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The Suns traded Marbury and Penny for
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Bonn1997
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6/24/2004  8:22 PM
They've been trading picks for cash and it looks like Vujanic will stay in Europe and McDyess may leave. It looks like they traded Starbury and Penny for

Maceij Lampe
Howard Eisley
Charlie Ward
$$$
AUTOADVERT
Rich
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6/24/2004  8:44 PM
THey traded them to save money. They accomplished their goal.
Bonn1997
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6/24/2004  8:46 PM
Posted by Rich:

THey traded them to save money. They accomplished their goal.
I know; the real losers are the Suns' fans
Chico
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6/24/2004  10:01 PM
your thesis' are not correct. The true value in the trade for the Suns was moving two longterm contracts, one of which (penny's) is widely considered the worst dollar for skill contract in the entire league (besides allan Houston of course). They're reloading. Its possible they came to the conclusion that Stephon isn't a winner. I myself haven't come to that conclusion yet, but plenty of others have. But for you to just list those players and say they got the better deal just based on talent is a worthless assumption. its a business and size and length of contract is just as valid as talent.
Bonn1997
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6/24/2004  10:31 PM
Posted by Chico:

your thesis' are not correct. The true value in the trade for the Suns was moving two longterm contracts, one of which (penny's) is widely considered the worst dollar for skill contract in the entire league (besides allan Houston of course). They're reloading. Its possible they came to the conclusion that Stephon isn't a winner. I myself haven't come to that conclusion yet, but plenty of others have. But for you to just list those players and say they got the better deal just based on talent is a worthless assumption. its a business and size and length of contract is just as valid as talent.
Penny has a short-term contract (2 yrs left) and wasn't doing the team any harm as far as Ws are concerned. The trade looked great when it happened, but looks even better now.
toodarkmark
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6/24/2004  10:54 PM
The Suns may be all about clearing up space, but it doesnt gurantee anything. Look what happened to the Bulls. The Knicks pulled off a great trade, Stephon and Penny being two good to great players for this team. And we got rid of Howard Eisley. I think that Layden had 5 years to ruin this team, and handcuff them with horrible contracts. You cant expect Isiah to fix it in half a year. People are already wanting moves that will create a champion, but you need time. He is rebuilding and let's see what happens not only in this offseason, but in the next two. If in 3 years we are not a serious contender, then start to question, but really, half a year? After what Layden did?
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
Chico
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6/24/2004  11:06 PM
penny is definitely not good or great.
toodarkmark
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6/24/2004  11:55 PM
Posted by Chico:

penny is definitely not good or great.

He's a good player. And he's better than Howard Eisley, and far more useful as an expiring contract in 2 years than M Lampe or the #16 pick would be. He is good for 25 minutes, 10 points including hitting some big shots, some rebounds and some assists.
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
raven
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6/25/2004  2:59 AM
two months from here, the suns may have signed kobe.

how would the trade look like then ?

Comparing 2 parts of a deal is a bad way of dealing with trades.

trades are not made so that one can fleece the other.

Trades are made so that everybody wins something from a change of cards.

we "won" talent wise, but we "lost" on the financial aspect. The sape finanacial aspect that prevent us to run after kobe, sheed...

for once, look at what we got, and let the others deal with the other side of the coin.
Bonn1997
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6/25/2004  5:17 AM
Posted by raven:

two months from here, the suns may have signed kobe.

how would the trade look like then ?

Comparing 2 parts of a deal is a bad way of dealing with trades.

trades are not made so that one can fleece the other.

Trades are made so that everybody wins something from a change of cards.

we "won" talent wise, but we "lost" on the financial aspect. The sape finanacial aspect that prevent us to run after kobe, sheed...

for once, look at what we got, and let the others deal with the other side of the coin.
You care to place a bet on whether the Suns get Kobe? Or how about which team--the Knicks or the Suns--finishes with a better record next year?
raven
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6/25/2004  7:50 AM
no offense to you bonnie, but I think you must have not read one word of my post.

this trade was about 2 kinds of logic. Short versus long term.
In my mind, next yr is still pretty short, that's why, of course, we'll finish with a better record than the suns. Never did i say the opposite.

What I said and still say is that the suns got something they needed while we got something we needed. from that point of view, we got a player and lsot millions, they saved money to build a new team.

Who is right ? Who is wrong ? Who won ? Who lost ?

I have no crystal ball and I'm not interested in that kind of debates. I'm just still happy we got rid of some crap and got a potential first tier player in marbury.

peace.
Silverfuel
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6/25/2004  7:54 AM
Posted by Chico:

penny is definitely not good or great.
He is definately a good player. Without a doubt.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
VDesai
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6/25/2004  9:30 AM
I don't want to shout take back the trade or anything, because so far it has worked out well. But watching the no.16 pick be Kirk Snyder, a player I really, really like, was a bit dissapointing.
TMS
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6/25/2004  9:46 AM
if the Suns did this all for cap space to sign a FA, then most likely, at best, they'll end up w/Steve Nash out of it...if you ask me, i'd rather have Marbury & Penny...so i guess it was just about saving money, & not really about making the team better necessarily.
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raven
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6/25/2004  9:57 AM
if saving money was their goal, nobody here can say that they didn't reached it.

my point of view is that we all got what we wanted.

btw in that situation, I would'nt like to be a suns fan.
eViL
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6/25/2004  11:24 AM
Posted by raven:

we "won" talent wise, but we "lost" on the financial aspect. The sape finanacial aspect that prevent us to run after kobe, sheed...

I agree with you. We won the talent side of the deal and Phoenix won some financial flexibility. But we all know that the Marbury trade isn't what got us in this huge financial mess. We would have had a hard time signing FA's regardless.
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raven
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6/25/2004  11:59 AM
exactly. We weren't goinb under the cap before several lifetimes, so why care ?

we're deeper in luxuary tax land, but what is the difference between 25 and 35 and 45 over the cap ? You still have a MLE. Dolan has to deal with the tax, not us.

Only difference is that you could get out of that earlier.

I don't believe in total rebuilding. We'll have some good expiring contracts soon. That is wealth in today's nba.

I do hope we could stioll get jerome james and their 12th pick for KT.

Another expiring contract, another young guy.

Othella, deke, trybansky and soon maybe jerome james. that's a good hand for teams which may want to unlaod salary don't you think ?
Silverfuel
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6/25/2004  12:37 PM
Posted by raven:

I do hope we could stioll get jerome james and their 12th pick for KT.
I dunno about Jerome James man. I would rather we stay away from him.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
gunsnewing
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6/25/2004  3:43 PM
KT and Frank is too much for James and Flip. I would love the Stack for Kurt trade though
Bonn1997
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6/25/2004  4:11 PM
Posted by TMS:

if the Suns did this all for cap space to sign a FA, then most likely, at best, they'll end up w/Steve Nash out of it...if you ask me, i'd rather have Marbury & Penny...so i guess it was just about saving money, & not really about making the team better necessarily.

Exactly; this trade may have worked financially for the owners, and it's sad when owners kill a team and f--- their fans to save money. Pheonix just doesn't have the fan base to support a high enough pay roll to keep their top players. If they remain a lottery team, they'll probably want to trade Marion at some point. Why pay a player max dollars when you're stuck in the lottery?
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