2. I agree with you about the SG/SF who is a threat to get to the basket or otherwise create in this offense. I talked about this but was shot down. The failure of JR, Shump or THJ to really take that position by the horns was a huge part of the failure. People were fixated on Jose, but he's not supposed to be a focal point of the offense. He was supposed to be in the Paxson, Hodges, Kerr, Fisher role.

When the Bulls ran this offense in the ’90s, the key adaptation Jackson made was moving Scottie Pippen to the top of the key and playing Jordan as a forward (in Los Angeles, he made a similar tweak with Lamar Odom and Bryant). But those players would have succeeded in any offense. The real advantage of the Triangle is what it does for players with less ability. Most NBA sets are static; they require perimeter players to create their own shot, usually off the dribble. The Triangle’s relentless off-the-ball movement allows standing jump shooters to contribute within their own preexisting skill set. This is why it worked so well for John Paxson and Steve Kerr, and even for guys like Sasha Vujacic and Luke Walton. You don’t need four or five athletic scorers to make the Triangle work. Two is plenty, because it amplifies the value of role players.

As you make note of our team lacks enough talent at the SG/SF spot while it would be great to have a top PG it's even more important to have a creative SG/SF who can wreak havoc on defenses off the dribble or passing.

3. A gifted Post Big who can not only score a little, rebound and defend, but also pass on a high level, is also a key missing component. It can all come together when you have bigs who can operate in the post and also move the ball. We've talked about the need for highly skilled players throughout the lineup and in this offense it's really important.

nixluva wrote:1. Rambis, Cleamons and Shaw didn't run the Triangle in it's entirety. At best just parts of it. There was resistance from the players and upper management. More importantly they didn't have good teams.

2. I agree with you about the SG/SF who is a threat to get to the basket or otherwise create in this offense. I talked about this but was shot down. The failure of JR, Shump or THJ to really take that position by the horns was a huge part of the failure. People were fixated on Jose, but he's not supposed to be a focal point of the offense. He was supposed to be in the Paxson, Hodges, Kerr, Fisher role.

When the Bulls ran this offense in the ’90s, the key adaptation Jackson made was moving Scottie Pippen to the top of the key and playing Jordan as a forward (in Los Angeles, he made a similar tweak with Lamar Odom and Bryant). But those players would have succeeded in any offense. The real advantage of the Triangle is what it does for players with less ability. Most NBA sets are static; they require perimeter players to create their own shot, usually off the dribble. The Triangle’s relentless off-the-ball movement allows standing jump shooters to contribute within their own preexisting skill set. This is why it worked so well for John Paxson and Steve Kerr, and even for guys like Sasha Vujacic and Luke Walton. You don’t need four or five athletic scorers to make the Triangle work. Two is plenty, because it amplifies the value of role players.

http://grantland.com/features/chuck-klosterman-phil-jackson-tex-winter-death-triangle-offense/

As you make note of our team lacks enough talent at the SG/SF spot while it would be great to have a top PG it's even more important to have a creative SG/SF who can wreak havoc on defenses off the dribble or passing.

3. A gifted Post Big who can not only score a little, rebound and defend, but also pass on a high level, is also a key missing component. It can all come together when you have bigs who can operate in the post and also move the ball. We've talked about the need for highly skilled players throughout the lineup and in this offense it's really important.

+1

Right on....THJ has lately tried to make a conscious effort at getting to the cup. However, he is so in live with the three point shot, he often lazily settles for the 3 ball instead of attacking the paint. When he attacks the paint, he either gets foul or most often then not, he converts a high percentage shot. The key is to forbid THJ from shooting so many 3s.

tj23 wrote:I like certain aspects of the triangle but I'm not convinced it's the best system as a whole. Having the #1 option to throw it down to your center just doesn't seem like a great idea in today's NBA with the center position lacking skill and overall quality. I don't think it always spaces well either. I would like to see some elements cut from the triangle to fit our personnel better and add a few more sets that most NBA teams are using that use some type of off screen that flows into a pick and roll. Overall, I haven't given up on this system. It needs better players and Melo needs to use the rest of the season to keep working on his game within the offense.

The success of the triangle in NY is going to really be about finding that SG/SF who can terrorize defenses. We got nearly nothing from our SG's JR, Shump and THJ and it killed us. Phil simply must find his Wing Studs for this team. One starting Wing to play next to Melo and a Sixth Man Wing who can provide that scoring option off the bench.

Knicks1969 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tj23 wrote:I like certain aspects of the triangle but I'm not convinced it's the best system as a whole. Having the #1 option to throw it down to your center just doesn't seem like a great idea in today's NBA with the center position lacking skill and overall quality. I don't think it always spaces well either. I would like to see some elements cut from the triangle to fit our personnel better and add a few more sets that most NBA teams are using that use some type of off screen that flows into a pick and roll. Overall, I haven't given up on this system. It needs better players and Melo needs to use the rest of the season to keep working on his game within the offense.

The lack of size is part of what led MDA to develop the SSOL system. It is designed to open the middle of the floor so you can attack the basket and also take wide open 3's. This style is easier to teach and fits with many NBA rosters where they don't have a high level post up big. It does need a PnR PG tho, but there are more of them than there are true post C's.

The success of the triangle in NY is going to really be about finding that SG/SF who can terrorize defenses. We got nearly nothing from our SG's JR, Shump and THJ and it killed us. Phil simply must find his Wing Studs for this team. One starting Wing to play next to Melo and a Sixth Man Wing who can provide that scoring option off the bench.

Demar DerozAn would be an excellent fit in the triangle

YUP! His body type and overall skill would be awesome. He can get to the rim with ease and also shoot it well enough to be a threat from the midrange to the basket.

I think Phil is hoping to develop Thanasis and Early into players that can slash to the basket in a similar way. Thanasis need to work on his shooting and Early needs to work on his dribble drive. Both can finish above the rim.

Knicks1969 wrote:

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:If Emmanuel Mudiay could fix his damn jumpshot, he would be another great candidate as he will be able to get into the paint at will.

Russell or Mudiay? I don't know much about Mudiay. Other than utube clips,I bet none of you has ever watched that kid play. Give me Russell

Russell is a perfect fit. Great combination of shooting and creating off the dribble/passing.

Knicks1969 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:If Emmanuel Mudiay could fix his damn jumpshot, he would be another great candidate as he will be able to get into the paint at will.

Russell or Mudiay? I don't know much about Mudiay. Other than utube clips,I bet none of you has ever watched that kid play. Give me Russell

Russell is a perfect fit. Great combination of shooting and creating off the dribble/passing.

Truthfully, before going big, I would much rather select Russell. He is NBA ready and already has the maturity necessary to do very well next to Carmelo. We can always sign a big via free agency.

                                          	FG% on  Total 	Total PTS    Drives 	Player PPG  Team PPG    PTS/48
Player	                Team	GP	MPG     Drives  Drives  on Drives    Per Game   on Drives   on Drives   on Drives
James Harden	        HOU	49	36.4	49.6	516	376	     10.5	7.7	    14.1	10.1
Damian Lillard	        POR	50	36.4	51.7	485	338	     9.7	6.8	    12.3	8.9
Tyreke Evans	        NOP	49	34.8	41.8	613	336	     12.5	6.9	    13.4	9.5
Monta Ellis	        DAL	52	34.0	50.2	470	333	     9.0	6.4	    10.9	9.1
LeBron James	        CLE	41	36.9	54.5	403	325	     9.8	7.9	    11.5	10.3
Jeff Teague	        ATL	47	31.4	43.5	543	310	     11.6	6.6	    12.4	10.1
Kyrie Irving	        CLE	48	37.7	48.1	415	303	     8.6	6.3	    10.6	8.0
Kyle Lowry	        TOR	51	35.1	52.3	414	282	     8.1	5.5	    10.4	7.6
M Carter-Williams       PHI	41	33.9	44.4	495	280	     12.1	6.8	    11.7	9.7
Eric Bledsoe	        PHX	52	33.8	49.7	453	276	     8.7	5.3	    10.5	7.5
Gordon Hayward	        UTA	50	35.1	46.3	348	263	     7.0	5.3	    8.3	        7.2
Ty Lawson	        DEN	49	36.9	45.5	571	253	     11.7	5.2	    13.1	6.7
Kemba Walker	        CHA	42	35.7	43.6	390	251	     9.3	6.0	    10.3	8.0
Derrick Rose	        CHI	39	30.8	51.4	284	250	     7.3	6.4	    9.2	        10.0
Victor Oladipo	        ORL	43	33.9	42.2	409	249	     9.5	5.8	    10.9	8.2
Tony Wroten	        PHI	30	29.8	44.8	311	244	     10.4	8.1	    11.2	13.1
Stephen Curry	        GSW	48	33.3	56.7	292	241	     6.1	5.0	    7.9	        7.2
Russell Westbrook       OKC	36	32.8	41.5	332	240	     9.2	6.7	    10.8	9.8
Mike Conley	        MEM	46	32.1	47.9	346	235	     7.5	5.1	    8.9	        7.6
Reggie Jackson	        OKC	47	28.5	52.2	314	230	     6.7	4.9	    7.9	        8.2
John Wall	        WAS	51	36.0	53.6	369	229	     7.2	4.5	    9.0	        6.0

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:If Emmanuel Mudiay could fix his damn jumpshot, he would be another great candidate as he will be able to get into the paint at will.

I really don't see a jump-shot that looks broken and unfixable. He's got decent enough mechanics (nice mechanics actually from what I've seen) and should be able to only get better. He played in 10 games in China and went 9-30 from 3. Shot close to 50% overall & averaged 17.7 ppg. I won't even bother talking about the small sample size...Look at Iman Shumpert -- right around 30% from 3 all 3 years at G-Tech (about 28% his last yr of college) yet goes on to improve as a 3-pt shooter in the NBA. Why? Because his base shooting mechanics were always sound enough (much similar to Mudiay) and he put in the work to get better. I'm really not worried about Mudiay's shooting -- his mechanics and shooting form looks good -- when you at least have that and don't have to go through some major overhaul in your shooting motion, you should be fine, and I think this kid will be. Another guy to look at -- Marcus Smart, a similar PG to Mudiay. Dude was a sub 30% shooter in college and is now all of a sudden shooting the NBA 3 with confidence--over 35%. Mudiay's shooting mechanics look a hell of a lot cleaner than Smart's imo. Will he be a 3-pt marksman? Probably not, but I really wouldn't worry too much about Mudiay's outside shooting, enough to completely write him off like some are doing. How 'bout the other intangibles -- great size at 6'5" 200+, pure PG (this kid D'Angelo Russell looks like a nice player but hardly a guy I'd call a pure PG -- Mudiay looks like the best pure PG in this draft), strong, quick, good handle, adept penetrator, he'll push it, huge upside, already an advanced enough looking game for someone that young (he doesn't play like a teenager--he looks like a grown man out there), a good-looking passer that plays with his head up, etc.. So many positives -- I can't believe people are just writing this guy off...

nixluva wrote:With Mudiay it's just harder for people to gauge his talent not seeing him play against other NCAA talent. This is why Russell's stock has improved. Watching him play well every week helps his cause. We just need not to strike out in this draft.

This kid Mudiay is not worth a lottery pick. You simply can't pick an unknown player with a lottery selection. He should be a middle to late first rounder at best. There are too many good guards whom have played hard for their respective NCAA teams