TripleThreat wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:If were are not tanking on purpose, than what exactly does that say about the future
Phil basically pulled the plug on the season but the Knicks didn't have to actually try to tank in order to be in the running for the top pick. Even with the wins the team is still in the running for the top pick. It's also important to continue to develop players and to establish a culture with the time remaining. It's clear that the process is starting to take hold since the trade and that's a good thing.
We can't control which pick we end up with but Phil can continue to look for role players who can be part of the franchise going forward. We still have the Trade Deadline, the Draft and Free Agency ahead of us. It's an ongoing process to find and develop talent so there's no reason to panic about comments from Fish and Melo at this point. As I keep stressing the point that Phil has made numerous statement about how he envisions remaking this team. He hasn't been talking like a man looking to blow all assets simply to land one big name player.
Things you consistently ignore to address, in any fashion, whatsoever. Except to frontload Phil Jackson quotes at us all.
1) Phil Jackson is a 70 year old FIRST TIME NBA General Manager. Being a general manager and being a head coach are completely different animals in terms of job function and job description. It should tell you something that in EVERY MAJOR SPORT, occasionally an owner will give a head coach essentially full GM powers, and aside from a rare Bill Belichick situation ( and you could argue that Belichick the coach saves Belichick the GM many times), it rarely works out. There is no clear line of succession, there is no hotshot young gun being groomed.
Meanwhile the rest of the league is stocked to the gills with young hotshot GMs who paid their dues in blood in the front office trenches, have actual experience in the field with scouting players, dealing with agents, dealing with owners, dealing with the media, researching existing rosters, mining international talent pools, etc, etc.
In five years, Zen Master is likely gone from the Knicks. In ten years, he could be dead. In five to ten years, guys like Sam Hinkie, Ryan McDonough, Sam Presti, Daryl Morey, Rich Cho and such will still be stockpiling assets for their teams.
2) The Knicks currently have IMHO the least talented 15 man roster in the ENTIRE league. Take a look at even last year's lottery teams, and many of their 2nd unit guys and even 3rd unit guys would be STARTERS on the Knicks right now. The talent base is so poor that guys who can't crack the 15 man unit on most other rosters are STARTING NOW for the current Knicks. Most of this roster won't be here in a year or two years. The Knicks are burning precious minutes on guys who won't move the needle for them in the future.
The guys who WILL BE AROUND will be Melo, Calderon ( with his ugly contract) and Tim Hardaway Jr. That's some ugly defense right there. Truly ugly. None of them are critical rim protecting pivots or two way defensive wings critical to the modern game. Two of those player are making a heavy choke in the existing cap.
3) Phil Jackson is engaging in "coach speak" which you take literally. What else is he going to say. The ONE SKILL he does have and has proven is how to use the media and manipulate the media. What else can he say but semi vague throwaway comments that can't be twisted into some kind of headline against him?
4) The Knicks have no 2016 picks. And several future 2nds after that are gone as well. There will be a critical gap between a talent reload potential through the NBA Draft.
5) Every other trade asset aside from Melo and future draft picks is GONE.
6) The Chandler trade has blown up in the Knick's faces. Even Wayne Ellington is shooting near 40 percent from behind the arc for the Lakers now. Dalembert was paid to go away. Larkin on a cheap deal was told to keep packing his gear for the offseason. Calderon has been hurt and showing his age. Plus his ugly contract. Early is too raw to even get on the floor, and the other pick is so raw he's still in the D League.
You're a so called "optimist" because you'd rather read press clipping and coach speak than look at the actual situation. Previous posts show you have limited to almost no understanding of the modern CBA and salary cap and how the NBA's internal marketplace works.
You keep talking about a "process" without looking at the practical systematic limitations of the NBA team building/rebuilding structure.
- Height and athleticism requirements dwindle the potential talent pool against the ENTIRE HUMAN POPULATION to an insanely small pool.
- The league, despite international expansion and robbing the college ranks, don't have enough talent to balance out true parity to support the number of teams and roster spots out there.
- The draft is only 2 rounds, with only a handful of the top picks in the first round, MAYBE being able to change a franchise's direction
- Because of the small talent pool, the nature of contracts are guaranteed, complicating any rebuild process ( take your pick of team killing deals like Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas, STAT, etc, etc)
- Teams have leverage over the first SEVEN years of a first round drafted player's career. Actual impact free agents hit the market only so often, mostly they are chased by many teams and usually park themselves in a destination city ( one advantage NY has)
It takes a LONG TIME to rebuild an NBA team, esp from the dregs of the current Knicks situation. It's not what anyone here wants, but it's what the reality is going to be. A LONG TIME isn't a great formula for a 70 year old first time GM trying to implement a complex offensive system on roster churn and previously low IQ players that has failed everywhere else except by having 2 of the top 5 NBA players at the given time and place.
If you want to bury your head in the sand, then that's on you. But it's your needling passive aggressive condescending tone where you play victim, because you haven't changed your tampon yet, that I think is really a load of happy horse ****. You're not an "optimist" in my book. You're a textbook example of the kind of mindset it takes to join a cult, let some long haired hippie religious freak bang your wife and have you thank him for it and then get convinced it's a good idea to live on a compound then get into a massive firefight with the ATF or any heavily armed government three letter acronym of your choosing. Some people just drink the Kool Aid, you literally bathe in it.
Denial is also a process.
You make some very valid points but in making your very defeatist "realist" points you are assuming that nothing goes right for the Knicks over the next few years. My problem with you and the other guys in your crew who talk about doom and gloom for this franchise, is that you are looking at the present situation and assuming that nothing will improve. None of our prospects will improve. We won't get a good player in the draft or outside of the draft. Phil won't be able to add any picks. Phil won't be able to add any quality Free Agents. Phil himself will never find any success in rebuilding the team and laying the foundation for long after he's gone.
You wrote a very nice long post as usual, but it's filled with a lot of facts that have no impact on the future!!! We know what went wrong but that doesn't mean that the future is doomed to fail. It's not impossible to get 2nd rd picks. We are missing a 1st in 2016, but we do have our pick this year and every year after 2016.
You wrote about the "practical systematic limitations of NBA team Building" and yes those things are a problem, but they are not insurmountable as you are implying. It just a laundry list of negativity, but not a guarantee that Phil won't be successful in finding the right players to put together a good team. It doesn't all have to be done at once. He's doing a little this season and this summer and much of what we need can be brought in during this time. He will have opportunities in the draft and in Free Agency. He won't need stars at every position. Phil knows this isn't going to be easy or necessarily a quick fix. Phil has a clear vision of the kind of players he will be looking for and for once we have a leader who should be free to make decisions based on Basketball.
