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Nalod
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6/23/2004  9:48 AM

"We just have to find unconventional ways and depend on players we have and try to make them better. We're waiting for Santa Claus to come." Isiah www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/26285.htm

The reality of the salary we have vs. the buzz we create here, or feed off the media is that we really did our upgrading last year and now have to tweek it, and refine thru chemistry building.

THe east is improving which makes it difficult. Teams will suffle talent around and some will win, and some will lose. We got Steph in this draft and we can just sit back and wait for the season.

Guys want to come to NY, but no money to pay them.

IM not bitching, just realizing that Isiah upgraded the team short term and if management is sincere about creating a winner, it will take longer this way, but more entertaining in the short term than blowing it up.

This is not terrible. We just must wait for deals to expire and not take on more and more salary. We need expiring deals to expire ourselves, not take on marginally better talent with longer deals than we give up. THis takes some of the fun out of internet chatter and proposed fantasy trades. Guys like penny and moochie are better than Fatspoon and Eisley, but they are not taking us anywhere. Shandon is stuck on the books, and Allans deal not going away. We can hope Allan returns to form after one bad injury year. That will be a huge addition, along with sweets and frank increased talent, makes for a better outlook. Not championship quality, but enough to keep us interested. Vin makes for a good story in his comeback quest and can contribute. TT can go to charm school this summer and get his cred together.

The team is pointed in a better direction no doubt. Isiah will keep us excited from time to time, but I'd rather do little than continue to mortgage the future for an instant buzz. I believe this is the plan of management and if a good deal falls in our laps, so be it, but it only happens with good players with cap friendly deals.

I hope we can get chris Duhan of duke with 2nd round.

AUTOADVERT
tkf
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6/23/2004  10:04 AM
Nalod, I agree and even the Nets coach Frank said the nets were going to have to improve within.. Lets face it, Layden really handcuffed this team with the salaries of Houston, and Anderson.... Those two deals were killer, and eisley and spoon deals are still hurting us because we just turned those deals into moochie and to some extent penny... We are just going to have to wait as you said... Maybe we will turn a trade for frankie and some expiring deals, but this knicks team will have to get better on its own.. Lets hope that sweetney and Dermarr have better years, that alone will help the knicks a long way, but we need to forget the dreams of Kobe, shaq and sheed.. this is not happenning....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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6/23/2004  10:07 AM
chris Duhon as well as darius rice would be nice players, these are the type of guys that slip to the second round because they are view as " low potential" players, and that is BS, just because they are not 18 doesn't mean that they have no potential to get better, this is the thinking that kept teams from getting talent like Boozer and Redd.. I hope we find such a player with our late pick..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
raven
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6/23/2004  10:11 AM
Posted by tkf:

Nalod, I agree and even the Nets coach Frank said the nets were going to have to improve within.. Lets face it, Layden really handcuffed this team with the salaries of Houston, and Anderson.... Those two deals were killer, and eisley and spoon deals are still hurting us because we just turned those deals into moochie and to some extent penny... We are just going to have to wait as you said... Maybe we will turn a trade for frankie and some expiring deals, but this knicks team will have to get better on its own.. Lets hope that sweetney and Dermarr have better years, that alone will help the knicks a long way, but we need to forget the dreams of Kobe, shaq and sheed.. this is not happenning....

nice post. and so true.

I'm sure that a healthy houston and sweet + franck alone can make us so much better than last yr. no need to overpay to get a big name. Those that are available are for a good reason. swe should stay away from them.

grow from within.
franco12
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6/23/2004  11:12 AM
While it was Layden who made these bad deals, its ultimately Jim Dolan that has given the OK to go out and do these deals- Dolan is the mindless wonder who thought Layden was a smart basketball guy.

While I don't miss Layden, do you think he wanted to trade sprewell or was it Dolan who told Layden to trade sprewell?

Everyone seems to agree it was Dolan.

And while Isiah has so far made better moves than Layden, as long as Dolan & Co own the Knicks, I worry a championship will yet elude us.
tkf
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6/23/2004  11:56 AM
Posted by franco12:

While it was Layden who made these bad deals, its ultimately Jim Dolan that has given the OK to go out and do these deals- Dolan is the mindless wonder who thought Layden was a smart basketball guy.

While I don't miss Layden, do you think he wanted to trade sprewell or was it Dolan who told Layden to trade sprewell?

Everyone seems to agree it was Dolan.

And while Isiah has so far made better moves than Layden, as long as Dolan & Co own the Knicks, I worry a championship will yet elude us.

I agree that Dolan is a idiot and I wish he just sells the knicks, but as a owner who is a self proclaimed basketball Idiot, he put his trust in Layden who was supposed to be a well respected basketball guy and he paid him a lot of money to make these decisions, he trusted layden, as far as the spree thing goes, I think it was the so called perceived lack of respect that spree had that upset dolan, I liked spree but lets face it spree is not exactly a company man, and I can respect dolan for not liking anyone who does not respec the pecking order in an organization..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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6/23/2004  12:51 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by franco12:

While it was Layden who made these bad deals, its ultimately Jim Dolan that has given the OK to go out and do these deals- Dolan is the mindless wonder who thought Layden was a smart basketball guy.

While I don't miss Layden, do you think he wanted to trade sprewell or was it Dolan who told Layden to trade sprewell?

Everyone seems to agree it was Dolan.

And while Isiah has so far made better moves than Layden, as long as Dolan & Co own the Knicks, I worry a championship will yet elude us.

I agree that Dolan is a idiot and I wish he just sells the knicks, but as a owner who is a self proclaimed basketball Idiot, he put his trust in Layden who was supposed to be a well respected basketball guy and he paid him a lot of money to make these decisions, he trusted layden, as far as the spree thing goes, I think it was the so called perceived lack of respect that spree had that upset dolan, I liked spree but lets face it spree is not exactly a company man, and I can respect dolan for not liking anyone who does not respec the pecking order in an organization..

This is so old hat, but my spin on Laydog was he was Dolans lapdog and had to honor the handshake deal checketts gave Allan when he signed him back in the day. Laydog also got a bad hand to deal with with trying to undue the Ewing-Rice debockle. That smelled of Dolan badly, as did dumping Spree.

All GM's make some bad deals. He over paid Fatspoon, but Eilsy and Shandon were his picks from Utah and had signed deals in other cities. We took them on, which they were over priced, but they also did not turn into the players projected.

ALso Laydog was an introvert which never is good for the high exposure job. He would be a great assistant GM. and from all accounts he is a great dude. Just badly miscast in the big role.

Laydog gets a fair share of the blame, but so does checketts, Ernie, and especially Dolan. Dolan shocked me when he fired Laydog, so he gets a point.

Isiah is no innocent prince here either. He has his share of mistakes over the years, and he bungled chaney's firing badly. But I believe he is fundamentally better than Laydog and has the owners confidence. He is charasmatic and brings attention to the team. He is the GM and I root for him to succeed, as I did Laydog. But lets not be totally nieve over him either.
tkf
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6/23/2004  1:15 PM
zeke by no means is a prince and that is for sure, but basketball knowledge he is heads and shoulders above anything we have had recently, Layden is a good guy and IMO was in over his head with this gig, he is probably a great scout(which is where he excelled) and should have been kept there doing that.... Layden was put in a bad spot with the Ewing debacle I admit, but obtaining Eisley with his ugly deal, and giving anderson that ugly deal and getting both at the same time is inexcuseable, and then turning around and giving fat spoon that money and overpaying for Houston when the only team bidding for Houston was the knicks are just too much to bear, GM's may make a bad move here and there but 4 Horrible, organazation crumbling moves in the span of 3 years is unforgiving... The spree thing I admit had Dolan written all over it and I am sure layden was in a bad position there..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
sebstar
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6/25/2004  6:50 PM
This is so old hat, but my spin on Laydog was he was Dolans lapdog and had to honor the handshake deal checketts gave Allan when he signed him back in the day. Laydog also got a bad hand to deal with with trying to undue the Ewing-Rice debockle. That smelled of Dolan badly, as did dumping Spree

I might be inclined to believe that Houston contract conspiracy theory if not for Layden’s sorry history. What handshake deal did Layden have to honor when it came to Eisely, Anderson, Mcdyess, Fat Spoon, Travis Knight, ext… I thought Layden traded Ewing for Rice? In any event, trading Rice for Eisely and Anderson turned a grease fire into a wild raging forest fire. Rice’s contract would be off the books.
All GM's make some bad deals. He over paid Fatspoon, but Eilsy and Shandon were his picks from Utah and had signed deals in other cities. We took them on, which they were over priced, but they also did not turn into the players projected.

Bad decisions?…Talk about understatement. Those aforementioned moves, combined with Allan Houston, and McDyess combine to form the Gigli of executive decisions and tenure. I really cant think of a GM in any sport who did a worse job. Really I cant.
ALso Laydog was an introvert which never is good for the high exposure job. He would be a great assistant GM. and from all accounts he is a great dude. Just badly miscast in the big role.

I would be careful with the assumption that Layden is a good guy. Its easy to misinterpret a introverted shy reserved personality, with genuine kindness. You say great guy, I say aloof daddy’s boy who has had everything handed to him in life and has a disconnect with reality.










My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Silverfuel
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6/25/2004  7:02 PM
Posted by sebstar:
This is so old hat, but my spin on Laydog was he was Dolans lapdog and had to honor the handshake deal checketts gave Allan when he signed him back in the day. Laydog also got a bad hand to deal with with trying to undue the Ewing-Rice debockle. That smelled of Dolan badly, as did dumping Spree

I might be inclined to believe that Houston contract conspiracy theory if not for Layden’s sorry history. What handshake deal did Layden have to honor when it came to Eisely, Anderson, Mcdyess, Fat Spoon, Travis Knight, ext… I thought Layden traded Ewing for Rice? In any event, trading Rice for Eisely and Anderson turned a grease fire into a wild raging forest fire. Rice’s contract would be off the books.
All GM's make some bad deals. He over paid Fatspoon, but Eilsy and Shandon were his picks from Utah and had signed deals in other cities. We took them on, which they were over priced, but they also did not turn into the players projected.

Bad decisions?…Talk about understatement. Those aforementioned moves, combined with Allan Houston, and McDyess combine to form the Gigli of executive decisions and tenure. I really cant think of a GM in any sport who did a worse job. Really I cant.
ALso Laydog was an introvert which never is good for the high exposure job. He would be a great assistant GM. and from all accounts he is a great dude. Just badly miscast in the big role.

I would be careful with the assumption that Layden is a good guy. Its easy to misinterpret a introverted shy reserved personality, with genuine kindness. You say great guy, I say aloof daddy’s boy who has had everything handed to him in life and has a disconnect with reality.








good post
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
tkf
Posts: 36487
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6/25/2004  7:06 PM
excellent post sebstar...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF

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