We sign Bargs back for two years 12mm(1 guaranteed)
We sign Anjica for 3 years 12mm
We give Admundson a FAIR contract 2 years 5mm

Our starting frontline rotation would be Bargnani(with less minutes and a mandate to play 14 feet and in) Okafor/Towns Anjica Admundson

I think a perfect blend of scoring rebounding shot blocking size skills and we would NOT have to pay 13mm to anyone--all of them combined are around 13mm . Straight out we'd have one of the best frontline sin the NBA.

Anyone who has paid attention to Anjica knows exactly what Im talking about--the guy is coming into his own the upticks are rising--this guy can be great and we know following basketball that a 7 footer takes time to grow into the game in many careers.

WITH all of that fireower and size in the frontocurt--THEN we can look at bringing in different guards BUt the caveat is we WILL have the seperation. So much attention needs to be placed on our frontcourt that guys like Larkin who we cna sign for nothing maybe a Rodney Stukey Demmarre Carroll a Mo Williams to go with Tim Hardaway and Shane Larkin. WE DO NOT NEED TO SPEND BIG MONEY ON ANYONE and thats the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I still want to be as aggressive as we can in the draft whether that buying a couple of 2's with our 1 or trading in. This offseason can be MONUMENTAL for a decade.

BRIGGS wrote:Lets say we get Towns or okafor(either 1)

We sign Bargs back for two years 12mm(1 guaranteed)
We sign Anjica for 3 years 12mm
We give Admundson a FAIR contract 2 years 5mm

Our starting frontline rotation would be Bargnani(with less minutes and a mandate to play 14 feet and in) Okafor/Towns Anjica Admundson

I think a perfect blend of scorers and we would NOT have to pay 13mm to anyone--all of them combined are around 13mm . Straight out we'd have one of the best frontline sin the NBA.

Anyone who has paid attention to Anjica knows exactly what Im talking about--the guy is coming into his own the upticks are rising--this guy can be great and we know following basketball that a 7 footer takes time to grow into the game in many careers.

WITH all of that fireower and size in the frontocurt--THEN we can look at bringing in different guards BUt the caveat is we WILL have the seperation. So much attention needs to be placed on our frontcourt that guys like Larkin who we cna sign for nothing maybe a Rodney Stukey Demmarre Carroll a Mo Williams to go with Tim Hardaway and Shane Larkin. WE DO NOT NEED TO SPEND BIG MONEY ON ANYONE and thats the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I still want to be as aggressive as we can in the draft whether that buying a couple of 2's with our 1 or trading in. This offseason can be MONUMENTAL for a decade.

I like what Amundson brings but he simply lacks talent, sometimes he looks great but his high level of play isn't sustainable, just like Jason Smith, they are role players that need to play off ALL STARS
They are rotational players at best

I wonder if a poison pill or a contract in the 12m range would be enough to steal Draymond Green from GS
I am pretty sure a max contract would be enough to steal him away unless they are able to move some contracts around like David Lee, Iggy, or Bogut, and possibly even Livingston and Speights for cheaper options
Truth is their strength is depth, HIGH IQ, ball movement, and chemistry

While Speights and Livingston would probably be easier to move and replace but if they are committed to winning NOW for they should just keep their core of expensive depth in those positions in order to compete
I guess time will tell, depending on how they all perform in the play offs when it really counts

Green is a leader and he is the type of player that will change the culture of an orginization that Phil Jackson is constantly talking about
He can be a triple double threat if the OFFENSE if the ball was run through him a bit more with the floor spacing/high IQ that he would teach to our players on DEFENSE and movement without the ball/movement after picks/and floor spacing

He can teach a lot of our guys on how to play and move as a team to make EVERYONE a threat and his effect on young guys in the locker room/gym would be priceless

Also can not trust AB and his injuries at that price either, I see Ajnica as a rotational player that could SPOT start if needed, but not preferable

Lavoy Allen
Serephin
Ed Davis
Freeland

For Guards look at what Bayless and DJ Augistine got at 3m per year on 2 year deals, their importance to their teams and ability to START if needed is great value and those are the type of multiple contracts we need

Then there are players in the range of 4-5m, I do not know what Phil Jackson's plan is, especially with this injury to CA
But I do not think we will be LEGIT contenders next season regardless

Mo Williams could play similar roles as Bayless with mainly 3pt shooting though he is older but I wouldn't give more than a 2year deal at about 3m per year
WIlliams improved his facilitating over the years but isn't near the defender at his age as both Bayless and even Augstine....
Another interesting older player would be Rasual Butler on a 2year cheap deal
Every season, there are steals at players in contracts in those numbers, many times even at the vet min, and we need to be available to find those multiple type of value players
James Johnson was a player I really wanted for many years who was signed for a 2year deal to return to Toronto for 2.5 a year, WHAT A STEAL!

Maybe but they have a VERY HIGH payroll, likely someone has to go, probably they would trade Livingston/Speights in search for cheaper options while hoping David Lee takes a home discount or just wait till the deadline to move him, possibly keeping him for the final year in hopes of competing for a title

I think Livingston gives them a different element that is also quite under rated with his size/lengh/ability to penetrate/handle the ball

Barbosa suddenly looks revived though for the vet min

And Speights has stepped up for them multiple times this season though he hasn't been playing much as of late
THey could have the HIGHEST payroll of ALL NBA teams if they keep their entire team entact, though David Lee would be an expiring

OKC made a great deal for DJ Augistine, he is a VERY GOOD backup PG that could come in and score and facilitate with great value at 3m for another year
Though Kanter look great for OKC, he might not be that good on other teams without Ibaka and Westbrook to cover for him and take attention away from him
SOmetimes change is needed and good for players, just as it was needed for JR Smith, Iman, and Tyson CHandler....

The nbas traditional get 2 "top" players and surround them with hard nosed quality role players is definitely a less risky and more prudent way to build a team IMO.

Whether the knicks FO is patient enough for this is always the question. They'll likely want to make a splash and throw something together ASAP to accommodate Melos prime window (or what's left of it).

Yet another thread that devolves from what I thought was a good basketball discussion to a Carmelo_Hate thread.

When discussing the 2015 & 2016 offseasons here are the things I consider:
- Draft pick (Single most important thing this year)
- Develop a core around whatever value we currently have in our role players, , & CA...
- Available free agents in summer of 2015
- Salary cap's radical increase that impacts 2016 Free Agency.
- # of very high caliber players in 2016 Free Agency

Out of all the above.. RonRon cannot see past CA being on the team and therefore we cannot have any discussions that have a hint of hope about the Knicks team. Sad state of the board when open basketball discussions are discouraged in favor of obsessing about Carmelo Anthony.

RonRon wrote:Would be looking for VALUE in players like, multiple contracts in the range of 2-3.5m on 2-3year deal with final years as team options

Lavoy Allen
Serephin
Ed Davis
Freeland

For Guards look at what Bayless and DJ Augistine got at 3m per year on 2 year deals, their importance to their teams and ability to START if needed is great value and those are the type of multiple contracts we need

Then there are players in the range of 4-5m, I do not know what Phil Jackson's plan is, especially with this injury to CA
But I do not think we will be LEGIT contenders next season regardless

Mo Williams could play similar roles as Bayless with mainly 3pt shooting though he is older but I wouldn't give more than a 2year deal at about 3m per year
WIlliams improved his facilitating over the years but isn't near the defender at his age as both Bayless and even Augstine....
Another interesting older player would be Rasual Butler on a 2year cheap deal
Every season, there are steals at players in contracts in those numbers, many times even at the vet min, and we need to be available to find those multiple type of value players
James Johnson was a player I really wanted for many years who was signed for a 2year deal to return to Toronto for 2.5 a year, WHAT A STEAL!

Maybe but they have a VERY HIGH payroll, likely someone has to go, probably they would trade Livingston/Speights in search for cheaper options while hoping David Lee takes a home discount or just wait till the deadline to move him, possibly keeping him for the final year in hopes of competing for a title

I think Livingston gives them a different element that is also quite under rated with his size/lengh/ability to penetrate/handle the ball

Barbosa suddenly looks revived though for the vet min

And Speights has stepped up for them multiple times this season though he hasn't been playing much as of late
THey could have the HIGHEST payroll of ALL NBA teams if they keep their entire team entact, though David Lee would be an expiring

OKC made a great deal for DJ Augistine, he is a VERY GOOD backup PG that could come in and score and facilitate with great value at 3m for another year
Though Kanter look great for OKC, he might not be that good on other teams without Ibaka and Westbrook to cover for him and take attention away from him
SOmetimes change is needed and good for players, just as it was needed for JR Smith, Iman, and Tyson CHandler....

Ron Ron who does Lavoy Allen(or any of the guys you mentioned) are basic 6-9 PF's. Freeland is junk. Alexis Anjica is a 7-1 C with 7-7 wingspan who scored 24 points on 9/10 shooting against Hassan Whiteside and the Miami heat pulled down 8 rebounds and blocked 3 shots in 20 minutes. Go look at his numbers with PT since A Davis went down NO is still winning--did you see him play against the Nets the other night? I rally dont have to guess with Anjica--hes on an uptick and can be an NBA IMPACT player but will NOT command high$ YET. Keeping bargs(if he accepts playing the right way) Anjica and admundosn is cost efficient and each player has a good role here to go along with our lottery pick.

I would be willing to take a chance on Ajinca. He's the kind of big you want in this system. He's skilled and can execute all the things you want in this system. On top of that he's enormous and he's an unrestricted free agent!!! One thing you have to remember with the Triangle is that it increases the effectiveness of bigs who have been underutilized in other systems. Every other team wants to play from the outside in. The Triangle maximizes the use of your pivot players.

I have Danny Green on my list of Free Agents. I don't know how much SA is willing to spend on him so he might be a guy we can steal away.

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:Would be looking for VALUE in players like, multiple contracts in the range of 2-3.5m on 2-3year deal with final years as team options

Lavoy Allen
Serephin
Ed Davis
Freeland

For Guards look at what Bayless and DJ Augistine got at 3m per year on 2 year deals, their importance to their teams and ability to START if needed is great value and those are the type of multiple contracts we need

Then there are players in the range of 4-5m, I do not know what Phil Jackson's plan is, especially with this injury to CA
But I do not think we will be LEGIT contenders next season regardless

Mo Williams could play similar roles as Bayless with mainly 3pt shooting though he is older but I wouldn't give more than a 2year deal at about 3m per year
WIlliams improved his facilitating over the years but isn't near the defender at his age as both Bayless and even Augstine....
Another interesting older player would be Rasual Butler on a 2year cheap deal
Every season, there are steals at players in contracts in those numbers, many times even at the vet min, and we need to be available to find those multiple type of value players
James Johnson was a player I really wanted for many years who was signed for a 2year deal to return to Toronto for 2.5 a year, WHAT A STEAL!

Maybe but they have a VERY HIGH payroll, likely someone has to go, probably they would trade Livingston/Speights in search for cheaper options while hoping David Lee takes a home discount or just wait till the deadline to move him, possibly keeping him for the final year in hopes of competing for a title

I think Livingston gives them a different element that is also quite under rated with his size/lengh/ability to penetrate/handle the ball

Barbosa suddenly looks revived though for the vet min

And Speights has stepped up for them multiple times this season though he hasn't been playing much as of late
THey could have the HIGHEST payroll of ALL NBA teams if they keep their entire team entact, though David Lee would be an expiring

OKC made a great deal for DJ Augistine, he is a VERY GOOD backup PG that could come in and score and facilitate with great value at 3m for another year
Though Kanter look great for OKC, he might not be that good on other teams without Ibaka and Westbrook to cover for him and take attention away from him
SOmetimes change is needed and good for players, just as it was needed for JR Smith, Iman, and Tyson CHandler....

Ron Ron who does Lavoy Allen(or any of the guys you mentioned) are basic 6-9 PF's. Freeland is junk. Alexis Anjica is a 7-1 C with 7-7 wingspan who scored 24 points on 9/10 shooting against Hassan Whiteside and the Miami heat pulled down 8 rebounds and blocked 3 shots in 20 minutes. Go look at his numbers with PT since A Davis went down NO is still winning--did you see him play against the Nets the other night? I rally dont have to guess with Anjica--hes on an uptick and can be an NBA IMPACT player but will NOT command high$ YET. Keeping bargs(if he accepts playing the right way) Anjica and admundosn is cost efficient and each player has a good role here to go along with our lottery pick.

Amundson look good when we are winning, when we lose he looks like what he is, a rotational player that hustles with that is undersized with good mobility
Telling him to do it on a 82 game season and I think he would illustrate my point of him being a not very good player
There are games he looks great and then there are games he looks like garbage, I appreciate his hustle and effort but he does lack skill to go with his lack of size
Now paying him more than the vet min and I would be glad to find another replacement....

At one point Jeremy Lin, Iman Shumpert, Laundry Fields, Jared Jarries, Tyson Chandler, with Steve Novak and Bill Walker
ALL looked liked very solid NBA players and solid OFFENSIVE PLAYERS AND GOOD DEFENISVE PLAYERS, get my point?

Lavoy Allen knows his role and has really improved his game, he could easily can average a double double if given the minutes with a combinted 3-4 blocks and steals, similar production with Serephin
You are sometimes obsessed with HEIGHT BRIGGS, at times suggesting CA to play SG which is far from his positiion despite his ability to shoot
Mobility/high IQ/athleticism could make up for height/size, especially on the DEFENSIVE end, a reson why Draymond Green both Zack Randolph *despite a 1 inch vertical jump* are very good PF's despite being undersized

In the end it comes down to pairing it with the right talent, chemistry, and system
Freeland filled in for Lopez and with LaMarCus Aldridge and held his own with double doubles and a pair of blocks

I am saying we need MULTIPLE cheap contracts and save enough money for TOP TIER STAR's to make this system run effectively as Phil Jackson has done with The Triangle with TOP TIER STARS throughout his career

I agree Alexis Anjica can be a good player with upside, with good wingspan, right now he lacks strength and I am not convinced he is worth what you are willing to pay him
Tyreke Evans's penetration opens things up for Anjica and then there is also both Asik and Dante Cunningham who both play very hard and do the banging at times
Unlike Whiteside, the OFFENSE is run through Whiteside, the Offense is not run through Anjica

I am not saying one day Anjica can not be that person, just like at one point Kawaii Leanard played through the abilities of Parker, Manu, Duncan, and even Splitter
However, Kawaii has developed nicely over the years and has been given more responsibilties over the years
Like Danny Green who also can put up GREAT numbers at times and for many games doesn't do much, but his ability to spread the floor is very much needed along with the DEFENSE that he plays that he averages nearly 1 block and 1 steal and can put up 20-30pts + any night he catches fire but on most nights, he doesn't do much

It isn't always about numbers, it is about collecting enough talent to play a certain way to open things up for EVERYONE to produce
Numbers can be manipulated and I hate that it is used to justify talent at times, especially for small sample sizes as some would say
There are many things numbers do not show but are just as important to a WINNING basketball team, a reason why I love Draymond Green, I believe he brings the intangibles, touchness, leadership, that numbers do not show...
You on the other hand, tend to use numbers to justify talent, which I do not always agree on.....
It is the same reason why you thought Reggie Jackson was worthy of a MAX contract at one point!
It is flawed thinking, numbers are the product of the game, in which Dantoni learned he could manipulate although some of his philosophies actually can work....
I am not saying it is always wrong either but there are many circumstances to consider other than numbers

Again, my point is to look for more value players to limit production, I am not sure what he is worth at this point to tell you the truth
But with the money we already have invested in CA and Calderon, given their weakness's and inabilities, in addition to our lack of draft picks, we simply have to add a lot more quality TOP TIER talents that would make EVERYONE ELSE better and many value players with them

I actually do not think we can build a LEGIT contender with CA as our #1 as Billups recently pointed out his lack of leadership as a ex team mate of his
He also is not a good defender, doesn't make plays for others to make them better, though we also lack talent
But JR Smith and Iman Shumpert have elevated their games as many has said that they suck, with Tyson CHandler, well they do not suck, we lack talent and we do not have a play maker of Lebron's caliber, defensive ability, or/and leadership, along with a Irving and Kevin Love, or even a MoSGoV....

In order for CA to win, he is going to have to be the Robin to a Batman, with a very strong defensive team and very talented team
I do not see how we can build that until 2017 when the cap rise dramatically and we still must collect multiple cheap talents with TOP TEIR TALENTS that FIT together and make each other better and are good great defensive players till then

Question is, will CA still be CA in 2017, especially after this injury?
I don't know but I would rather NOT try to find out and just trade him and his salary this off season with this draft to a contender out West if there is a market for him
Especially if we can get something I proposed in Houston that could be beneficial for both teams and even more for CA, his family, and his chances of ever winning a ring.....

As of now, I do not know what Phil Jackson is thinking, if he see's CA in his future plans or not...
I do know that Phil Jackson is a master of the art of manipulation and if he doesn't see CA in his future plans, he will know how to push the buttons with the media to get it done despite having a no trade clause
Same for CA, if he wanted out of his contract, so in the end, the NO TRADE clause is really BS either way, unless CA doesn't mind being the next Eddy Curry, then we are really screwed, which I doubt, I do think he wants to win, its just he values money/security/his brand a bit more, but if he is traded to a contender with NO STATE tax in addition to the trade kicker, without looking like a bad guy and looking like a victim like he always portrays himself to be, he will do it....

Unless Lebron is coming to NYK or a player like Kawaii Leanard of that caliber comes to New York, I just cannot see us building a team that resembles The Bulls
And There is NO SHAQ to resemble especially with the zone, we are unlikely to have the quality of depth of a Pau/Kobe/Byum/Odom/Ariza type team either....

Another unrealistic way is to ask a few players to take a pay cut to sign in NYK, which is unlikely, but would have been possible if CA didn't opt out of his contract and recruited this summer while a collection of talent took less, similar to The Heat *though they have no STATE TAX which made it easier*

Though Winning in NYK has it's advantages in endorsements, especially if we can build a dynasty type roster, but I do not see that happening unless we trade CA and acquire many draft picks, and preserve cap space for much talent in 2017 while collecting many cap friendly good players in the mean time that will get better locked in to 3year deals

Yep for the most part I like very big players. The bigger the better
as long as they are skill players. I do think you need to sprinkle in speed and athleticism--no doubt about that--balance. We have up to 35mm to spend--I guarantee that if it was me--Anjica would be a Knick next year AND if Bargs can PROOVE to me to stay healthy and play the game the right way within 14 feet as a5 man--both he and Admundson will also be here. I have ZERO interest spending 15mm on any player. We have too many holes. UNLIKE older Knick teams we need to get the best bang for the buck have guys play over their contracts.

Would you consider overpaying for Midleton to slot him in at the SG? Prob worth 8MM, maybe put him at 10mm to steal him away? I would guess even a max offer would get matched by Chicago for Butler, my #1 choice.

In this scenario, we attempt to pull off your Lee & draft pick for 1 year with GS? Failing that, would you forgo your attempt at KD if Lamarcus Aldridge was willing to come to NY? I would take this starting 5 for 4 years.

Russell
Midleton
Melo
LMA
Ajinca

God forbid we could land Butler and LMA, I would move salary around commit to that team for a long long time. Russell/Butler/Melo/LMA/[Insert Random Center at Vets Min].

EwingsGlass wrote:Assume for a moment we sign on to Ajinca as you say at $4.5 per. He is worth the risk, whether he pans out or not.
Assume we get the #3 pick and end up with Russell at PG for $2.7mm.

Would you consider overpaying for Midleton to slot him in at the SG? Prob worth 8MM, maybe put him at 10mm to steal him away? I would guess even a max offer would get matched by Chicago for Butler, my #1 choice.

In this scenario, we attempt to pull off your Lee & draft pick for 1 year with GS? Failing that, would you forgo your attempt at KD if Lamarcus Aldridge was willing to come to NY? I would take this starting 5 for 4 years.

Russell
Midleton
Melo
LMA
Ajinca

God forbid we could land Butler and LMA, I would move salary around commit to that team for a long long time. Russell/Butler/Melo/LMA/[Insert Random Center at Vets Min].

I like that minus LMAand A kinda is an off the bench player not starter, imo. Middleton might blow up, he is getting high praise at the MIT Sloan conference. I would sill take a risk on him even if it goes over $10m. He can play 3 positions and shoots the ball we'll. He has moved ahead of Matthews and Green for me but the other two are UFAs which makes them more likely gets. Larry Sanders cheap buyout and the trade of Knight really took away teams leverage of overpaying to get Khris. I think a contract with similar language as Parsons had is needed.