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EnySpree
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6/17/2004  9:11 AM
It seems like every time someone wins a championship everyone jumps on bandwagon to that teams sucsess. Like when Chicago was winning everyones focus was trying to stop Jordan rather than build their own team.

Then there is Duncan.....everyone wants that superstar to carry the team. Everyone was on that "tank the season and get draft picks" just to try to get a potential great player.

Then there is LA and everyone was trying to stop Shaq. Everyone needed a bigman just to "Stop Shaq".

The reality is Detroit. Dumars built that team from nothing and didn't focus on getting a superstar, Jordan stopper, Shaq stopper.....

Dumars built a team and focused primarily on defense.
There is no blueprint to how he did it but he did do it. It's a steady process but Dumars brought perfection to the Pistons.

Now everyone and there mother is focused on copying the Pistons by trying to get really good defensive players like this the only thing that can win a championship.


The KnickS have Marbury and have the potential to build a team to fit it's own likeness. There own Identity.

The Knicks should not trade Marbury for Kobe or anything like that. Marbury is the center piece of what Isiah wants to do. Marbury is the type of point guard that controls the flow of the game. You have to run the game through him.

Isiah already got a tall athletic mid-range player that can knock down the three in Timmy.
The focus from my observation is to get Marbury a proper running mate in the backcourt. Houston is only still a Knick because of his contract and injury.
Marbury also needs another option on the wing. Someone to fill the seems and run the pick and roll with him better than just spotting up for jumpers.
Nazr is not a shotblocker but he can run the floor and rebound with the best of them.

These are guys that Isiah brought over since being a Knick. He has his own Blueprint and just like in Jay-Z's album with the same name......No one will be ready for the Takeover.
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diderotn
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6/17/2004  9:15 AM
I agree with you a 100% my brother.
The true Knickabocker..........
djsunyc
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6/17/2004  10:39 AM
exactly. for all we know, the pistons could be a one hit wonder. hey, if jkidd is healthy, the pistons are done in round 2. i think all isiah has to do is acquire the best pieces he can and then hope they gel. that's pretty much what any GM can do.
TMS
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6/17/2004  10:54 AM
make shots, play D, & you win games...seems so easy yet so hard to perfect.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
EnySpree
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6/17/2004  11:31 AM
Posted by TMS:

make shots, play D, & you win games...seems so easy yet so hard to perfect.

You gotta have the pieces to play with each other.

Look at LA. Payton and Malone played themselves cuz they thought that they could just show up and win. The forgot about learning a new system and becoming a teamate instead of the franchise.....

The Lakers run the most boring offense in the land. "The Triangle". Malone is a guy that needs to run and isolate in a pick and role and LA doesn't do that. Karl is used to getting the ball and setting the offense up through him.
Payton is used to dictating the offense and making plays and taking over games.

Even with Detroit before they got Wallace they were not that great defensively. It was Ben and that's it. Sheed came in and was like plaster on a cracked piece of dry wall. He solidified the team with his shotblocking, jumpshot, ability to finnish, his heart and length.

Sheed is perfect for Detroit but I don't think he would do the same in NY. Sheed and Ben are made for each other.
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OasisBU
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6/17/2004  11:31 AM
The problem Isiah would face if he traded Marbury for another high profile player is, he would in effect be changing his blueprint for the team he already started building. When you do that you run into trouble. Since he has been focused on putting a team around Marbs I don't see him getting shipped out of here...even for Kobe. He has to find players in other positions that fit the Knicks now. If he can get a Kobe or a Webber without giving up Steph then he should do it (only if it compliments Steph's style of play).

I think the greatest lesson from this season is that a team full of Hall of Famers and All Stars will not win you a championship. It is about chemistry, coaching, and talent. Not talent alone - adding a name to a team doesnt gurantee a 60 win season and a championship. Even if LA had won, what kind of win would it have been? They are not a team, they are a bunch of individuals who are out for themselves. Isiah needs to build a team that is focused, well coached, and talented. He will pull it off, it is ust going to take some time.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
EnySpree
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6/17/2004  11:50 AM
Posted by OasisBU:

Isiah needs to build a team that is focused, well coached, and talented.

Don't forget they gotta have similiar styles of play.

Marbs needs a big guy to run the pick and role with that could not only hit a jumper but can get to the basket. Kt is money in the bank at 15-18 ft but the defense would rather him get the open shot then Marbury getting the ball back and making the exciting play.

Webber is awesome in that type of game. Webber's whole game in Sacramento is the high post.

Getting Webber in NY now would be a hard sell but Sac seems to play better without Webber. Webb never played a full season in his career either...Sacramento needs an upgrade at Shooting guard, but Houston at his best still would be a really hard sell. Stranger things have happened........
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MaTT4281
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6/17/2004  11:59 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

It seems like every time someone wins a championship everyone jumps on bandwagon to that teams sucsess. Like when Chicago was winning everyones focus was trying to stop Jordan rather than build their own team.

Then there is Duncan.....everyone wants that superstar to carry the team. Everyone was on that "tank the season and get draft picks" just to try to get a potential great player.

Then there is LA and everyone was trying to stop Shaq. Everyone needed a bigman just to "Stop Shaq".

The reality is Detroit. Dumars built that team from nothing and didn't focus on getting a superstar, Jordan stopper, Shaq stopper.....

Dumars built a team and focused primarily on defense.
There is no blueprint to how he did it but he did do it. It's a steady process but Dumars brought perfection to the Pistons.

Now everyone and there mother is focused on copying the Pistons by trying to get really good defensive players like this the only thing that can win a championship.


The KnickS have Marbury and have the potential to build a team to fit it's own likeness. There own Identity.

The Knicks should not trade Marbury for Kobe or anything like that. Marbury is the center piece of what Isiah wants to do. Marbury is the type of point guard that controls the flow of the game. You have to run the game through him.

Isiah already got a tall athletic mid-range player that can knock down the three in Timmy.
The focus from my observation is to get Marbury a proper running mate in the backcourt. Houston is only still a Knick because of his contract and injury.
Marbury also needs another option on the wing. Someone to fill the seems and run the pick and roll with him better than just spotting up for jumpers.
Nazr is not a shotblocker but he can run the floor and rebound with the best of them.

These are guys that Isiah brought over since being a Knick. He has his own Blueprint and just like in Jay-Z's album with the same name......No one will be ready for the Takeover.

all i can say is, best post i have read in a while
tkf
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6/17/2004  12:19 PM
excellent post enyspree, I agree, who knows the pistons may be a one hit wonder, I can just look at the nets team of a couple of years ago, had they faced this weaker laker team instead of the stronger one of a few years ago, maybe the nets would have won a championship also... I think the key is to find a identity( as you mentioned) and perfect it, try to impose your will, your style of play upon the other team.. If you can do that, you can win..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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6/17/2004  12:22 PM
Detroits formula off court was flexability. Cap room, tradable assets and youth.

That why having cap room is important. We need to stop taking on salary and grow our own talent. Assets!
newyorknewyork
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6/17/2004  1:05 PM
Defense in the playoffs allways wins though. U might not need to have a lock down defense like the Pistons to win. But in the 4th quarter u need to have a team that gets important stops.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
EnySpree
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6/17/2004  1:19 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Detroits formula off court was flexability. Cap room, tradable assets and youth.

That why having cap room is important. We need to stop taking on salary and grow our own talent. Assets!

Knicks gotta just focus on making the team better. It's not like Detroit tanked any season....they never tried to cut cap.

Chancey and Rip for one were castaways....Rip still gets the comment that he needs to bulk up....Chancey is supposed to be a terrible shoot first point guard with no playmaking skill. Chancey ran that team. He called the plays every time down the court and had ice in his veins....plus he was in constant conversation with Larry Brown. Richard just focused on his game and that is run.

What is the cap room for anyway? Too spend it on one big name just to ride him to his knees or back or ankles breakdown?

Right away the Knicks have a far better point guard that Chancey. Man the Knicks have Marbury! If the Knicks can just focus on getting the right players around him the Knicks will be in the Championship and teams will be trying to copy the Knicks!

Rahim on the wing with Timmy on the other....add maybe Crawford or Stephen Jackson or Quinten Rich.....with a fleet of good role players like Nazr, Sweetney, Penny, Frank.....

When you see well put together team it's one of the most special things you can see in life. Showtime Lakers, Moses' in Philly, Birds teams in the 80's, The Original Bad Boys.......even guys that never won.....like when the Knicks had X-man and Gerald Wilkins and them or thos Kemp and Payton teams in Seattle.

Beautiful basketball....you just know it when you see it. I can't even imagine being on one of those teams.
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OasisBU
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6/17/2004  1:29 PM
Hypotheticaly speaking.......

And I dont want trade rumors to start because this is just a fans idea....

But what if the Knicks could get Iverson in the backcourt with Marbury? Could you imagine the 2 little guys running circles around the competiton? Has Iverson mellowed out a little? Can he and Marbury share the ball? I think they would have decent chemistry together.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
EnySpree
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6/17/2004  1:43 PM
Posted by OasisBU:

Hypotheticaly speaking.......

And I dont want trade rumors to start because this is just a fans idea....

But what if the Knicks could get Iverson in the backcourt with Marbury? Could you imagine the 2 little guys running circles around the competiton? Has Iverson mellowed out a little? Can he and Marbury share the ball? I think they would have decent chemistry together.

Damn I got to get off the computer. Get an off day and you lose all track of time.

I mentioned on the Dailynews forum when that was up, a Houston for Iverson trade.

Right now that wouldn't seem so bad cuz Iverson obviously is not appreciated over there. All it takes is Iverson saying he wants to be traded. The only thing that would be a big deal right now is the love Philly has for Ivo. Houston is too soft for grimey Philly. I would think that Philly would try to get Kobe for Iverson.

About the Marbury/Ivo back court? That would be the modern day Clyde and Pearl(aka Black Jesus). Talk about history. With both of them there how would you stop the ball like New Jersey tried to do with Marbury in the playoffs? Iverson is an above average ball handler and he is a great passer and simply unguardable. Just like Marbs.

Ah man don't make me cry....that just would be awesome.

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OasisBU
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6/17/2004  1:53 PM
Yeah I would love to see it too...more then seeing Kobe or T-Mac here - but these are just pipe dreams.

"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
Nalod
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6/17/2004  5:11 PM
Ah man don't make me cry....that just would be awesome.

"Show them you Motto!"
Ray15
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6/17/2004  11:43 PM
Posted by EnySpree:


Knicks gotta just focus on making the team better. It's not like Detroit tanked any season....they never tried to cut cap.


Rahim on the wing with Timmy on the other....add maybe Crawford or Stephen Jackson or Quinten Rich.....with a fleet of good role players like Nazr, Sweetney, Penny, Frank.....

When you see well put together team it's one of the most special things you can see in life. Showtime Lakers, Moses' in Philly, Birds teams in the 80's, The Original Bad Boys.......even guys that never won.....like when the Knicks had X-man and Gerald Wilkins and them or thos Kemp and Payton teams in Seattle.

Beautiful basketball....you just know it when you see it. I can't even imagine being on one of those teams.


I like the originality of this thread. Everybody does copy the champions blueprint, and I'm not excluding myself from this. However, every championship team that I can remember have been unbelievable defensively. Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman were probably the three best defenders in the NBA at the time. Bowen, Duncan, Robinson are all great defenders. Kobe is up there with the best perimter defenders and Shaq (when he puts effort in) is a great defender as well. And now this Pistons team was clearly a great defensive team. We need perimeter defenders and shotblockers.

A team of Marbury, Crawford, TT, Rahim, Nazr would resemble the Mavs more than any other team in the league. None of these players are good defenders. Marbury and Nazr are average and the rest are below average. You don't win like that.
Defense and Toughness
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