nixluva wrote:I have all kind so problems with this post.

1. The very fact that they kept Bargs and wanted to see him take advantage of this opportunity to be a source of scoring is a very strong indicator that they would like to keep him around. However, they can't truly assess that unless they see him play significant minutes and prove that he can produce.

2. We're not officially tanking like Philly is. What we saw happen the last 2 games was about more than just Bargs. Many other players stepped up and performed at a higher level. It may be that there's a natural process of development going on and we may naturally find our selves winning more games and losing the top lottery position. These players have been working all this time to try and improve and that may be what is happening.

3. At this point what in particular are you suggesting the Knicks do with Bargs? They can't trade Bargs and just releasing him for no reason isn't an option. They literally have no choice but to let this play out. It seems to me that the most likely thing to happen if Bargs finishes the season healthy is for them to make some kind of offer to him for next year.

4. As for the Draft I think it's going a bit overboard to suggest that we can't get a player who can help this team after pick 4. There are a good number of quality prospects in this draft. IMO all the way out to 10-12 there could be very good players we can pick up. It's impossible to predict just how good players will be in the NBA and every year guys later in the draft turn out to be much better players than their draft position would suggest.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:I have all kind so problems with this post.

1. The very fact that they kept Bargs and wanted to see him take advantage of this opportunity to be a source of scoring is a very strong indicator that they would like to keep him around. However, they can't truly assess that unless they see him play significant minutes and prove that he can produce.

2. We're not officially tanking like Philly is. What we saw happen the last 2 games was about more than just Bargs. Many other players stepped up and performed at a higher level. It may be that there's a natural process of development going on and we may naturally find our selves winning more games and losing the top lottery position. These players have been working all this time to try and improve and that may be what is happening.

3. At this point what in particular are you suggesting the Knicks do with Bargs? They can't trade Bargs and just releasing him for no reason isn't an option. They literally have no choice but to let this play out. It seems to me that the most likely thing to happen if Bargs finishes the season healthy is for them to make some kind of offer to him for next year.

4. As for the Draft I think it's going a bit overboard to suggest that we can't get a player who can help this team after pick 4. There are a good number of quality prospects in this draft. IMO all the way out to 10-12 there could be very good players we can pick up. It's impossible to predict just how good players will be in the NBA and every year guys later in the draft turn out to be much better players than their draft position would suggest.

IF they have no
intention of keeping Bargnani then even 1 minute wasted on him as an active player is one to many. We have less than .001% probability of making the playoffs this year--so if we use logic--that is no longer a goal or reality. Logic dictates we play the guys we feel will move forward with us and the fact that we are undermanned in the post will keep us on track to higher draft odds, the only thing this season has any meaning for. I value the next ten years much more so than the last 24 games that have absolutely 0 value other than observation of player development. The correct move would've been to RELEASE Bargnani after the All star break. There is a high majority opinion that the draft falls WAY off after pick #4. Because we were stupid enough to not put any protection on the Bargnani trade--we have NO draft in 2016. With restricted free agency and a climbing cap--it give teams HIGH incentive to keep good players--making it aht much more difficult to find and sign players. The draft is crucial and while every team may win games--no one "tanks it" but they do go into development mode and by playing Bargnani major minutes--it could materially affect our W_L record in terms of draft seeding. I urge the Knicks to deactivate Bargnani and go into the D league for replacement IF they have no intention of keeping him.

They KNOW that Bargs is the one guy who has the talent to give them some of the scoring they lost with Melo being out. They've said as much openly. This means they were trying to win games or at least be very competitive. The same goes for bringing in Shved. They didn't have to do that, but felt he could give them something and also be a possible player they could bring back. The Knicks are not trying to tank or even go into full developmental mode.

What this tells me is that they're not putting all their eggs in the Draft basket. They want to develop players on the team now and look to Free Agency to find PROVEN talent they can depend on going forward. It seems crystal clear to me that this is their thinking. The Knicks are trying to start the rebuilding process right now. It's clear they look at the draft as only one part of the overall process and not the whole shebang.

What briggs is saying in nut shell, Please stop developing these players, please stop developing the coaching staff, we want them to get it wrong every night, so come next season, they will still have that losing mentality.

This not the time for galloway to build his confidence, we need galloway to miss those clutch shots, we need for these players to take 6 ft's in a game, not 25, they'll win like that, and we can't have that now. If galloway AB, and Shved look like they can thrive in this system, well that's terrible, Who needs those guys learning how to win, it best to bring 12 new guys and see if they can play in the system.

Doesn't make sense to keep guys who have played and had some success, nooooo way, we don't won't those types right briggs?

SMDH

gunsnewing wrote:San Antonio, Cleveland & Miami weren't worried about players developing a loser mentality when they went full tank for Duncan, Lebron & Wade

You have to acknowledge that all of these situations are different. In our case we don't have a pick in 2016 and can't just take a blasé approach to rebuilding the team. We have a ton of guys to evaluate on this roster and so they can't just abdicate their duties as coaches and players. They have to actually keep doing their jobs.

Phil wasn't kidding when he was talking about Bargs possibly surprising people. He felt the guy would fit the system. So as much as people want to bash him for how idiots like JR didn't work out, he was right about the kind of players he feels can work and that is being demonstrated on a lower level right now. These players were showing what they can do in this system. It doesn't matter right now how many of them have a contract here for next year. If the prove they belong they'll be offered a contract.

I think Bargs could be one of those players. We'll see how things go the rest of the way. But get used to the idea that we may not end up with the top lottery spot. The Knicks aren't in full tank mode like Philly is. My guess is that we'll fall back a spot or 2 by the time this is all said and done. People thought the Knicks were the worst team in the NBA and perhaps in history but Hinkie has made sure that Philly will be that team.

LA Lakers	16	42	.276	30 ½	9-20	7-22	2-9	7-30	99.6	106.1	-6.4	Lost 1	3-7
Minnesota	13	45	.224	33 ½	8-22	5-23	2-7	5-29	97.7	105.5	-7.8	Lost 2	5-5
Philadelphia	13	47	.217	34 ½	8-21	5-26	1-11	9-29	90.3	100.8	-10.5	Lost 2	2-8
New York	12	46	.207	34 ½	8-21	4-25	4-7	8-30	93.0	100.9	-7.9	Won 2	2-8

TPercy wrote:Why not do combine and do both?

That's what i've been saying. It's a delicate balance of player development and at that same time not going all out to win as if they're making the playoffs or something. I think they know this team ins't strong enough to really win so much that they'll get out of the top of lottery. I don't think tho that the Knicks will lose more than the Sixers who are clearly tanking hard and not setup to win. As for the players on this team that will be brought back I think they do intend to try and keep Bargs. He's not old and if he can get his body right he can be a good player in this system.

We've got too many young players that need more development to just stop trying. These last 2 games have been good for the young players development. The Knicks are going to lose games they aren't good enough to really win enough to totally ruin their lotto spot, but I just think Philly is so bad now that we'll win more than them.