above the next 4, especially when you have guys here totally emotionally vested in Towns turning the franchise around. A 19 year old averaging 9ppg and 6rebs and about 6 fouls per 40.

disagree with this fish. while i do like a guy like stanley johnson, i dont think his potential is in the same ballpark as towns, okafor, mudiay and russel. i do agree with you though for sure, about towns (way too many posters here are emotionally invtested in whether or not we take him) and he hasn't put up amazing stats. i do think he's going to be the top overall player from this draft in a few years to come. his combination of size, athleticism and offensive ability i think are going to shine through when offenses are based around him. he would fit pretty damn well in the triangle too. atleast we know one thing about all these kentucky guys - they have no problem fitting into a team concept and aren't me-first type guys.

Im not trading pick 1 no matter what. OK4 is a 20/8 center who will score at 55-60%. A true building block piece for 4 years at a reasonable contract. Having that piece moving forward trumps everything else. After that its question marks. The only thing derailing OK4 would be injuries, but it was nice to see him play banged up the other night and still be very effective.

After OK4 the talent may not drop off much but the certainty does. I agree with your assesment of Towns playing in a system. He seems great and I like him alot. But at 9ppg and 6rebs he is NOT dominating his peers, and he plays off Stein a ton. Mario Hezonja might be the best player in the draft. Russell may be. Towns may be. Stanley Johnson may be. A case can be made for anyone... the only sure things I see are OK4 and Russell and they have their own set of critics calling them high output lower ceiling guys.

Pick 1 = OK4 no brainer. After that Im pretty open and listening.

Towns is on a team with 4 other first round NBA talents, this year. I really don't think we can compare Okafur to Towns just with Stats. There is a lot more to Towns (and Okafur) that what is in the box score. Not saying that you don't see the other things.

It is almost scary to think what would happen if Towns had Okafurs chances out there? Would his numbers be similar?
I would go for the two way player in Towns (I'm leaning there anyway). I really think a center who can score AND play GREAT defense trumps the incredible, but offensively minded center.

The last time I can remember a player being touted like Towns, despite it not showing statistically.. well that player bombed. His skills and athleticism were off the charts. He was a (if not the) most recruited HS player. He left after a statistically modest freshman campain because everyone knew his skill set was perfect for the NBA. He was picked #2 in the draft ahead of Deron Williams and Chris Paul... Anyone remember that player?

Be very carefull picking soley based on potential. It 100% counts as something to dominate your peers. You can tell the people who are emotionally vested in Towns, because they see this as an attack on their golden mooby. Its not. I like Towns alot as a prospect. Picking a guy #2 in the NBA draft who doesnt fill out the stat sheet in college is a huge risk. Everything Ive read about Towns is great. When he see him play I see a long athletic guy who plays a role on his team. He's not the defensive anchor. He's not the primary offensive weapon. So your picking player who you hope can develop those traits at the NBA level.

Towns looks like he will be a great player. At 25. If anyone could benefit from 2 more years of school its Towns. He could just as easliy be the next Javale McGee as he could be great. Because thats the type of player he's SHOWING right now. Its that simple.

gunsnewing wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If we made a decision to keep Shevyd and Galloway--maybe if we look at our profile--if we really take a look at our games--maybe another guard who has that ability to simply come in and get in the other teams PG grill and cause tremendous havoc would go a long way with our current personnel? This player is a tier one NBA level athlete. The fcat that he so athletic and such a good defender--maybe his jumpshot is something hat can be developed while we utilize perhaps even more important disruptive defensive skills? Hes a good slasher finisher decent passer good ballhandler--but he can athletic guard guy like John Wall Steph Curry and "maybe" that could have a tremendous value for us. His athletic ability might be something that after better thought process and what we se e with out eyes from our team--something that if we can get to it--cant pass up? You guys are right--we gave up what would be pick #31 for nothing. The value of that pick for this team is incredibly high.

How high? Because when I mentioned:

Knicks trade #1
Lakers trade #5, 27 and 34

There should be a lot of opportunity to trade down

You blasted me

There is no way I would trade number 1 for anything less than 3 and other two number 1's and 2 number 2's. Thats pick 1 were talking about. You dont trade pick 1 for 5 and essentially 2 second round picks. The compensation for the number 1 pick has the value of a premium all star player.

So you say that value to this team is "incredibly high" but not high enough to trade down 4 spots from #1 to #5?

So right now your points lack conviction. The Knicks have an asset in a top 3 pick. The reality is the 4 guys at the top of this draft arent not light years above the next 4, especially when you have guys here totally emotionally vested in Towns turning the franchise around. A 19 year old averaging 9ppg and 6rebs and about 6 fouls per 40.

disagree with this fish. while i do like a guy like stanley johnson, i dont think his potential is in the same ballpark as towns, okafor, mudiay and russel. i do agree with you though for sure, about towns (way too many posters here are emotionally invtested in whether or not we take him) and he hasn't put up amazing stats. i do think he's going to be the top overall player from this draft in a few years to come. his combination of size, athleticism and offensive ability i think are going to shine through when offenses are based around him. he would fit pretty damn well in the triangle too. atleast we know one thing about all these kentucky guys - they have no problem fitting into a team concept and aren't me-first type guys.

Im not trading pick 1 no matter what. OK4 is a 20/8 center who will score at 55-60%. A true building block piece for 4 years at a reasonable contract. Having that piece moving forward trumps everything else. After that its question marks. The only thing derailing OK4 would be injuries, but it was nice to see him play banged up the other night and still be very effective.

After OK4 the talent may not drop off much but the certainty does. I agree with your assesment of Towns playing in a system. He seems great and I like him alot. But at 9ppg and 6rebs he is NOT dominating his peers, and he plays off Stein a ton. Mario Hezonja might be the best player in the draft. Russell may be. Towns may be. Stanley Johnson may be. A case can be made for anyone... the only sure things I see are OK4 and Russell and they have their own set of critics calling them high output lower ceiling guys.

Pick 1 = OK4 no brainer. After that Im pretty open and listening.

Towns is on a team with 4 other first round NBA talents, this year. I really don't think we can compare Okafur to Towns just with Stats. There is a lot more to Towns (and Okafur) that what is in the box score. Not saying that you don't see the other things.

It is almost scary to think what would happen if Towns had Okafurs chances out there? Would his numbers be similar?
I would go for the two way player in Towns (I'm leaning there anyway). I really think a center who can score AND play GREAT defense trumps the incredible, but offensively minded center.

I don't think you are going to convince him Earth. He is convinced Towns defensive stats look good because he's playing next to Stein.
Imo Stein looks better this year because he is playing next to Towns.

I love Stein next to a player like MONROE or OK4 though

I get he's your golden mooby... the logic of taking him at #2 is beyond flawed.

I thought we learned our lessons from picking on potential with Marvin Willaims, Darko, Skita.. etc etc.. I guess not.