I wasn't enamored with Love to begin with and I was a bit against the trade anyway. He just doesn't seem to fit in over there.
I think for the cost of Love, they could have done better finding a player or players, who fits that system better. Time will tell I know.

Lebron already has his ring and I think it will be a bit funny seeing Wiggins become a star and Lebron not win any more with Love in Cleveland.
Perhaps they sign Love long term then trade him to a team for an asset that better fits that team. As of now, I just don't see Cleveland (defensively)
being dominant enough to win it all. (Unless Lebron wills them.)

Good news for us.

earthmansurfer wrote:Seeing Wiggins play so well so early in his career and seeing Love not really fit in in Cleveland.
Just think next year and the year after where Wiggins can be. It is scary.

I wasn't enamored with Love to begin with and I was a bit against the trade anyway. He just doesn't seem to fit in over there.
I think for the cost of Love, they could have done better finding a player or players, who fits that system better. Time will tell I know.

Lebron already has his ring and I think it will be a bit funny seeing Wiggins become a star and Lebron not win any more with Love in Cleveland.
Perhaps they sign Love long term then trade him to a team for an asset that better fits that team. As of now, I just don't see Cleveland (defensively)
being dominant enough to win it all. (Unless Lebron wills them.)

Good news for us.

Usually with trades like this, the team getting the vet at least has a year of grace where it looks like they got the best of the deal- the Cavs haven't even had that! And it's only going to get worse...

smackeddog wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Seeing Wiggins play so well so early in his career and seeing Love not really fit in in Cleveland.
Just think next year and the year after where Wiggins can be. It is scary.

I wasn't enamored with Love to begin with and I was a bit against the trade anyway. He just doesn't seem to fit in over there.
I think for the cost of Love, they could have done better finding a player or players, who fits that system better. Time will tell I know.

Lebron already has his ring and I think it will be a bit funny seeing Wiggins become a star and Lebron not win any more with Love in Cleveland.
Perhaps they sign Love long term then trade him to a team for an asset that better fits that team. As of now, I just don't see Cleveland (defensively)
being dominant enough to win it all. (Unless Lebron wills them.)

Good news for us.

Usually with trades like this, the team getting the vet at least has a year of grace where it looks like they got the best of the deal- the Cavs haven't even had that! And it's only going to get worse...

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Seeing Wiggins play so well so early in his career and seeing Love not really fit in in Cleveland.
Just think next year and the year after where Wiggins can be. It is scary.

I wasn't enamored with Love to begin with and I was a bit against the trade anyway. He just doesn't seem to fit in over there.
I think for the cost of Love, they could have done better finding a player or players, who fits that system better. Time will tell I know.

Lebron already has his ring and I think it will be a bit funny seeing Wiggins become a star and Lebron not win any more with Love in Cleveland.
Perhaps they sign Love long term then trade him to a team for an asset that better fits that team. As of now, I just don't see Cleveland (defensively)
being dominant enough to win it all. (Unless Lebron wills them.)

Good news for us.

Usually with trades like this, the team getting the vet at least has a year of grace where it looks like they got the best of the deal- the Cavs haven't even had that! And it's only going to get worse...

They haven't even had that? Are you saying Wiggins is playing at a higher level than Love right now?

Hell yes!

I just don't think Love has looked good this season, blame it on the system or whatever, but are you honestly saying given the choice between the two, you'd pick Kevin Love? (genuine question)

Vmart wrote:Kevin Love = a glorified David Lee. In Minn he had the green light to do whatever he wanted hence numbers.

hence efficient numbers.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:Kevin Love = a glorified David Lee. In Minn he had the green light to do whatever he wanted hence numbers.

hence efficient numbers.

People are being inconsistent with their arguments here. Usually, when a guy has no supporting cast, they'll say he has no one to pass to, has to put up bad shots, and thus is shooting inefficiently.

Exactly

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:Kevin Love = a glorified David Lee. In Minn he had the green light to do whatever he wanted hence numbers.

hence efficient numbers.

People are being inconsistent with their arguments here. Usually, when a guy has no supporting cast, they'll say he has no one to pass to, has to put up bad shots, and thus is shooting inefficiently.

Exactly

That line of thinking should sound very familiar here actually. Reading this thread, I'm amazed that people have forgotten that they used to make that argument.

It goes both ways, and the same could be said of you flip flopping too Also, don't you value defense?

I was actually looking forward to seeing what Kevin Love could do this season, but he seems pretty much irrelevant to that team- his numbers are big, they lose, his numbers are small, they win. Lebron was out of the lineup and the started clocking up the loses. I'l wager if Love missed several games with that eye injury, their record will be unaffected.

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:Kevin Love = a glorified David Lee. In Minn he had the green light to do whatever he wanted hence numbers.

hence efficient numbers.

People are being inconsistent with their arguments here. Usually, when a guy has no supporting cast, they'll say he has no one to pass to, has to put up bad shots, and thus is shooting inefficiently.

Exactly

That line of thinking should sound very familiar here actually. Reading this thread, I'm amazed that people have forgotten that they used to make that argument.

It goes both ways, and the same could be said of you flip flopping too Also, don't you value defense?

I was actually looking forward to seeing what Kevin Love could do this season, but he seems pretty much irrelevant to that team- his numbers are big, they lose, his numbers are small, they win. Lebron was out of the lineup and the started clocking up the loses. I'l wager if Love missed several games with that eye injury, their record will be unaffected.

The same has been said of me and I've directly addressed those claims whenever they're made. The burden is on the person to directly address the claim when it appears that there is an inconsistency. (The burden isn't just to say that other people have been charged with inconsistency too.) So, just to be clear, would you claim that having a poor supporting cast has decreased Melo's scoring efficiency but having a poor supporting cast in Minnesota increased Love's? I've seen many people here in separate discussions make these two arguments. Or is the difference in their career efficiency #s an accurate portrayal of their offensive abilities?
Of course I value defense and all the metrics I've looked at indicate that Love struggles on defense but still produces significantly more than he gives up, whereas Wiggins is still giving up more than he produces. That's not a knock on Wiggins. Almost all rookies are below average compared to veterans.
It would be nice if you could post some evidence for your claims about Love's impact on Minn. They're roughly a .700 team right now when the big 3 are healthy and losing any of the 3 would hurt them significantly IMO.

I come hear to exchange opinions about basketball, not to prepare a legal case or engage in a socratic dialogue. This is my gripe about metrics, they're turning something fun (talking s*** about basketball) into something more akin to meeting with your accountant.

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:Kevin Love = a glorified David Lee. In Minn he had the green light to do whatever he wanted hence numbers.

hence efficient numbers.

People are being inconsistent with their arguments here. Usually, when a guy has no supporting cast, they'll say he has no one to pass to, has to put up bad shots, and thus is shooting inefficiently.

Exactly

That line of thinking should sound very familiar here actually. Reading this thread, I'm amazed that people have forgotten that they used to make that argument.

It goes both ways, and the same could be said of you flip flopping too Also, don't you value defense?

I was actually looking forward to seeing what Kevin Love could do this season, but he seems pretty much irrelevant to that team- his numbers are big, they lose, his numbers are small, they win. Lebron was out of the lineup and the started clocking up the loses. I'l wager if Love missed several games with that eye injury, their record will be unaffected.

The same has been said of me and I've directly addressed those claims whenever they're made. The burden is on the person to directly address the claim when it appears that there is an inconsistency. (The burden isn't just to say that other people have been charged with inconsistency too.) So, just to be clear, would you claim that having a poor supporting cast has decreased Melo's scoring efficiency but having a poor supporting cast in Minnesota increased Love's? I've seen many people here in separate discussions make these two arguments. Or is the difference in their career efficiency #s an accurate portrayal of their offensive abilities?
Of course I value defense and all the metrics I've looked at indicate that Love struggles on defense but still produces significantly more than he gives up, whereas Wiggins is still giving up more than he produces. That's not a knock on Wiggins. Almost all rookies are below average compared to veterans.
It would be nice if you could post some evidence for your claims about Love's impact on Minn. They're roughly a .700 team right now when the big 3 are healthy and losing any of the 3 would hurt them significantly IMO.

I come hear to exchange opinions about basketball, not to prepare a legal case or engage in a socratic dialogue. This is my gripe about metrics, they're turning something fun (talking s*** about basketball) into something more akin to meeting with your accountant.

Adjust or leave the convo, impossible to talk basketball without it now, it's part of it.

smackeddog wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:Kevin Love = a glorified David Lee. In Minn he had the green light to do whatever he wanted hence numbers.

hence efficient numbers.

People are being inconsistent with their arguments here. Usually, when a guy has no supporting cast, they'll say he has no one to pass to, has to put up bad shots, and thus is shooting inefficiently.

Exactly

That line of thinking should sound very familiar here actually. Reading this thread, I'm amazed that people have forgotten that they used to make that argument.

It goes both ways, and the same could be said of you flip flopping too Also, don't you value defense?

I was actually looking forward to seeing what Kevin Love could do this season, but he seems pretty much irrelevant to that team- his numbers are big, they lose, his numbers are small, they win. Lebron was out of the lineup and the started clocking up the loses. I'l wager if Love missed several games with that eye injury, their record will be unaffected.

The same has been said of me and I've directly addressed those claims whenever they're made. The burden is on the person to directly address the claim when it appears that there is an inconsistency. (The burden isn't just to say that other people have been charged with inconsistency too.) So, just to be clear, would you claim that having a poor supporting cast has decreased Melo's scoring efficiency but having a poor supporting cast in Minnesota increased Love's? I've seen many people here in separate discussions make these two arguments. Or is the difference in their career efficiency #s an accurate portrayal of their offensive abilities?
Of course I value defense and all the metrics I've looked at indicate that Love struggles on defense but still produces significantly more than he gives up, whereas Wiggins is still giving up more than he produces. That's not a knock on Wiggins. Almost all rookies are below average compared to veterans.
It would be nice if you could post some evidence for your claims about Love's impact on Minn. They're roughly a .700 team right now when the big 3 are healthy and losing any of the 3 would hurt them significantly IMO.

I come hear to exchange opinions about basketball, not to prepare a legal case or engage in a socratic dialogue. This is my gripe about metrics, they're turning something fun (talking s*** about basketball) into something more akin to meeting with your accountant.

Reminds me of my dad when he declined purchasing a new car he liked because it didnt come with a key. Just like "push to start", metrics and analytics are part of the NBA game now.

Adjust or leave the convo, impossible to talk basketball without it now, it's part of it.

Not really, people who want to talk metrics can talk metrics, those that don't, won't

And your dad was 100% right! Ha!

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:Kevin Love = a glorified David Lee. In Minn he had the green light to do whatever he wanted hence numbers.

hence efficient numbers.

People are being inconsistent with their arguments here. Usually, when a guy has no supporting cast, they'll say he has no one to pass to, has to put up bad shots, and thus is shooting inefficiently.

Exactly

That line of thinking should sound very familiar here actually. Reading this thread, I'm amazed that people have forgotten that they used to make that argument.

It goes both ways, and the same could be said of you flip flopping too Also, don't you value defense?

I was actually looking forward to seeing what Kevin Love could do this season, but he seems pretty much irrelevant to that team- his numbers are big, they lose, his numbers are small, they win. Lebron was out of the lineup and the started clocking up the loses. I'l wager if Love missed several games with that eye injury, their record will be unaffected.

The same has been said of me and I've directly addressed those claims whenever they're made. The burden is on the person to directly address the claim when it appears that there is an inconsistency. (The burden isn't just to say that other people have been charged with inconsistency too.) So, just to be clear, would you claim that having a poor supporting cast has decreased Melo's scoring efficiency but having a poor supporting cast in Minnesota increased Love's? I've seen many people here in separate discussions make these two arguments. Or is the difference in their career efficiency #s an accurate portrayal of their offensive abilities?
Of course I value defense and all the metrics I've looked at indicate that Love struggles on defense but still produces significantly more than he gives up, whereas Wiggins is still giving up more than he produces. That's not a knock on Wiggins. Almost all rookies are below average compared to veterans.
It would be nice if you could post some evidence for your claims about Love's impact on Minn. They're roughly a .700 team right now when the big 3 are healthy and losing any of the 3 would hurt them significantly IMO.

I come hear to exchange opinions about basketball, not to prepare a legal case or engage in a socratic dialogue. This is my gripe about metrics, they're turning something fun (talking s*** about basketball) into something more akin to meeting with your accountant.

Reminds me of my dad when he declined purchasing a new car he liked because it didnt come with a key. Just like "push to start", metrics and analytics are part of the NBA game now.

Adjust or leave the convo, impossible to talk basketball without it now, it's part of it.

lol that's a great analogy