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Tanking doesn't guarentee anything.....
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blkexec
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2/10/2015  11:53 AM
Teams that won the lottery (since 1990) It's very common for the worst team to drop out of the top 3. As long as we are 1 of the bottom 5 worst teams, we have as much of a chance of getting a high pick, as anybody. The only thing tanking does for you, it creates stress and anxiety, once you realize you didn't get the top pick. All that losing for what? We have to show some progress of a cultural change during this losing streak, or we will be in the same boat come next year. Fisher is the main guy under the radar. Phil has to be careful with Fisher and make sure he's the right guy for this rebuild.

Worst 3
2nd-worst 4
3rd-worst 5
4th-worst 0
5th-worst 5
6th-worst 2
7th-worst 1
8th-worst 1
9th-worst 1
10th-worst 0
11th-worst 1
12th-worst 0
13th-worst 0
14th-worst 0

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/21/4348616/nba-draft-lottery-history-derrick-rose-lebron-james

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
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smackeddog
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2/10/2015  1:15 PM
Actually it guarantees you a top 4 pick
nixluva
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2/10/2015  2:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/10/2015  2:10 PM
The mistake some are making is using the entire draft history when in fact they've made changes to the way the draft works. Right now having the worst record does in fact guarantee at top 4 pick. You can't fall more than 3 spots. IMO anything in the top 5 would be a good thing in this draft. I think there are that many worthy players in this draft.

1. Okafor
2. Russell
3. Towns
4. Mudiay
5. Turner?

I think this draft is a very good draft. I wish we had another pick. In fact i'd take on another teams bad contract for another 1st rd. pick.
Bonn1997
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2/10/2015  2:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/10/2015  2:18 PM
nixluva wrote:The mistake some are making is using the entire draft history when in fact they've made changes to the way the draft works. Right now having the worst record does in fact guarantee at top 4 pick. You can't fall more than 3 spots. IMO anything in the top 5 would be a good thing in this draft. I think there are that many worthy players in this draft.

1. Okafor
2. Russell
3. Towns
4. Mudiay
5. Turner?

I think this draft is a very good draft. I wish we had another pick. In fact i'd take on another teams bad contract for another 1st rd. pick.

If we use the Jeremy Lin trade as an example, then the price of a late first round pick now is around $10 to $15 mil of cap space. I think teams have caught on to the importance of cost-effectiveness and it's very hard to buy first round picks.
Knixkik
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2/10/2015  2:21 PM
smackeddog wrote:Actually it guarantees you a top 4 pick

And what does a top 4 pick guarantee you? The right to draft a top prospect yes. But nothing more than that. No guarantee that player is any good at basketball.
Sangfroid
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2/10/2015  2:22 PM
nixluva wrote:The mistake some are making is using the entire draft history when in fact they've made changes to the way the draft works. Right now having the worst record does in fact guarantee at top 4 pick. You can't fall more than 3 spots. IMO anything in the top 5 would be a good thing in this draft. I think there are that many worthy players in this draft.

1. Okafor
2. Russell
3. Towns
4. Mudiay
5. Turner?

I think this draft is a very good draft. I wish we had another pick. In fact i'd take on another teams bad contract for another 1st rd. pick.

Phew! Thanks for pulling me in off the ledge. I think one of the top four, plus a functioning free agent or two could go a long way towards righting the ship. A D-league find would be like a cherry on top!

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
BigDaddyG
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2/10/2015  2:35 PM
nixluva wrote:The mistake some are making is using the entire draft history when in fact they've made changes to the way the draft works. Right now having the worst record does in fact guarantee at top 4 pick. You can't fall more than 3 spots. IMO anything in the top 5 would be a good thing in this draft. I think there are that many worthy players in this draft.

1. Okafor
2. Russell
3. Towns
4. Mudiay
5. Turner?

I think this draft is a very good draft. I wish we had another pick. In fact i'd take on another teams bad contract for another 1st rd. pick.


This reminds me of the 2011 draft with Kyrie Irving. No superstars but a lot of superstars all the way down Isaiah Thomas at pick 60. I wouldn't mind trading down if the right package came along, similar to Eddie Griffin trade the Nets made years ago.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
BigDaddyG
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2/10/2015  2:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/10/2015  3:34 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The mistake some are making is using the entire draft history when in fact they've made changes to the way the draft works. Right now having the worst record does in fact guarantee at top 4 pick. You can't fall more than 3 spots. IMO anything in the top 5 would be a good thing in this draft. I think there are that many worthy players in this draft.

1. Okafor
2. Russell
3. Towns
4. Mudiay
5. Turner?

I think this draft is a very good draft. I wish we had another pick. In fact i'd take on another teams bad contract for another 1st rd. pick.

If we use the Jeremy Lin trade as an example, then the price of a late first round pick now is around $10 to $15 mil of cap space. I think teams have caught on to the importance of cost-effectiveness and it's very hard to buy first round picks.


Houston's situation was a little different in that deal since they were bargaining from a position of weakness and the Lakers were one of the few teams available that had nothing to lose by taking Lin on. But yeah, it's not like the old days when a $1M could buy you a pick.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
nixluva
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2/10/2015  2:40 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The mistake some are making is using the entire draft history when in fact they've made changes to the way the draft works. Right now having the worst record does in fact guarantee at top 4 pick. You can't fall more than 3 spots. IMO anything in the top 5 would be a good thing in this draft. I think there are that many worthy players in this draft.

1. Okafor
2. Russell
3. Towns
4. Mudiay
5. Turner?

I think this draft is a very good draft. I wish we had another pick. In fact i'd take on another teams bad contract for another 1st rd. pick.

If we use the Jeremy Lin trade as an example, then the price of a late first round pick now is around $10 to $15 mil of cap space. I think teams have caught on to the importance of cost-effectiveness and it's very hard to buy first round picks.


Perhaps you're right. I'd still hope Phil would try. Sometimes there's one team that just wants to cut cap space so they can add someone else. I'd explore it with teams over the cap and see what I could get.

Cleveland is going to be over the cap and facing some new contract negotiations with their core players. They've gotta redo Kyrie which will double his current salary.
Denver is in cap trouble too. We might be able to get their 2nd rd pick #37 right now. Perhaps we could trade Jose for someone they don't want and use a trade exception to grab a pick. I'm no cap expert but there are a few teams that will be looking to clear some cap that we might help.
Knicksfan
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2/10/2015  2:56 PM
Knixkik wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Actually it guarantees you a top 4 pick

And what does a top 4 pick guarantee you? The right to draft a top prospect yes. But nothing more than that. No guarantee that player is any good at basketball.

No guarantees anywhere, but we do know the odds of getting a player that can become the face of your franchise and a possible star is more likely in those spots. There have been many busts, too, but if you do your homework on the prospects, you can set your franchise closer to where you want it.

If you are having a bad season, then make sure you have the worst record to possibly have the chance to select the best player available.

Knicks_Fan
Finestrg
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2/10/2015  3:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/10/2015  3:07 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The mistake some are making is using the entire draft history when in fact they've made changes to the way the draft works. Right now having the worst record does in fact guarantee at top 4 pick. You can't fall more than 3 spots. IMO anything in the top 5 would be a good thing in this draft. I think there are that many worthy players in this draft.

1. Okafor
2. Russell
3. Towns
4. Mudiay
5. Turner?

I think this draft is a very good draft. I wish we had another pick. In fact i'd take on another teams bad contract for another 1st rd. pick.

If we use the Jeremy Lin trade as an example, then the price of a late first round pick now is around $10 to $15 mil of cap space. I think teams have caught on to the importance of cost-effectiveness and it's very hard to buy first round picks.

Agreed. And watch -- 2nd round picks will be at a premium now as well. Over the past few years, that's been the case. I guess we could take on a bad contract to pick up a 1st rounder but is that really advisable? In terms of assets--we have nothing except what, maybe Cleanthony Early to flip for a 2nd rounder? Why do that? Let's develop Early ourselves. We saw in the NCAA and in Westchester recently that the guy has plus talent. We just need to get him going at the NBA level now...We could turn over a future pick or two to a good team to maybe get a low 1st rounder but again, is that advisable? We just keep getting burned on coughing up future picks. I can only deal in certainty -- we have a 1st round pick that should be top 4. Then we have about $30mm in cap space, hopefully a little more depending on how high they raise the cap ceiling. That's what we'll have available to upgrade this team. If Phil can work out a way to get another pick or two that won't be too detrimental to us in the long run (THJ + cash, Galloway + cash etc.), great, but I'm not counting on it.
nixluva
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2/10/2015  3:11 PM
Finestrg wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The mistake some are making is using the entire draft history when in fact they've made changes to the way the draft works. Right now having the worst record does in fact guarantee at top 4 pick. You can't fall more than 3 spots. IMO anything in the top 5 would be a good thing in this draft. I think there are that many worthy players in this draft.

1. Okafor
2. Russell
3. Towns
4. Mudiay
5. Turner?

I think this draft is a very good draft. I wish we had another pick. In fact i'd take on another teams bad contract for another 1st rd. pick.

If we use the Jeremy Lin trade as an example, then the price of a late first round pick now is around $10 to $15 mil of cap space. I think teams have caught on to the importance of cost-effectiveness and it's very hard to buy first round picks.

Agreed. And watch -- 2nd round picks will be at a premium now as well. Over the past few years, that's been the case. I guess we could take on a bad contract to pick up a 1st rounder but is that really advisable? In terms of assets--we have nothing except what, maybe Cleanthony Early to flip for a 2nd rounder? Why do that? Let's develop Early ourselves. We saw in the NCAA and in Westchester recently that the guy has plus talent. We just need to get him going at the NBA level now...We could turn over a future pick or two to a good team to maybe get a low 1st rounder but again, is that advisable? We just keep getting burned on coughing up future picks. I can only deal in certainty -- we have a 1st round pick that should be top 4. Then we have about $30mm in cap space, hopefully a little more depending on how high they raise the cap ceiling. That's what we'll have available to upgrade this team. If Phil can work out a way to get another pick or two that won't be too detrimental to us in the long run (THJ, cash, THJ + cash etc.), great, but I'm not counting on it.


We need depth anyway!!! It's not so much about taking on a BAD contract as it is looking to give teams cap relief and take back player that may not figure into their plans but that is productive. Doing that in exchange for a pick could be worth it.

Look at Cleveland, Denver, Golden State, Brooklyn, Miami, Wash, OKC who all have some serious cap issues. We have cap space which could be used to bring in a useful player and also a pick. We also have trade Exceptions which teams may feel could help them in their plans to improve their teams. If Phil isn't going to be looking for 1st tier FA's then using the cap space in order to also grab talent and a pick isn't a bad move.
JamesLin
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2/10/2015  5:08 PM
nixluva wrote:The mistake some are making is using the entire draft history when in fact they've made changes to the way the draft works. Right now having the worst record does in fact guarantee at top 4 pick. You can't fall more than 3 spots. IMO anything in the top 5 would be a good thing in this draft. I think there are that many worthy players in this draft.

1. Okafor
2. Russell
3. Towns
4. Mudiay
5. Turner?

I think this draft is a very good draft. I wish we had another pick. In fact i'd take on another teams bad contract for another 1st rd. pick.

I wish we had another high pick in the first round. I think this draft can be a very good one as well, although none of the upcoming draft choice seems to be the next star player yet.

Get busy living or get busy dying. ---- Andy Dufresne
StarksEwing1
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2/10/2015  5:20 PM
I understand certain fans refuse to root for losses even in a terrible season. However even though i agree the draft is a crapshoot its still smarter to get the best possible pick instead of a few extra meaningless wins and ending up with a mediocre pick
blkexec
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2/10/2015  5:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/11/2015  1:06 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:I understand certain fans refuse to root for losses even in a terrible season. However even though i agree the draft is a crapshoot its still smarter to get the best possible pick instead of a few extra meaningless wins and ending up with a mediocre pick

This is the fundamental problem that silver needs to fix....otherwise all the bad teams should pull a pop move and sit their entire team. Send all the starters to the D league. Lol

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
KEEPCAMBYNY
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2/11/2015  4:31 AM
nixluva wrote:The mistake some are making is using the entire draft history when in fact they've made changes to the way the draft works. Right now having the worst record does in fact guarantee at top 4 pick. You can't fall more than 3 spots. IMO anything in the top 5 would be a good thing in this draft. I think there are that many worthy players in this draft.

1. Okafor
2. Russell
3. Towns
4. Mudiay
5. Turner?

I think this draft is a very good draft. I wish we had another pick. In fact i'd take on another teams bad contract for another 1st rd. pick.

If we end up with the 5th pick, we better draft Stanley Johnson, he is NY kind of player,easily the best wing defender this team has had since Sprewell.

I bleed orange and blue for life.
EnySpree
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2/11/2015  6:25 AM
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GustavBahler
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2/11/2015  8:04 AM
When it became clear that this team was going nowhere, it made sense to tank. But this season is also about who is good enough to keep around. Thats why I like to read about players like Galloway playing a part in a win. One less player to find next season, and likely at a discount, if he pans out.

I doubt this team will do anything of consequence to put us out of the running for the number one pick, so a win now and then isnt the end of the world IMO.
StarksEwing1
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2/11/2015  8:16 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/11/2015  8:16 AM
Its not like people rooting for tanking like to lose but the Knicks kind of made that choice for us. Maybe if they played a little better earlier in the season we could have been rooting for the last 2 spots in the playoffs but that didnt appen. Now it makes much more sense to try and get a top 4 pick instead of a few extra wins that dont mean anything
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Tanking doesn't guarentee anything.....
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